I don't have much time ...

Well, if you really want to "just play" that game then the GOG / Steam versions are usually great. Imagine running Win9x would be a breeze, this forum would probably not even exist. And to suggest that DOS was all quiet sailing is also a bit of a stretch. I usually found that if I engage in any "retro tinkering" and actually dont have much time - it quickly turns into a stressful chore - not what you actually want from your hobby and your leisure time. It is even worse if you work with complicated hardware. Restoring PCB traces after battery damage with a " I need to do this quickly " mindset are a sure way to mess up...

AlessandroB wrote on Yesterday, 00:44:

I got Star Wars Rebellion...
Nice intro, I create my pilot, I launch the mission and as soon as it has to load the mission, BOM!
it doesn't enter the carrier but miraculously manages to start the training mission (the joystick I had calibrated is doing its own thing randomly for the screen).

Did you mean Alliance or X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter?
Rebellion is a 4X strategy game, not a flight sim.

Back in the day, the win98 driver that worked best with the game would usually come out 0-3 months after the game. We used to call that “ the most recent driver”. Now you have to think about which driver would have come out in that time window. That’s the one you want to use.

Back in the day, plug and play devices could be treacherous perfidious beasts, and when mixed with legacy devices, down right maddening. PnP has three phases: enumeration, arbitration, configuration. The three phases occurred twice during win98 startup: once during the real mode bios boot, and then again when entering protected mode. If I got stuck, as a last resort I could usually arrange for a new enumeration by resetting the config data in the bios or deleting the enum key under hk local machine. Fixing enumeration problems would usually carry through to resolve the rest of the process. Be prepared to reinstall all your drivers though.

Pick Hardware introduced years after OS Release and you think it will run out of the box? Lol. I have no issues with Win98 and even Win95 on 486 - Socket A Systems. Pick an older platform like Slot1 or So370 with 512MB RAM or lower and try again.

And with the Games... The quality is wide spread from Garbage with special Requirements and Rock Solid ones that just ran almost fine. Maybe yours belongs to the first Group which is not Representative to All Win98 Games.

Aui wrote on Yesterday, 01:15:

I don't have much time ...

Well, if you really want to "just play" that game then the GOG / Steam versions are usually great. Imagine running Win9x would be a breeze, this forum would probably not even exist. And to suggest that DOS was all quiet sailing is also a bit of a stretch. I usually found that if I engage in any "retro tinkering" and actually dont have much time - it quickly turns into a stressful chore - not what you actually want from your hobby and your leisure time. It is even worse if you work with complicated hardware. Restoring PCB traces after battery damage with a " I need to do this quickly " mindset are a sure way to mess up...

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. This time, in particular, I didn't have time and had to get the game up and running by the weekend. Usually, there are things that take me a month to figure out. This combination of time and "probably" a bit of a pain in the ass hardware/software system created this frustration. Anyway, I really didn't remember all these problems in Win98... when the game suddenly "exits and returns to the desktop," well, good luck figuring out what to do.

feda wrote on Yesterday, 02:12:

AlessandroB wrote on Yesterday, 00:44:

I got Star Wars Rebellion...
Nice intro, I create my pilot, I launch the mission and as soon as it has to load the mission, BOM!
it doesn't enter the carrier but miraculously manages to start the training mission (the joystick I had calibrated is doing its own thing randomly for the screen).

Did you mean Alliance or X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter?
Rebellion is a 4X strategy game, not a flight sim.

Yes Sorry "X-Wing Alliance"

AncapDude wrote on Yesterday, 05:54:

Pick Hardware introduced years after OS Release and you think it will run out of the box? Lol. I have no issues with Win98 and even Win95 on 486 - Socket A Systems. Pick an older platform like Slot1 or So370 with 512MB RAM or lower and try again.

And with the Games... The quality is wide spread from Garbage with special Requirements and Rock Solid ones that just ran almost fine. Maybe yours belongs to the first Group which is not Representative to All Win98 Games.

But in fact, I honestly don't remember all these problems, as if the game were bugged. As for the chosen machine, I don't think so, because even the case has a Win98 label, so those hardware components are designed to run well on Win98.

AlessandroB wrote on Yesterday, 00:44:

I don't have much time to play games, and now that my son is starting to enjoy Star Wars flight simulators, I got Tie Fighter. I […]
Show full quote

I don't have much time to play games, and now that my son is starting to enjoy Star Wars flight simulators, I got Tie Fighter. I installed it on the DX2, and after a few memory issues, it worked right away, including the audio, since I have Sound Blasters in all my computers. To be honest, aside from a few memory configurations, all DOS games work fine, and there are no hardware incompatibilities.

Last week I received the 1080ti that I took for testing and once installed it was very simple to install the Nvidia package with the drivers and everything else, installed Star Ward Squadrons from Steam in a short time and launched the game and it worked great the first time. Amazing.

In a certain sense, DOS, with its simplicity, and modern operating systems (I would also include OSX) make using the computer (even for gaming) very enjoyable.

Now I explain this title after hours spent fighting with my NetVista IBM Pentium 4.

