VOGONS


First post, by Wurenji

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If you want to build a Windows 98 retro gaming PC, prices might be not very friendly these days.
In my country, period-correct parts for Win98 are expensive, as PC were not very common in most homes and offices at that time, and now scalpers are collecting and reselling them as "industrial" if it supports ISA, at a premium.
However, OEM boards are sometimes the hidden treasure.

# Hardware config

- CPU: 			AMD Sempron 2500+ @ 1.40 GHz 						¥10
- Mainboard: ECS K8M800-M3 (Lenovo OEM) ¥100
- RAM: 1x A-Data DDR400 256MB, 2.5-3-3-8-1T ¥10
- Graphics: PNY Verto GeForce 6200 AGP with 256MB of DDR2 ¥75
- HDD: Western Digital WD800BB ¥47
- ODD: Pioneer DVR-118CHV DVD burner ¥75
- FDD: None for now
- Audio: Legend (now Lenovo) Audio Ace AA724-A2 with polymod ¥50
- Network: Onboard VIA VT6103
- CPU cooler: Random down-draft cooler with AMD mountings ¥10
- PSU: Segotep 350W max ¥25
- Case: Acer Veriton D430 case ¥59

- Total: ¥461 / $65.46 / €55.91
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# Motherboard and CPU
ECS K8M800-M3 (https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/lenovo-l-v800e) were manufactured in a large quantity for Lenovo's entry-level home and business PCs and now they're readily available on IdleFish (our FB Marketplace or eBay) for around 100 yuan, or 120-140 with a Sempron or Athlon 64 CPU bundled. They don't have ISA slots, don't do overclocking and generally worse in compatibility with everything before Windows 2000, so the prices are still friendly.

Mine came with a Sempron 2500+, with Palermo core and only 1.4 GHz of speed, it's fast enough (and not too fast) for Win98 and runs very cool even with this crappy cooler. With AMD K8 you can use modern AMD coolers to reduce costs and noise.

This board has the VT8237R Plus southbridge, with a revised SATA controller that supports SATA2/3 devices, but still cause errors under Win9x. When I first tried to install Win98 on this board it always freezes during second phase of setup. From PhilsComputerLab's video it was the SATA controller's problem. Unlike Intel chipsets, VIA doesn't support "remapping" SATA ports to the default IDE controller in order to maintain Win9x compatibility, so I disabled it and stick to IDE this time.

The BIOS is also troublesome, it has COM2 enabled and LPT1 set to ECP mode by default and cannot be changed by user. The MC'97 controller is also force-enabled but there's no such device requires it onboard and no CNR slot. I modified the BIOS, disabled COM2 and set LPT1 to SPP, so some resources are freed for DOS and Win98, but I didn't find a way to disable the MC'97.

# Graphics Card
I bought a MX 440-8x and a 9550 and they are all non-working. Then I got a new old stock GeForce 6200 and it worked like a charm! It is a low-profile fanless card, but runs very cool - at 25 degrees C room temperature, 47 degC idle under Win98, ~60 degC just after finishing 3DMark2001SE.

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As for the drivers, avoid 81.98, as it can't detect DVI-D monitor properly: After setting the resolution and a reboot, the monitor results in a black screen, but the OS is alive. If I plug in a VGA monitor, I can see desktop on it, but the DVI monitor is still black, but it can work if set as the second monitor. This bug was gone after downgrading to 77.72.

# Sound Card
I went with my Legend/Lenovo Audio Ace, it was a common piece of hardware present in Legend desktops. It worked perfectly under 98, including legacy emulation under DOS and 98.

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For DOS sound support, I went with the latest 3.16 driver and PhilsComputerLab's MS-DOS Mode Super Easy. I tested Doom, Quake and Rusty (a 1993 Japanese Castlevania-like game with great BGMs composed for OPL3), all of them worked out of the box with the default A220 I5 D1 T4 settings, both FM and PCM.

# Benchmarks
3DMark 2001 SE: 7778 (98SE), 8443 (XP)
AIDA64 Memory: Read 3137 MB/s, Write 3143 MB/s, Copy 2995 MB/s, Latency 53.6 ns
CPU-Z Vintage: Int 2872.0, FP 10431.2

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PC#1: Ryzen 7 3700X / MSI X470 GAMING PLUS MAX / RX 9070 XT
PC#2: Core i9 13900H / Lenovo ThinkBook 16p Gen4 / RTX 4060 Laptop
PC#3: Xeon E3 1230 v2 / Gigabyte Z77M-D3H / GTX 760
PC#4: Pentium E5800 / Gigabyte 8I865GME-775-RH / X800 XT AGP / Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 1 of 4, by sydres

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Nice! You gave some good ideas to adapt when "proper" hardware isn't easily available. It seems that that sound card with its Yamaha chip is the key.
I am not sure how available they are in your country but another option to look for is older thin clients, some Early ones have decent built in audio hardware. Some thin clients have ISA slots or PCI slots and so can be interesting and useful for win98/DOS.

Reply 2 of 4, by Wurenji

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sydres wrote on Yesterday, 12:23:

Nice! You gave some good ideas to adapt when "proper" hardware isn't easily available. It seems that that sound card with its Yamaha chip is the key.
I am not sure how available they are in your country but another option to look for is older thin clients, some Early ones have decent built in audio hardware. Some thin clients have ISA slots or PCI slots and so can be interesting and useful for win98/DOS.

Yes, as the model number suggests it has a Yamaha YMF724 chip.

Thin client is an option, but thin clients that can run Windows 98 could be a little bit harder to find, most of them in the secondhand market are from the Win7 era or later, with Intel Atom or comparable AMD and not compatible with 98 anymore... If your main target is XP or later, it's easy to get a G41 + Core 2 Duo bundle for less than 100 yuan, a better option...

PC#1: Ryzen 7 3700X / MSI X470 GAMING PLUS MAX / RX 9070 XT
PC#2: Core i9 13900H / Lenovo ThinkBook 16p Gen4 / RTX 4060 Laptop
PC#3: Xeon E3 1230 v2 / Gigabyte Z77M-D3H / GTX 760
PC#4: Pentium E5800 / Gigabyte 8I865GME-775-RH / X800 XT AGP / Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 3 of 4, by Ydee

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You can also use the SATA ports in W98, but you need to set the RAID mode in the BIOS and install the VIA RAID driver for W98/SE. They will then be seen in the Device Manager as a SCSI controller.

Reply 4 of 4, by sydres

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Wurenji wrote on Yesterday, 14:26:
sydres wrote on Yesterday, 12:23:

Nice! You gave some good ideas to adapt when "proper" hardware isn't easily available. It seems that that sound card with its Yamaha chip is the key.
I am not sure how available they are in your country but another option to look for is older thin clients, some Early ones have decent built in audio hardware. Some thin clients have ISA slots or PCI slots and so can be interesting and useful for win98/DOS.

Yes, as the model number suggests it has a Yamaha YMF724 chip.

Thin client is an option, but thin clients that can run Windows 98 could be a little bit harder to find, most of them in the secondhand market are from the Win7 era or later, with Intel Atom or comparable AMD and not compatible with 98 anymore... If your main target is XP or later, it's easy to get a G41 + Core 2 Duo bundle for less than 100 yuan, a better option...

Like I said I wasn't sure how available thin clients are in various countries. Recently I purchased a Maxspeed brand thin client with a via c3 and a PCI slot for about thirty US dollars it's definitely fast or slow enough for win98 and I believe all the drivers are available. Currently experimenting with various PCI sound cards ess solo-1, als4000, Yamaha ymf744 under DOS. But I have two others that run win9x natively. I have a bit of love for thin clients.