DracoNihil wrote on 2025-06-30, 11:54:

I don't understand why we're having this drama over a fictitious video game...

Because the fictious video game establishes the notion of "soviet" as being normal and acceptable.
It's the very same as ditching the measles vaccines, just in mental plain.
You do not recognize the danger, yet you invite the promotion of dangerous forces.

DracoNihil wrote on 2025-06-30, 11:54:

I don't understand why we're having this drama over a fictitious video game...

One night with the russian rockets over your head launched from the war-planes with red stars on their wings... Quickly make you more understandable(((

Grzyb wrote on 2025-06-30, 11:37:

"The Sovietborgs will free you... from your freedom"

Seems like criticism to me...

Exactly on point. The game is obviously satire. It has green monsters ffs.

vstrakh wrote on 2025-06-30, 12:05:

Because the fictious video game establishes the notion of "soviet" as being normal and acceptable. It's the very same as ditchin […]
Show full quote

DracoNihil wrote on 2025-06-30, 11:54:

I don't understand why we're having this drama over a fictitious video game...

Because the fictious video game establishes the notion of "soviet" as being normal and acceptable.
It's the very same as ditching the measles vaccines, just in mental plain.
You do not recognize the danger, yet you invite the promotion of dangerous forces.

What do you mean by "soviet"?
Are you referring to people who support communism? Because what this game is doing is basically criticizing communism (in a very ignorant way, IMO).

Really funny people associating capitalism with freedom and communism with lack of freedom. Both are just socioeconomic systems, you can have both of them paired with a liberal or authoritarian government. For example, here in my country we had a pro-capitalism military regime that laster over 20 years, where:
- You couldn't vote for politicians because the military would "decide" for you
- The military would freely invade your home with the excuse you were a "commie terrorist", and judge that by arbritary means (i.e. the music you listened to)
- The military also took whole families and tortured them, many people simply "disappeared" and only found dead many year later, some never found at all.
- Anything that went to newspapers or TV had to go through the government for censorship, many artists and journalists fled during that time.

All of that supported by the USA (a lot of those military were trained by the CIA even). All in the name of FREEDOM only capitalism can provide! Only recently those people were recognized as deceased (getting a death certificate), and even more recently, having the death certificate updated attributing the cause of death to the government.

Note that I have nothing against people in US, the criticism is towards their government in general, not their people. And it seems a lot of people in the US (at least the artistic class) would agree with that, so much they felt a movie about that very event should win an Oscar.

Point is: communism != authoritarian regime. You can have it in capitalism, too.

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-06-30, 13:43:

What do you mean by "soviet"? Are you referring to people who support communism? Because what this game is doing is basically cr […]
Show full quote

vstrakh wrote on 2025-06-30, 12:05:

Because the fictious video game establishes the notion of "soviet" as being normal and acceptable. It's the very same as ditchin […]
Show full quote

DracoNihil wrote on 2025-06-30, 11:54:

I don't understand why we're having this drama over a fictitious video game...

Because the fictious video game establishes the notion of "soviet" as being normal and acceptable.
It's the very same as ditching the measles vaccines, just in mental plain.
You do not recognize the danger, yet you invite the promotion of dangerous forces.

What do you mean by "soviet"?
Are you referring to people who support communism? Because what this game is doing is basically criticizing communism (in a very ignorant way, IMO).

Really funny people associating capitalism with freedom and communism with lack of freedom. Both are just socioeconomic systems, you can have both of them paired with a liberal or authoritarian government. For example, here in my country we had a pro-capitalism military regime that laster over 20 years, where:
- You couldn't vote for politicians because the military would "decide" for you
- The military would freely invade your home with the excuse you were a "commie terrorist", and judge that by arbritary means (i.e. the music you listened to)
- The military also took whole families and tortured them, many people simply "disappeared" and only found dead many year later, some never found at all.
- Anything that went to newspapers or TV had to go through the government for censorship, many artists and journalists fled during that time.

All of that supported by the USA (a lot of those military were trained by the CIA even). All in the name of FREEDOM only capitalism can provide! Only recently those people were recognized as deceased (getting a death certificate), and even more recently, having the death certificate updated attributing the cause of death to the government.

Note that I have nothing against people in US, the criticism is towards their government in general, not their people. And it seems a lot of people in the US (at least the artistic class) would agree with that, so much they felt a movie about that very event should win an Oscar.

Point is: communism != authoritarian regime. You can have it in capitalism, too.

The fact that Brazil's army ruled the country from 1964-85 is old news and has nothing to do with a distasteful video game. But since you felt a need to bring Brazilian politics into the conversation, I will remind you that your current President, "Lula" was responsible for Brazil joining the Brazil, Russia, India, and China diplomatic club (BRIC). Of course that "commie terrorist" club has continued to expand and became BRICS with the likes of Iran, etc. Governments are a reflection of their people. In the United States we have a saying, "You are the company you keep." Meaning that the people whom you choose to associate with influence your own character and reputation.