I got Star Wars Rebellion which runs on Windows 98 and I said to myself: why not install Windows 98 on my IBM NetVista Pentium 4 and then this game... a nightmare. Once installed Windows 98 SE the operating system practically doesn't see anything of the computer, you have to install the drivers for everything (obviously) - The problem is that after 25 years... try to find the right drivers for this computer.. in those days there wasn't much use of the internet to solve problems and doing research from scratch would have meant entire days to install everything... you'll say, the beauty of retro... yes I say, but the Win98 era perhaps wasn't well covered by the internet and it's not easy to find information. However, I installed the Intel driver package for the Mainboard, the TNT2 drivers (detonator? are they the right ones? Who knows, who knows???) and those for SB Live (not exactly lightning-fast to find thanks Phil but it's not clear what it's really for). Anyway, only the network card remained out, I'll think about it later.

Then I installed the game and once launched it returns to the desktop!!! I immediately relaunch it and it starts (but why?). Nice intro, I create my pilot, I launch the mission and as soon as it has to load the mission, BOM! returns to the Windows desktop, DAMN! Is it DirectX 6? The game lets me install them but in the game test it tells me something like they are obsolete.. but YOU made me install them!! The SB Live package contains DirectX 9, discouraged I try them randomly, the game always starts on the second try (this is a mystery), it doesn't enter the carrier but miraculously manages to start the training mission (the joystick I had calibrated is doing its own thing randomly for the screen). I decide to close because it's late, I exit on Win98, but the computer freezes on the screen where it should shut down the computer.. what a mess!!!

I used Win98 a lot back in the day, but I didn't remember it being so cumbersome, unstable, and with a general feeling of randomness. I then noticed the giant steps forward with the latest Windows; playing Tie-Fighter on DOS or Squadrons on Windows 10 was beautiful and fun, but using Rebellion on Windows 98 was frustrating and decidedly disappointing.

Sorry, it's this W98SE configuration and tuning adventure that's the most fun and relaxing for me. When everything clicks at the end and the system is tuned and fully functional, regardless of the hw it's running on.
If it was instant, like today's systems, it would be boring for me. I, on the other hand, find the W98SE very flexible, because you can extend it to several generations of more modern hw, and the only obstacle is the missing drivers.Some of them replace the amazing work of fans enthusiasts like RLoew, Maximus Decimus, Crazii and others.
A lot of period software can still be traced online (even by sites like this and its fans), and I still have a bunch of decades-old CDs and floppy disks with the necessary software.

AlessandroB wrote on Yesterday, 00:44:

I used Win98 a lot back in the day, but I didn't remember it being so cumbersome, unstable, and with a general feeling of randomness. I then noticed the giant steps forward with the latest Windows; playing Tie-Fighter on DOS or Squadrons on Windows 10 was beautiful and fun, but using Rebellion on Windows 98 was frustrating and decidedly disappointing.

I do remember, oh boy I do! 😁
I had Windows 98SE running on a Compaq PC with a Pentium 75 and I saw many blue-screens!
Not so much with Windows 3.1 or 95 era software, but current Windows 98 software.
Old ISA cards (PAS16 etc) were working fine, though.

The main culprit in my case was that anything USB assumed an MMX capable processor at the time.
Using an USB Webcam, for example, had caused me a blue-screen on my Pentium PC (non-MMX).
DirectX and multinedia in general were very pro MMX at the time, as well.

On our family PC, a Pentium III 733 MHz, Windows 98SE ran rock-solid. Until it got replaced by XP! 😀
Of course, Pentium II and III had MMX support and were descendants of the Pentium Pro, too.
They were much better suited to host Windows 98 or more stable, in general.
If I would have had an Pentium MMX CPU installed in that Compaq PC, it might have been similar, maybe.

PS: There's modern Windows 98 hardware available. I haven't tried, but it looks promising.
The mainboard is called ITX LLAMA, I think. It can be configured to run at different speeds etc.

Here are some videos..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9UdU89DDvY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7zx6IGD_30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAFBR-Wk5Xw

Edit: Before SSE was a thing, there was AMD's 3DNow! instruction set.
Some multimedia applications and games supported it next to MMX.
I remember that CPUs made by VIA had 3DNow!, as well.

In terms of 90s compatibilty, thin clients might be worth a try.
They consist of low-power CPUs running at lower speed and have server type hardware (VGA, NIC).

Then, there were the VIA Epia mainboards..
They had been used in Car PC scene, I remember.

Ydee wrote on Yesterday, 11:01:

Sorry, it's this W98SE configuration and tuning adventure that's the most fun and relaxing for me. When everything clicks at the […]
Show full quote

AlessandroB wrote on Yesterday, 00:44:

I don't have much time to play games, and now that my son is starting to enjoy Star Wars flight simulators, I got Tie Fighter. I […]
Show full quote

I don't have much time to play games, and now that my son is starting to enjoy Star Wars flight simulators, I got Tie Fighter. I installed it on the DX2, and after a few memory issues, it worked right away, including the audio, since I have Sound Blasters in all my computers. To be honest, aside from a few memory configurations, all DOS games work fine, and there are no hardware incompatibilities.

