VOGONS


First post, by byte_76

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I’ve got my hands on a Tekram P6PRO-A5 ver. 1.01

The board has an issue with one of the ram slots closest to the chipset and the floppy controller does not work.

When a memory module is installed into that first slot, the board beeps at power-on and won’t POST.

I checked for broken traces and missing surface mount components but did not find any damage.

There are no bent contacts in the ram slots and there does not appear to be any visible dirt but I’ll do a thorough clean later.

Does anyone know how to remove those white clips on the ram slots? I can get them from a spare parts board.

What should I be looking for in this case?

Last edited by byte_76 on 2025-04-23, 10:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 15, by byte_76

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I’ve cleaned the board thoroughly and done a detailed inspection under a microscope but haven’t found any damage.

What could be causing the first ram slot not to work?

Could it be related to the floppy port that is not working either?

Reply 2 of 15, by byte_76

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Is there such a thing as an SDRAM slot tester that I could insert into the faulty slot to try to determine which contacts have an issue?

With such a diagnostic, I could follow the traces to see if I can find components that are faulty.

The memory slot that has an issue is the one closest to the north bridge.
It’s possible that there is a broken solder joint under the bridge, in which case I will not be able to fix it but it would be helpful to narrow down the fault rather than making such assumptions.

Reply 3 of 15, by byte_76

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I have measured each and every pin of the faulty memory slot to ground and the readings are the same as the other slots.

Why would this one slot cause the system to beep repeatedly and not POST, while the other two slots work just fine?

The only other slightly unusual thing is a whistle or whine from the coil behind the CPU slot, nearest to the AGP port.

I would really like to fix this board. Please help!

Reply 4 of 15, by SSTV2

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This motherboard was the one I had in the early 2000s with a 700MHz Pentium III, still have it, but avoid using for a build.

SDRAM slots are basically wired in parallel, except for some control signals like /WE, /CSx, /CAS, CKx (clock) etc. Compare the data (64) and address (14) bus pins of the first slot with the pins of the other slots, they should all be wired in parallel, if everything is fine here, then the problem is somewhere in the control or clock signals. I recommend checking pins from the top of the slots, not the bottom, this way you'll be sure that there are no cracked/dry solder joints.

SDRAM pinout site, the 72 ECC column should match the SDRAM slot pinout of this motherboard.

Reply 5 of 15, by byte_76

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SSTV2 wrote on 2025-04-24, 03:16:

This motherboard was the one I had in the early 2000s with a 700MHz Pentium III, still have it, but avoid using for a build.

SDRAM slots are basically wired in parallel, except for some control signals like /WE, /CSx, /CAS, CKx (clock) etc. Compare the data (64) and address (14) bus pins of the first slot with the pins of the other slots, they should all be wired in parallel, if everything is fine here, then the problem is somewhere in the control or clock signals. I recommend checking pins from the top of the slots, not the bottom, this way you'll be sure that there are no cracked/dry solder joints.

SDRAM pinout site, the 72 ECC column should match the SDRAM slot pinout of this motherboard.

Thanks for the info and the link.

Since the slots are wired in parallel, would it be a fair assumption that the connections are good under the north bridge because the other two slots are working?

With the board not powered, I did measure the contacts of the slots from the top the other day and compared the results to the other slots. The readings were the same but I’ll do it again.

Which components on this board would be part of the control and clock signals? I’d like to check the components to see if I can find anything strange.

I’m waiting on an oscilloscope that I ordered. Hopefully it will help.

Out of interest, why do you avoid using the board in a build? It seems like a nice board. Did you have some issues with it?

Reply 6 of 15, by SSTV2

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byte_76 wrote on 2025-04-24, 05:49:

Since the slots are wired in parallel, would it be a fair assumption that the connections are good under the north bridge because the other two slots are working?

With the board not powered, I did measure the contacts of the slots from the top the other day and compared the results to the other slots. The readings were the same but I’ll do it again.

Yes, at least all solder joints for the slots 2 and 3 are all connected, so are the data/address buses and all the essential control signals related to them.

If slot 1 produced absolutely identical readings, compared to the other slots with the relation to ground, then cracked solder joints/vias are unlikely.