Starcat wrote on 2025-06-30, 15:10:

The fact that Brazil's army ruled the country from 1964-85 is old news and has nothing to do with a distasteful video game. But since you felt a need to bring Brazilian politics into the conversation, I will remind you that your current President, "Lula" was responsible for Brazil joining the Brazil, Russia, India, and China diplomatic club (BRIC). Of course that "commie terrorist" club has continued to expand and became BRICS with the likes of Iran, etc. Governments are a reflection of their people. In the United States we have a saying, "You are the company you keep." Meaning that the people whom you choose to associate with influence your own character and reputation.

Thanks for explaining brazilian politics to me (it's BRICS btw, South Africa is also a member). I still don't see why having commercial alliances with countries like India, South Africa, China, Russia, Iran, Indonesia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates or Ethiopia would be a problem. Not to mention current aliances with US and Europe still exist the same as always.
Or did you really think BRICS is something like NATO?

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-06-30, 17:01:

Starcat wrote on 2025-06-30, 15:10:

The fact that Brazil's army ruled the country from 1964-85 is old news and has nothing to do with a distasteful video game. But since you felt a need to bring Brazilian politics into the conversation, I will remind you that your current President, "Lula" was responsible for Brazil joining the Brazil, Russia, India, and China diplomatic club (BRIC). Of course that "commie terrorist" club has continued to expand and became BRICS with the likes of Iran, etc. Governments are a reflection of their people. In the United States we have a saying, "You are the company you keep." Meaning that the people whom you choose to associate with influence your own character and reputation.

Thanks for explaining brazilian politics to me (it's BRICS btw, South Africa is also a member). I still don't see why having commercial alliances with countries like India, South Africa, China, Russia, Iran, Indonesia, Egypt, United Arab Emirates or Ethiopia would be a problem. Not to mention current aliances with US and Europe still exist the same as always.
Or did you really think BRICS is something like NATO?

No, I don't think that BRICS is anything like NATO. Any such suggestion would be preposterous. However, in my opinion any organization that promotes cooperation and economic trade with terrorist States is the embodiment of evil.

Communism may not be the same thing as an authoritarian regime, in the same way that water ice is not the same thing as temperatures lower than 0°C, but one requires the other in order to exist.

Sure, you can have an authoritarian regime without communism (and you can have sub-zero temperatures without water ice), but that doesn't mean that the inverse is true. Ask most Marxist theoreticians themselves - they wouldn't have insisted on the "dictatorship of the proletariat" otherwise, and it's not like such a concept can truly be avoided when the system necessitates and calls for a centrally-planned economy.

All of that doesn't make capitalism always holy and perfect, either. But this isn't about the merit of one economic system over the other; it's perfectly possible to take vstrakh's statement at face value and assume that when he says "Soviets" he means "Soviets".

"Authoritarian" is a pretty useless term. Everyone is "authoritarian" in practice from the perspective of one or more groups of people.

It's more useful to look at various definitions of the good of the nation, which one is correct, and whether the state effectively promotes it.

VileR wrote on 2025-06-30, 18:11:

Communism may not be the same thing as an authoritarian regime, in the same way that water ice is not the same thing as temperatures lower than 0°C, but one requires the other in order to exist.

Sure, you can have an authoritarian regime without communism (and you can have sub-zero temperatures without water ice), but that doesn't mean that the inverse is true. Ask most Marxist theoreticians themselves - they wouldn't have insisted on the "dictatorship of the proletariat" otherwise, and it's not like such a concept can truly be avoided when the system necessitates and calls for a centrally-planned economy.

All of that doesn't make capitalism always holy and perfect, either. But this isn't about the merit of one economic system over the other; it's perfectly possible to take vstrakh's statement at face value and assume that when he says "Soviets" he means "Soviets".

But capitalism cannot exist without any authority, too (be it government or enforced by corporations), protection of property must be enforced somehow. Again, not something directly related to communism but a general problem when implementing any type of socioeconomic system (unless you want anarchy, of course). Question is, who should this authority be and what should be its focus? The proletariat (which you made sound like some ugly word, but it's a group which in fact both of us are part of) working for our interests or half a dozen billionaires working for their interests? Because right now what I see is the government and police working only to protect the property of the wealthy. We consume what they want us to, we eat what they want us to, we live how they want us to live... this is not freedom, at all. And it's not even about the rich being "evil" or anything, it's just how capitalism works.
Anyway, not saying to just ditch all that was stabilished through many years and start again with communism, I know is not that simple and enforcing it will just make things worse. It's more about stopping making communism a taboo and rejecting everything that comes from it as it was the devil or something. Both capitalism and communism were created by people and aren't some kind of physics law like gravity, both can be changed and adapted to current society's needs.

It's sad that the main reason for a lot of people accepting capitalism the way it is because of the promisse that "any other way will be much worse".