Last week I received the 1080ti that I took for testing and once installed it was very simple to install the Nvidia package with the drivers and everything else, installed Star Ward Squadrons from Steam in a short time and launched the game and it worked great the first time. Amazing.

In a certain sense, DOS, with its simplicity, and modern operating systems (I would also include OSX) make using the computer (even for gaming) very enjoyable.

Now I explain this title after hours spent fighting with my NetVista IBM Pentium 4.

I got Star Wars Rebellion which runs on Windows 98 and I said to myself: why not install Windows 98 on my IBM NetVista Pentium 4 and then this game... a nightmare. Once installed Windows 98 SE the operating system practically doesn't see anything of the computer, you have to install the drivers for everything (obviously) - The problem is that after 25 years... try to find the right drivers for this computer.. in those days there wasn't much use of the internet to solve problems and doing research from scratch would have meant entire days to install everything... you'll say, the beauty of retro... yes I say, but the Win98 era perhaps wasn't well covered by the internet and it's not easy to find information. However, I installed the Intel driver package for the Mainboard, the TNT2 drivers (detonator? are they the right ones? Who knows, who knows???) and those for SB Live (not exactly lightning-fast to find thanks Phil but it's not clear what it's really for). Anyway, only the network card remained out, I'll think about it later.

Then I installed the game and once launched it returns to the desktop!!! I immediately relaunch it and it starts (but why?). Nice intro, I create my pilot, I launch the mission and as soon as it has to load the mission, BOM! returns to the Windows desktop, DAMN! Is it DirectX 6? The game lets me install them but in the game test it tells me something like they are obsolete.. but YOU made me install them!! The SB Live package contains DirectX 9, discouraged I try them randomly, the game always starts on the second try (this is a mystery), it doesn't enter the carrier but miraculously manages to start the training mission (the joystick I had calibrated is doing its own thing randomly for the screen). I decide to close because it's late, I exit on Win98, but the computer freezes on the screen where it should shut down the computer.. what a mess!!!

I used Win98 a lot back in the day, but I didn't remember it being so cumbersome, unstable, and with a general feeling of randomness. I then noticed the giant steps forward with the latest Windows; playing Tie-Fighter on DOS or Squadrons on Windows 10 was beautiful and fun, but using Rebellion on Windows 98 was frustrating and decidedly disappointing.

Sorry, it's this W98SE configuration and tuning adventure that's the most fun and relaxing for me. When everything clicks at the end and the system is tuned and fully functional, regardless of the hw it's running on.
If it was instant, like today's systems, it would be boring for me. I, on the other hand, find the W98SE very flexible, because you can extend it to several generations of more modern hw, and the only obstacle is the missing drivers.Some of them replace the amazing work of fans enthusiasts like RLoew, Maximus Decimus, Crazii and others.
A lot of period software can still be traced online (even by sites like this and its fans), and I still have a bunch of decades-old CDs and floppy disks with the necessary software.

I imagined my post would be a bit misinterpreted. I, too, would enjoy getting everything up and running if I had the time. But imagine having just a few hours a week and having to start from scratch to find all the drivers and various compatibility checks, search forums, discover that some enthusiast wrote drivers 10-15 years ago, find them, etc.—it takes a month! I would have liked to have the system working (I'm not saying perfect, but working) by the following Saturday. I would have liked the possibility of having the minimum in a short time and then, if I wanted to tweak the software, I could have continued later, improving it later and squeezing the software. What's missing here is having a configuration that isn't perfect but works in a short time, which is what I had with DOS and Win10.

While I'm here, I'd like to ask you something: I've read a bit here on the forum, but I need to dig deeper: what video card do you recommend for this computer? I read that the game I'm trying has very high hardware requirements with add-ons made by enthusiasts, and in fact, from the minimum recommended (Pentium 200), I'm running it on a Pentium 4 2.4. Which video card has an excellent cost/power ratio (for example, for the i7 I bought, I found that the 1080Ti costs very little used and is quite powerful). The system is a socket 423.

Once I figured out the hardare resource on my 98SE box it has been pretty stable honestly, but that may be because it's all hardware from the end of the 90s which might have a compatibility advantage. The other thing is that the P4 era was notorious for bad capacitors which will cause random instability, it may literally be worse than it used to be.

The Pentium IV had another "issue": Some instruction executed too fast!
This caused stability issues on some Windows 9x software.
That's why on later CPUs things were slowed down, so no timing loops would break.

Update: Intel Pentium 4 (tested on Irwindale Xeon) appears to execute the LOOP instruction in two cycles, noticeably faster than older and newer Intel CPUs.

Source: http://www.os2museum.com/wp/those-win9x-crash … -fast-machines/

AlessandroB wrote on Yesterday, 00:44:

Now I explain this title after hours spent fighting with my NetVista IBM Pentium 4.

What NetVista model? I have a couple of broken IBM ThinkCentre A50 (Socket478) and all mobos (Intel
D865GKD) have issues on electrolytic caps near VRM. I suspect this is the cause of the instability.