These old BGA chipsets rarely develop cracked solder joins on their own, usually it's the external forces that cause them, eg. warping of the board. Looking at the datasheet (pg. 12-17), you can notice that the majority of the DRAM bus connections are located at the opposite corner from the key pin, I'd investigate that quadrant more thoroughly. You can try pushing that corner down while simultaneously resetting the system.

byte_76 wrote on 2025-04-24, 05:49:

Which components on this board would be part of the control and clock signals? I’d like to check the components to see if I can find anything strange.

Control signals come from the northbridge, while clock is derived from the clock generator IC "ICS9148-58", there are 4 clock signals coming from it per slot - SDRAM[0:11].

byte_76 wrote on 2025-04-24, 05:49:

Out of interest, why do you avoid using the board in a build? It seems like a nice board. Did you have some issues with it?

It definitely is a nice board in terms of quality, layout and especially its clock generator's wide range clock output settings, but it uses a VIA "Apollo Pro" chipset which doesn't deliver a good perfomance compared to the 440LX/BX chipsets from intel, the memory performance is worse and AGP implementation is bad. True AGP cards (the ones that support AGP features) like TNTs Geforce or Radeon lineup will have all sorts of problems with these early slot1 VIA chipsets and their AGP GART drivers + performance will be degraded. I remember that my 700MHz pentium III OC'ed to 864MHz performed more or less like a 450MHz PII that my friend had at the time in D3D/OGL games, we both had GF4 video cards, except he had a 440BX based MB.

You can find many benchmark comparisons on the net between these VIA chipsets and intel 440 ones, I did one not too long ago, if you are interested I might unearth and post it here.

Reply 7 of 15, by byte_76

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Okay so testing each pin of the memory slots from the top gives me near identical readings for all slots. I cannot find anything suspicious there.

Pressing on the north bridge while resetting the system has no effect at all. Pressing around the board also seems to have no effect.

I've cleaned a small amount of dirt between the pins of the clock generator and otherwise the board is practically spotless.

I mentioned it earlier in the thread but the floppy drive is also not working. It reports "Floppy Disk(s) fail (C0)"

I'm not sure what else to check.

I wonder how likely it is that the clock generator is faulty, considering that the board is otherwise working. (Just the one memory slot and the floppy drive that have issues, otherwise all good!)

Reply 8 of 15, by SSTV2

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byte_76 wrote on 2025-04-24, 19:28:

Okay so testing each pin of the memory slots from the top gives me near identical readings for all slots. I cannot find anything suspicious there.

It's the same pins on different sockets that should be checked for continuity, not any other way, e.g. pin 2 of slot1 and pin 2 of slot3 (Data 0) and so forth, until all of the data and address bus pins checks out. If there are no problems, then we can conclude that the problem lies somewhere in the control or clock lines. It's a tedious task, but it's the only way to eliminate faulty connections at this moment.

I pulled out my board and checked the clock path to the 1st slot, this is how it's connected to the clock generator IC.

Clock gen. -> SDRAM

18-SD10 -> 42-CK0
17-SD11 -> 125-CK1
37-SD1 -> 79-CK2
38-SD0 -> 163-CK3

Clock gen. and SDRAM slots are separated by series termination resistors in resistor network packages, those resistors are 10 Ohm in value and are marked as "100", see if they are not open.

Regarding the floppy error, if floppy itself and cable are known good, then there might be a problem either with traces that lead to the super I/O chip or super I/O chip's FDC interface is damaged. Set DMM to continuity mode and see if everything is fine in that long trace path, FDC connector should connect directly to that chip. See pages 17-18.

Reply 9 of 15, by byte_76

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SSTV2 wrote on 2025-04-24, 22:33:
It's the same pins on different sockets that should be checked for continuity, not any other way, e.g. pin 2 of slot1 and pin 2 […]
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byte_76 wrote on 2025-04-24, 19:28:

Okay so testing each pin of the memory slots from the top gives me near identical readings for all slots. I cannot find anything suspicious there.