Ok, too much off topic (maybe not as the game is meant to create controversy). But wanted to give my contribution.

Like, this game looks terrible, and I don't even appreciate the genre but the quantity of butthurt in this thread is so large I would invest in the project.

Unbombed people privilege - estimate the value of a product by the level of concern expressed.

Adding green fictional monsters does not discard the real danger.
Soviet monster russia does not become soft and fluffy because "hey this is not real, there's green monsters. So much butthurt, I will definitely consume this shit".
The ads for drugs does make it safe and legal, "let the free market decide" does not work here.

Please, people, stop promoting the soviet death cult wrapped in fancy graphics. This is not a personal offence issue, and this is not a funny matter. Not yet, the time hasn't come.
It has a real effect on the minds of people that have no immunity against it. You had no previous contact with soviet ways, trust the first hand experience - its goal is to subjugate the weak, corrupt those who are useful in further expansion, and destroy those who oppose. There's nothing about the quality of life or moral values, it's a death cult disguised as a romantic dream.

Stop spreading that dream, it's a delusion, you just spread the poison in a fancy wrapping. Consumers will take sides later, and you won't like the outcome...

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-06-30, 19:46:

Question is, who should this authority be and what should be its focus? The proletariat working for our interests or half a dozen billionaires working for their interests? Because right now what I see is the government and police working only to protect the property of the wealthy. We consume what they want us to, we eat what they want us to, we live how they want us to live... this is not freedom, at all. And it's not even about the rich being "evil" or anything, it's just how capitalism works.
Anyway, not saying to just ditch all that was stabilished through many years and start again with communism,

i'm sure its ok to go off topic now and then, and kind of funny that a game with the word soviet is the thread it happens in!

Anyway, you're right about the fundamentals - what is authority (it's force), there's a quotation i like from (I think) a british politician about what you should ask:

"What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?"

and to me that should be applied to all, including any proletariat, who do not of necessity or belief work for "our" interests any more than anyone else, who decides what "our" interests are anyway. All forms of government end up authoritarian when power becomes centralised and large enough to dominate sizeable groups of people. communism just seems like a fast track to centralised power, it doesn't matter what it says on paper or what its supposed to be - it plays out the same way every time. Capitalism takes longer, until massive corporations become defacto enforcers. Neither is genuinely representative. there is no optimal, but a dull compromised non radical mixture of free markets, regulations, safety nets, and limits to power from any source (a constitution) is the uncomfortable never quite satisfactory always somewhat corruptible but safest bet

there are some interesting games that simulate political and economic systems, strategy game variations, but they always carry the preferences of their authors or arbitrary ideas about 'bonuses' different systems grant a society. still fun though

News flash: the USSR is dead and gone. (But the odor of Operation Gladio remains...)

Restored the thread, I was anxious that it would turn into a flame war. Nothing changed or edited.

Thanks for reopening the thread, Dominus.
Since I have few posts on the forum, I can't reply to private messages.

I'm here to answer any questions the community may have about this project.

I'm just excited for any new development for DOS.

How far along are you in development? Have you settled on a toolset?

gerry wrote on 2025-07-01, 08:35:

communism just seems like a fast track to centralised power, it doesn't matter what it says on paper or what its supposed to be - it plays out the same way every time. Capitalism takes longer, until massive corporations become defacto enforcers. Neither is genuinely representative. there is no optimal, but a dull compromised non radical mixture of free markets, regulations, safety nets, and limits to power from any source (a constitution) is the uncomfortable never quite satisfactory always somewhat corruptible but safest bet

I disagree that communism is a fast track to centralised power, not that I think it's not, but I don't think that we have any valid experience with communism to make that afirmation.
Remember: Capitalism "won", and countries who stayed with communism faced severe boycott from the rest of the world (sanctions). So I don't think we have any example of communist country coexisting among capitalist ones without intervention to compare. It's hard to tell what failed because of communism and what failed because of plain economic disadvantage.
What we see now is that communist countries are not usually among the most developed in many aspects, but on the other hand, they also aren't amongst the less developed, either (all countries with very low HDI are capitalist). And considering the lack of economic support suffered by those countries, that means communism is not pure evil and may have positive aspects to be considered.

Personally, I don't think we need a new government or socioeconomic model to follow "on paper", what we need is to open our minds to ideas and regulations aiming for the collective good (that includes the environment we live in) rather than just individual needs. Because if we don't, things may get real ugly real soon.

keenmaster486 wrote on 2025-07-03, 16:28:

I'm just excited for any new development for DOS.

How far along are you in development? Have you settled on a toolset?

For now, we've done some tests using the Watcom compiler, but it's still too early to have a demo.

As soon as we have something to show, we will. In the meantime, you can play the Genesis demo here and see how the game is performing.

I'm looking forward to the promised Neo-Geo port.

If politics is becoming an issue, rename "soviets" to "aliens", because everyone hates aliens.