So, I just fired ROTH up on my DOS machine, and to my surprise, I have no music at all in-game, sound effects/movies are fine.

This is my first time trying it on this machine, I wanted to see if MT-32 or General MIDI worked using the installed Wavetable Pi. Music works in setup, but nothing in game. Played a bit into chapter 2, just to be sure. Funny thing, no music with SB16 or AWE32 config either.

Guess I have some troubleshooting of my own to do. 🤣

Yeah, there is some music right at the start. But once you are in chapter 2, then after some silence, pretty wild piano music starts. But weird, that it's not even working on SB16 for you. I mean even MT-32 works for me. It just doesnt sound right. ^^

Went with the nuclear option. Delete and reinstall. I was on a minimal install. Changed it to max and it's all working.

So far... Wavetable Pi is working great with MT-32 selected. But of course, MT-32 Pi is emulation, not real hardware, so that's probably why it's working?

I just uploaded how it sounds with my CM-32L (MT-32) on real hardware and with DOSBox. The first is leaving out stuff.
This is the track which plays directly when you get to chapter 2
(chapter 2: go upstairs, light 2 candles at the corridor, take key, open door next to it, enter room, quit cutscene)
Can you check which sounds like what you got? The MT 32 as mentioned is missing some sounds (especially outsode of the piano which also sounds differently)
Original:
https://youtu.be/Ya7c8xc56N4
Emulation via DOSBox:
https://youtu.be/BHqU2ZFsuR8

Well, on this Wavetable Pi / MT-32 Pi, mine sounds more like the EMU in DOSBox.

No piano at all on chapter 1. Similar background music, just no piano.

Chapter 2, piano kicks in and it sounds more like EMU than the original MT-32. Especially the audio shifting between the L&R channels.

I wonder if I can capture the output from my DOS machine without having to dig out my capture hardware ... perhaps just the audio.

Where in your attached DOSBox config file is it setting up an MT-32? Under MIDI it's set to intelligent mode which the game won't use as it's not really an MT32 game, and passes to the default MIDI device.

Are you connecting your CM32 to the PC and DOSBox is playing on that, are you using MUNT?

The "Emulation via DOSBox" video you attached doesn't sound like an MT32 to me. It really seems like you're just hearing standard General MIDI. The MT32 only has nine channels and plays channels 2-10, General MIDI can go up to 16 channels. Notes on changes outside of the 2-10 range won't play.

Here are quick and dirty captures of what I hear on my setup. Used Audacity and recorded output directly from the Wavetable Pi. Kinda noisy, but you get the idea. 😀

ROTH Chapter 1: https://jumpshare.com/s/lJcaaAhj8rQLkpxWDDKa

ROTH Chapter 2: https://jumpshare.com/s/e9e6HICDDVgAJWMUNiQm

StriderTR wrote on Yesterday, 20:44:

Here are quick and dirty captures of what I hear on my setup. Used Audacity and recorded output directly from the Wavetable Pi. Kinda noisy, but you get the idea. 😀

ROTH Chapter 1: https://jumpshare.com/s/lJcaaAhj8rQLkpxWDDKa

ROTH Chapter 2: https://jumpshare.com/s/e9e6HICDDVgAJWMUNiQm

Now switch MT32-Pi over to Fluidsynth and have a listen.

StriderTR wrote on Yesterday, 20:44:

Here are quick and dirty captures of what I hear on my setup. Used Audacity and recorded output directly from the Wavetable Pi. Kinda noisy, but you get the idea. 😀

ROTH Chapter 1: https://jumpshare.com/s/lJcaaAhj8rQLkpxWDDKa

ROTH Chapter 2: https://jumpshare.com/s/e9e6HICDDVgAJWMUNiQm

Wow, that first one sounds horrible. ^^
The second one sounds fine, but while the piano is similar to EMU, it lacks some background musics which are there in EMU but not on original hardware.

SScorpio wrote on Yesterday, 20:14:

Where in your attached DOSBox config file is it setting up an MT-32? Under MIDI it's set to intelligent mode which the game won't use as it's not really an MT32 game, and passes to the default MIDI device.

Are you connecting your CM32 to the PC and DOSBox is playing on that, are you using MUNT?

The "Emulation via DOSBox" video you attached doesn't sound like an MT32 to me. It really seems like you're just hearing standard General MIDI. The MT32 only has nine channels and plays channels 2-10, General MIDI can go up to 16 channels. Notes on changes outside of the 2-10 range won't play.

The attached DOSBox file is the one GOG automatically generates.
The game itself is sent to MT-32.
I recorded this on very different systems:
1. GOG DosBox, just like that.
2. Real Hardware, booted on DOS with connected CM32L

But yeah, from the page I quoted it might be that with the MT-32set in the game, the game incorrectly sends the General MIDI to the port. Which then my CM-32L (and SScorpios Wavetable Pi) doesnt handle correctly, but probably the DOS Box, which is waiting for general Midi, does.

Btw, @SScorpio: Can Wavetable Pi be set to general Midi? And then just keep the game at MT-32? Wondering how it sounds then.