It's the same pins on different sockets that should be checked for continuity, not any other way, e.g. pin 2 of slot1 and pin 2 of slot3 (Data 0) and so forth, until all of the data and address bus pins checks out. If there are no problems, then we can conclude that the problem lies somewhere in the control or clock lines. It's a tedious task, but it's the only way to eliminate faulty connections at this moment.

I pulled out my board and checked the clock path to the 1st slot, this is how it's connected to the clock generator IC.

Clock gen. -> SDRAM

18-SD10 -> 42-CK0
17-SD11 -> 125-CK1
37-SD1 -> 79-CK2
38-SD0 -> 163-CK3

Clock gen. and SDRAM slots are separated by series termination resistors in resistor network packages, those resistors are 10 Ohm in value and are marked as "100", see if they are not open.

Regarding the floppy error, if floppy itself and cable are known good, then there might be a problem either with traces that lead to the super I/O chip or super I/O chip's FDC interface is damaged. Set DMM to continuity mode and see if everything is fine in that long trace path, FDC connector should connect directly to that chip. See pages 17-18.

Alright, I've done the same measurements to check the path from Memory Slot 1 --> Clock Gen for those 4 pins and in each case, I get a measurement of 10-ohms.

Between each slot, the matching pins numbers have continuity except the following:

108 nc
109 nc
111 /cas
114 /chip select
115 /ras
125 CK1
129 /s3
134 nc
135 nc
136 nc
137 nc
145 nc
146 vref
163 /clk
164 nc
165 resistance between pins
166 almost no resistance between slot 1 & 2 but increasing resistance between 2 & 3
168 VDD
24 nc
25 nc
26 VDD
28 DQMB1
42 CK0
45 Chip Select
48 Not Used
50 nc
51 nc
61 nc
62 nc
79 resistance between pins
80 nc
81 nc

Reply 10 of 15, by SSTV2

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I see 2 possible problems:

Pin 28 "DQMB1" must be connected as in the rest of the slots and pin 79 of "CK2", there should be no resistance between the pins, if you get a resistive reading, something is shunting that clock signal. Take a good look at those resistor networks near the clock generator or in between clock generator's legs, residual dirt can create a current path there. What resistance reading do you get there, by the way?

Pin 26 "VDD" should also be connected, but if it's not then don't worry about it, because VDD pins are commonly connected on the RAM module.

Reply 11 of 15, by byte_76

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Just to be clear, I am measuring between matching PIN numbers of slot 1 and slot2 and again slot 1 and slot 3 and also, just to compare, I'm measuring between slot 2 and slot 3

I've re-checked pins 26 and 28 and confirmed continuity to their matching pins in the other slots. Must have been a bad connection of the leads last time.

Pins 79 causes my multimeter in Auto mode to switch between OL and resistance of around 40 M ohm. It jumps back and forth rapidly. However, on resistance mode, it's OL.

I get 10 ohms on those resistor packs around the Clock Gen.
I've also made absolutely sure that the gaps between the pins of the clock gen are clean.

Reply 12 of 15, by SSTV2

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It seems that all the main signals are connected to the northbridge and are in working order, so now we are left with the control signals and perhaps clock.

I summarised the readings of a DIMM slot for this M/B and measured the voltage drop across control and clock pins (positive DMM probe on ground, negative on pins), see if you get any discrepancies there, it's possible that one of those signals are shunting to ground (blown port in the northbridge).

