VOGONS


First post, by Retroplayer

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Well, rather, bringing it back. The IBM PC Jr. was the only system I am aware of which had cartridge slots and it is probably very obvious why it never took off. I mean why would you go with expensive cartridge software when you had floppy and hard drives? Disks were cheaper than ROM, but nowadays memory (especially in the sizes we would be talking about) is cheap.

But there is just something special about cartridges that feels more significant. Console gamers understand this. There is something more tangible about holding the software in your hand. It is the artwork on the label and the boxes as well. Something feels more substantial about it.

Apparently the PC Jr. system cartridges worked much like ISA cards and placed the ROM in the extension ROM area typically occupied by Cassette basic. This allowed it to hook and auto-execute then take over the system. I haven't researched any further, but I imagine that the address decoding hardware was probably already present on the motherboard so it didn't need to be in the cartridge or require the entire ISA bus.

There really is no practical reason for doing this, of course. Maybe just the coolness factor of it. Maybe just to see what the homebrew community would do with this with polished packages.

To implement something like this today, I would envision an ISA and/or PCI card extended to a 3.5" bay slot and developing a standard for 3D printed cartridge cases and slot and pinout.

Ridiculous idea?

Reply 1 of 8, by liqmat

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Even more ridiculous was how poorly cartridge games for the PCjr were marketed. I owned a PCjr near release and only found out a few years ago that Activison and Imagic had released a couple of their games on cart for the PCjr (Demon Attack, Microsurgeon, Pitfall II, River Raid). Nowadays, those four carts are high priced collectibles if you can even catch one passing through Ebay. They are quite rare, especially Microsurgeon. As a matter of fact, the PCjr variant of Pitfall II is my favorite version of the game. All four are well done and take full advantage of the PCjr's expanded graphics and sound capabilities. Luckily, some kind soul imaged all of them years ago and are playable via DOSBox. This is a great resource on everything PCjr: https://www.brutman.com/PCjr/pcjr.html

Reply 2 of 8, by Retroplayer

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Main complication:

Cartridge based consoles have static hardware configurations which makes it simpler to write bare-metal software. In the PC environment, we don't know what hardware the user will have. We would need to stick with bios supported hardware only or identify standards that would translate among hardware variations. We wouldn't have benefit of DOS here either. We are on the bare-metal with only BIOS support at this point. The ISA/PCI card would probably benefit from having some hardware on it such as controller inputs and possibly sound hardware (though SB/FM was probably standard enough to assume?) or stick with the PC buzzer only. Obviously drivers to support all sorts of hardware inside of the ROM would render the entire concept unfeasible.

Reply 3 of 8, by Retroplayer

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liqmat wrote on 2025-08-27, 15:39:

Even more ridiculous was how poorly cartridge games for the PCjr were marketed. I owned a PCjr near release and only found out a few years ago that Activison and Imagic had released a couple of their games on cart for the PCjr (Demon Attack, Microsurgeon, Pitfall II, River Raid). Nowadays, those four carts are high priced collectibles if you can even catch one passing through Ebay. They are quite rare, especially Microsurgeon. As a matter of fact, the PCjr variant of Pitfall II is my favorite version of the game. All four are well done and take full advantage of the PCjr's expanded graphics and sound capabilities. Luckily, some kind soul imaged all of them years ago and are playable via DOSBox. This is a great resource on everything PCjr: https://www.brutman.com/PCjr/pcjr.html

I managed to completely skip over the PC Jr. era and understand that it was a pretty obscure machine in the first place with many arguing that it wasn't even really a PC compatible at all. It was likely one of those systems that IBM just quickly moved past, hence the lack of marketing and the obscurity and rarity of it today.

While I thought I remembered having PC Jrs. in my classroom when I was a kid, I think they were actually one of those Macintosh style IBMs (roast me for not being to remember the name) and the only thing that really stood out to me was the IR wireless keyboard it used. I still don't know which specific system that was.

Reply 4 of 8, by chinny22

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It's not totally ridiculous, especially for these earlier systems with smaller hard drive limits.

On my 486's I have the CF to IDE adapters that are mounted on the I/O bracket.
For a while as I had too many games to fit on 1 card, I swap the cards out depending on what game I want to play.
So somewhat similar to a cartridge style setup.

Reply 5 of 8, by jakethompson1

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I suppose there is PCMCIA/CardBus, but making cards is probably too complicated for hobbyists

Reply 6 of 8, by Ozzuneoj

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Boy, in this day of not actually owning the software (or even hardware...) you buy, imagine if a USB game cartridge reader was produced and games were put on some kind of standardized cartridges. Maybe even a collection of games on a cartridge.

If vinyl records and film cameras can make a comeback, why not cartridge based games on PC? If you own the cartridge, you own the game. No separate license keys or accounts needed. If the cartridge is in the reader, the game can run (and download updates, etc.).

Probably a terrible idea on several levels, but it seems like something that would show up as a Kickstarter campaign, bring in a bunch of money and... never actually get finished... 🤣

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 7 of 8, by Retroplayer

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If it were restricted to only an ISA implementation, I don't think it would be very complex. ISA card with decoding logic and possibly hardware for accessing some controllers (NES maybe?) a ribbon cable with a subset of the ISA bus brought up to a board that mounted in a 3.5" disk bay with an edge connector. The cartridge could be as simple as just ROM. The complexity would be in the cartridge code itself.

I do seem to recall some effort or competition before where people were making games that could fit on ROMs installed on network cards which usually have an extension ROM socket. This wouldn't be much different unless we implemented some bank-switching (EMS disk?) mechanism to allow larger cartridges.

What actually started this ridiculous thought was back when I was messing around with my Sharp PC-4502. As a laptop-style system, it has no normal ISA bus, but internally it has headers for various optional daughter boards with most of the ISA bus. I was designing a sound (AY-3-8912 based) and NES controller interface card for it and I briefly thought "wouldn't it be neat if this took cartridges?" The idea pops into my head every so often since then.

Anyway, yeah, it is so impractical that it would probably appeal to a very tiny niche of an already very tiny niche of retro computer enthusiasts. Though maybe worth doing as a solitary hobbyist project just to say it was done. 😀 I guess I will see how long this intrusive thought lasts in my head and if it will force me to do it just to get it out. General rule: If the new idea still seems like a good idea a week later, you got a project.

Reply 8 of 8, by Jo22

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What would be cool, I think, are co-processors in the cartridge. 😎
Like in an Super Nintendo cartridge. Some 8088, 6502 or Z80.

Edit:

I was designing a sound (AY-3-8912 based) and NES controller interface card for it and
I briefly thought "wouldn't it be neat if this took cartridges?" The idea pops into my head every so often since then.

Hi! There was an 8088 PC that featured an MSX2 sound and video chip.
The hardware worked in tandem with CGA and PC speaker.
A modified GW-Basic and some DOS games did use the MSX part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVI-838
https://www.msx.org/wiki/Spectravideo_SVI-838

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Oujxz2EDQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5w4cJfZY9E

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