Kordanor wrote on Yesterday, 21:21:

The attached DOSBox file is the one GOG automatically generates. The game itself is sent to MT-32. I recorded this on very diffe […]
Show full quote

The attached DOSBox file is the one GOG automatically generates.
The game itself is sent to MT-32.
I recorded this on very different systems:
1. GOG DosBox, just like that.
2. Real Hardware, booted on DOS with connected CM32L

But yeah, from the page I quoted it might be that with the MT-32set in the game, the game incorrectly sends the General MIDI to the port. Which then my CM-32L (and SScorpios Wavetable Pi) doesnt handle correctly, but probably the DOS Box, which is waiting for general Midi, does.

Btw, @SScorpio: Can Wavetable Pi be set to general Midi? And then just keep the game at MT-32? Wondering how it sounds then.

In that case, no there's nothing "MT-32" configured in that DOSBox config other rather the intelligent mode MPU401 which was an MT-32 thing, but only required on specific games that used that feature. Since ROTH doesn't actually do real MT-32 it won't use it. It really sounds like you are just getting Window's default MIDI playback. If you have a USB MIDI adapter, you can connect your real CM32L to your PC, and then change the DOSBox MIDI device to the MIDI adapter and it will play on your external module from DOSBox with the exact same issues you are seeing in DOS. You could alternatively setup MUNT in Windows and have DOSBox playback to that and still get the problems.

The Wavetable Pi is just a connector board to the Raspberry Pi Zero. The software side of things is still just MT32-Pi. And that supports both MUNT for MT-32 playback, and fluidsynth which is General MIDI using soundfonts.

From the description on the list of MT-32 games, it really sounds like the MT-32 setting in the game does absolutely nothing. The MT-32 itself will respond to normal MIDI commands. But it was created before the MIDI standard so not all instruments are mapped to the same numbers which is why the wrong instruments are playing. And as I mentioned before, it only plays channels 2-10 versus General MIDI supporting up to 16 channels.

In games with proper MT-32 and General MIDI support, choosing the MT-32 instead of General MIDI can cause an entirely different sound track to play that's designed for the MT-32. That updating instrument mappings. And possibly changing the channel things play on.

Ignore the static and pops, I didn't realize I bypassed my ground loop isolator for the capture. It's clean in-person.

Chapter 1 MT-32 with Pi in GM/FS mode: https://jumpshare.com/share/KvZ2pb9YBnSiZ494hnof

Chapter 2 MT-32 with Pi in GM/FS mode: https://jumpshare.com/share/ntbWA1ExHblJ7lAkqlhl

StriderTR wrote on Yesterday, 21:47:

Ignore the static and pops, I didn't realize I bypassed my ground loop isolator for the capture. It's clean in-person.

Chapter 1 MT-32 with Pi in GM/FS mode: https://jumpshare.com/share/KvZ2pb9YBnSiZ494hnof

Chapter 2 MT-32 with Pi in GM/FS mode: https://jumpshare.com/share/ntbWA1ExHblJ7lAkqlhl

This actually sounds pretty cool, thanks! 😁

Alright. Yeah. Well, I am not trying to fix anything here. I just wanted to understand what DOSBox is doing.

I also tested to set it to General Midi on my real hardware (CM-32L) to see what happens. But while it does sound similar to what I get with the MT-32 it's also a distinctively different, using different instruments. So what is being sent to the MPU401 in both cases must be a bit different.

Also as I stated initially, afaik the MT-32 files are not freely available by Roland and GOG usually also doesnt use these. So it would have been quite a surprise if these were "Authentic" MT-32 Sounds (if it was working correctly)

Kordanor wrote on Yesterday, 21:51:

This actually sounds pretty cool, thanks! :D […]
Show full quote

StriderTR wrote on Yesterday, 21:47:

Ignore the static and pops, I didn't realize I bypassed my ground loop isolator for the capture. It's clean in-person.

Chapter 1 MT-32 with Pi in GM/FS mode: https://jumpshare.com/share/KvZ2pb9YBnSiZ494hnof

Chapter 2 MT-32 with Pi in GM/FS mode: https://jumpshare.com/share/ntbWA1ExHblJ7lAkqlhl

This actually sounds pretty cool, thanks! 😁

Alright. Yeah. Well, I am not trying to fix anything here. I just wanted to understand what DOSBox is doing.

I also tested to set it to General Midi on my real hardware (CM-32L) to see what happens. But while it does sound similar to what I get with the MT-32 it's also a distinctively different, using different instruments. So what is being sent to the MPU401 in both cases must be a bit different.

Also as I stated initially, afaik the MT-32 files are not freely available by Roland and GOG usually also doesnt use these. So it would have been quite a surprise if these were "Authentic" MT-32 Sounds (if it was working correctly)

Anytime! Just wish I had realized I bypassed the GLI coming off the PicoGUS (MPU-401 mode). 🤣

On a side note, not sure if it matters, but I have the US version of the game. I read there are differences between US and EU versions.

Oh, yeah. You can actually switch between the versions directly in GOG (it offers to install UK and US versions as well as german). As the game was first released in europe, the US version is newer and got more features. But since I want to play the German version it also cannot be "upgraded". Unfortunately there wasn't like a Pennsylvanian German release. 😁