Pin 			Description

+1C VSS Ground
+2C DQ0 Data 0
+3C DQ1 Data 1
+4C DQ2 Data 2
+5C DQ3 Data 3
+6C VDD +3.3 VDC
+7C DQ4 Data 4
+8C DQ5 Data 5
+9C DQ6 Data 6
+10C DQ7 Data 7
===
+11C DQ8 Data 8
+12C VSS Ground
+13C DQ9 Data 9
+14C DQ10 Data 10
+15C DQ11 Data 11
+16C DQ12 Data 12
+17C DQ13 Data 13
+18C VDD +3.3 VDC
+19C DQ14 Data 14
+20C DQ15 Data 15
+21C CB0 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 0
+22C CB1 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 01
+23C VSS Ground
+24 n/c Not connected
+25 n/c Not connected
+26C VDD +3.3 VDC
?27 /WE Write Enable 600mV
+28C DQMB0 Byte Mask signal 0
+29C DQMB1 Byte Mask signal 1
?30 /CS0 Chip Select 0 700mV
+31C DU Don't Use
+32C VSS Ground
+33C A0 Address 0
+34C A2 Address 2
+35C A4 Address 4
+36C A6 Address 6
+37C A8 Address 8
+38C A10/AP Address 10
+39C BA1 Bank Address 1
+40C VDD +3.3 VDC
===
+41C VDD +3.3 VDC
?42 CK0 Clock signal 0 690mV
+43C VSS Ground
+44C DU Don't Use
?45 /CS2 Chip Select 2 710mV
+46C DQMB2 Byte Mask signal 2
+47C DQMB3 Byte Mask signal 3
+48 DU Don't Use
+49C VDD +3.3 VDC
+50 n/c Not connected
+51 n/c Not connected
+52C CB2 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 2
+53C CB3 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 3
+54C VSS Ground
+55C DQ16 Data 16
+56C DQ17 Data 17
Show last 117 lines
+57C 	DQ18 	Data 18
+58C DQ19 Data 19
+59C VDD +3.3 VDC
+60C DQ20 Data 20
+61 n/c Not connected
+62 n/c Not connected
+63C CKE1 Clock Enable Signal 1
+64C VSS Ground
+65C DQ21 Data 21
+66C DQ22 Data 22
+67C DQ23 Data 23
+68C VSS Ground
+69C DQ24 Data 24
+70C DQ25 Data 25
+71C DQ26 Data 26
+72C DQ27 Data 27
+73C VDD +3.3 VDC
+74C DQ28 Data 28
+75C DQ29 Data 29
+76C DQ30 Data 30
+77C DQ31 Data 31
+78C VSS Ground
?79 CK2 Clock signal 2 690mV
+80 n/c Not connected
+81 n/c Not connected
+82C SDA Serial Data
+83C SCL Serial Clock
+84C VDD +3.3 VDC
...
+85C VSS Ground
+86C DQ32 Data 32
+87C DQ33 Data 33
+88C DQ34 Data 34
+89C DQ35 Data 35
+90C VDD +3.3 VDC
+91C DQ36 Data 36
+92C DQ37 Data 37
+93C DQ38 Data 38
+94C DQ39 Data 39
===
+95C DQ40 Data 40
+96C VSS Ground
+97C DQ41 Data 41
+98C DQ42 Data 42
+99C DQ43 Data 43
+100C DQ44 Data 44
+101C DQ45 Data 45
+102C VDD +3.3 VDC
+103C DQ46 Data 46
+104C DQ47 Data 47
+105C CB4 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 4
+106C CB5 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 5
+107C VSS Ground
+108 n/c Not connected
+109 n/c Not connected
+110C VDD +3.3 VDC
?111 /CAS Column Address Strobe 600mV
+112C DQMB4 Byte Mask signal 4
+113C DQMB5 Byte Mask signal 5
?114 /CS1 Chip Select 1 710
?115 /RAS Row Address Strobe 600mV
+116C VSS Ground
+117C A1 Address 1
+118C A3 Address 3
+119C A5 Address 5
+120C A7 Address 7
+121C A9 Address 9
+122C BA0 Bank Address 0
+123C A11 Address 11
+124C VDD +3.3 VDC
===
?125 CK1 Clock signal 1 690mV
+126C A12 Address 12
+127C VSS Ground
+128C CKE0 Clock Enable Signal 0
?129 /CS3 Chip Select 3 710mV
+130C DQMB6 Byte Mask signal 6
+131C DQMB7 Byte Mask signal 7
+132C A13 Address 13
+133C VDD +3.3 VDC
+134 n/c Not connected
+135 n/c Not connected
+136 n/c Not connected
+137 n/c Not connected
+138C VSS Ground
+139C DQ48 Data 48
+140C DQ49 Data 49
+141C DQ50 Data 50
+142C DQ51 Data 51
+143C VDD +3.3 VDC
+144C DQ52 Data 52
+145 n/c Not connected
+146 n/c Not connected
+147 n/c Not connected
+148C VSS Ground
+149C DQ53 Data 53
+150C DQ54 Data 54
+151C DQ55 Data 55
+152C VSS Ground
+153C DQ56 Data 56
+154C DQ57 Data 57
+155C DQ58 Data 58
+156C DQ59 Data 59
+157C VDD +3.3 VDC
+158C DQ60 Data 60
+159C DQ61 Data 61
+160C DQ62 Data 62
+161C DQ63 Data 63
+162C VSS Ground
?163 CK3 Clock signal 3 690mV
+164 n/c Not connected
+165 SA0 Serial address 0
+166 SA1 Serial address 1
+167 SA2 Serial address 2
+168 VDD +3.3 VDC

Serial addresses are hardwired to VSS or VDD for each slot specifically.

The "+" here means that this pin is OK, "C" means continuity between the same pins on different slots, "?" - focus your attention on these now. Voltage drop readings obtained using diode mode.

Reply 13 of 15, by byte_76

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SSTV2 wrote on 2025-04-26, 13:25:
It seems that all the main signals are connected to the northbridge and are in working order, so now we are left with the contro […]
Show full quote

It seems that all the main signals are connected to the northbridge and are in working order, so now we are left with the control signals and perhaps clock.

I summarised the readings of a DIMM slot for this M/B and measured the voltage drop across control and clock pins (positive DMM probe on ground, negative on pins), see if you get any discrepancies there, it's possible that one of those signals are shunting to ground (blown port in the northbridge).

Pin 			Description

+1C VSS Ground
+2C DQ0 Data 0
+3C DQ1 Data 1
+4C DQ2 Data 2
+5C DQ3 Data 3
+6C VDD +3.3 VDC
+7C DQ4 Data 4
+8C DQ5 Data 5
+9C DQ6 Data 6
+10C DQ7 Data 7
===
+11C DQ8 Data 8
+12C VSS Ground
+13C DQ9 Data 9
+14C DQ10 Data 10
+15C DQ11 Data 11
+16C DQ12 Data 12
+17C DQ13 Data 13
+18C VDD +3.3 VDC
+19C DQ14 Data 14
+20C DQ15 Data 15
+21C CB0 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 0
+22C CB1 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 01
+23C VSS Ground
+24 n/c Not connected
+25 n/c Not connected
+26C VDD +3.3 VDC
?27 /WE Write Enable 600mV
+28C DQMB0 Byte Mask signal 0
+29C DQMB1 Byte Mask signal 1
?30 /CS0 Chip Select 0 700mV
+31C DU Don't Use
+32C VSS Ground
+33C A0 Address 0
+34C A2 Address 2
+35C A4 Address 4
+36C A6 Address 6
+37C A8 Address 8
+38C A10/AP Address 10
+39C BA1 Bank Address 1
+40C VDD +3.3 VDC
===
+41C VDD +3.3 VDC
?42 CK0 Clock signal 0 690mV
+43C VSS Ground
+44C DU Don't Use
?45 /CS2 Chip Select 2 710mV
+46C DQMB2 Byte Mask signal 2
+47C DQMB3 Byte Mask signal 3
+48 DU Don't Use
+49C VDD +3.3 VDC
+50 n/c Not connected
+51 n/c Not connected
+52C CB2 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 2
+53C CB3 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 3
+54C VSS Ground
+55C DQ16 Data 16
+56C DQ17 Data 17
Show last 117 lines
+57C 	DQ18 	Data 18
+58C DQ19 Data 19
+59C VDD +3.3 VDC
+60C DQ20 Data 20
+61 n/c Not connected
+62 n/c Not connected
+63C CKE1 Clock Enable Signal 1
+64C VSS Ground
+65C DQ21 Data 21
+66C DQ22 Data 22
+67C DQ23 Data 23
+68C VSS Ground
+69C DQ24 Data 24
+70C DQ25 Data 25
+71C DQ26 Data 26
+72C DQ27 Data 27
+73C VDD +3.3 VDC
+74C DQ28 Data 28
+75C DQ29 Data 29
+76C DQ30 Data 30
+77C DQ31 Data 31
+78C VSS Ground
?79 CK2 Clock signal 2 690mV
+80 n/c Not connected
+81 n/c Not connected
+82C SDA Serial Data
+83C SCL Serial Clock
+84C VDD +3.3 VDC
...
+85C VSS Ground
+86C DQ32 Data 32
+87C DQ33 Data 33
+88C DQ34 Data 34
+89C DQ35 Data 35
+90C VDD +3.3 VDC
+91C DQ36 Data 36
+92C DQ37 Data 37
+93C DQ38 Data 38
+94C DQ39 Data 39
===
+95C DQ40 Data 40
+96C VSS Ground
+97C DQ41 Data 41
+98C DQ42 Data 42
+99C DQ43 Data 43
+100C DQ44 Data 44
+101C DQ45 Data 45
+102C VDD +3.3 VDC
+103C DQ46 Data 46
+104C DQ47 Data 47
+105C CB4 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 4
+106C CB5 Parity/Check Bit Input/Output 5
+107C VSS Ground
+108 n/c Not connected
+109 n/c Not connected
+110C VDD +3.3 VDC
?111 /CAS Column Address Strobe 600mV
+112C DQMB4 Byte Mask signal 4
+113C DQMB5 Byte Mask signal 5
?114 /CS1 Chip Select 1 710
?115 /RAS Row Address Strobe 600mV
+116C VSS Ground
+117C A1 Address 1
+118C A3 Address 3
+119C A5 Address 5
+120C A7 Address 7
+121C A9 Address 9
+122C BA0 Bank Address 0
+123C A11 Address 11
+124C VDD +3.3 VDC
===
?125 CK1 Clock signal 1 690mV
+126C A12 Address 12
+127C VSS Ground
+128C CKE0 Clock Enable Signal 0
?129 /CS3 Chip Select 3 710mV
+130C DQMB6 Byte Mask signal 6
+131C DQMB7 Byte Mask signal 7
+132C A13 Address 13
+133C VDD +3.3 VDC
+134 n/c Not connected
+135 n/c Not connected
+136 n/c Not connected
+137 n/c Not connected
+138C VSS Ground
+139C DQ48 Data 48
+140C DQ49 Data 49
+141C DQ50 Data 50
+142C DQ51 Data 51
+143C VDD +3.3 VDC
+144C DQ52 Data 52
+145 n/c Not connected
+146 n/c Not connected
+147 n/c Not connected
+148C VSS Ground
+149C DQ53 Data 53
+150C DQ54 Data 54
+151C DQ55 Data 55
+152C VSS Ground
+153C DQ56 Data 56
+154C DQ57 Data 57
+155C DQ58 Data 58
+156C DQ59 Data 59
+157C VDD +3.3 VDC
+158C DQ60 Data 60
+159C DQ61 Data 61
+160C DQ62 Data 62
+161C DQ63 Data 63
+162C VSS Ground
?163 CK3 Clock signal 3 690mV
+164 n/c Not connected
+165 SA0 Serial address 0
+166 SA1 Serial address 1
+167 SA2 Serial address 2
+168 VDD +3.3 VDC

Serial addresses are hardwired to VSS or VDD for each slot specifically.

The "+" here means that this pin is OK, "C" means continuity between the same pins on different slots, "?" - focus your attention on these now. Voltage drop readings obtained using diode mode.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly but here's my feedback:

I put my multimeter into diode mode and connected the positive lead to the ground on one of the molex connectors.

Using the negative lead, I measured the pins that you marked with a question mark and I got these readings:

Unless otherwise stated, the readings were consistent on same pins across the 3 slots

27 0.0v
30 0.0v
42 0.500v (0.0v on slots 2 & 3)
45 0.0v
79 0.0v
111 0.555
114 0.0v
115 0.555v
125 0.529 (0.0v on slots 2 & 3)
129 -3.473
163 1.773v.

Reply 14 of 15, by SSTV2

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Strange readings, the motherboard was off, right?

Reply 15 of 15, by byte_76

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Yes, sorry, I assumed we needed power to measure voltage.
I have very little experience with electronics so really just doing this blindly without understanding what we’re doing.

I’ll take those measurements again today after work.