Well you've done all the sensible tests. It should work. The only condition you may not know of is that the TR CD must be in the CD drive that has the earliest letter in the alphabet.

It also possible that other types of removable drive that have a letter earlier than your CD drive could cause problems

(not the original Unregistered)

Please read the following thread:
showthread.php?threadid=1453

>>The only condition you may not know of is that the TR CD must be in the CD drive that has the earliest letter in the alphabet.
<<<

Oh... the problem is I have a DVD-Rom drive that has the lowest letter but that doesnt read sub-channels, only the CD-RW drive does that and it's the next letter up... without subchannels I don't get any audio at all. In fact I'm running TR/UB in Alcohol 120%'s virtual CD ROM drive and that has the highest drive letter of all.

Is there any way to reassign that or the CD-RW drive as the lowest letter without swapping around the IDE cables on the drives?

sub-channels? What's that then? The TR music uses ordinary audio tracks. Can your DVD drive play audio CDs?

Originally posted by Unregistered Oh... the problem is I have a DVD-Rom drive that has the lowest letter but that doesnt read sub-channels,

Not relevant. Like Paul says, TombRaider uses standard CD-audio tracks. However it's possible that:

1) your DVD drive doesn't have an audio cable hooked up to your sound card (and your drive isn't configure to use Digital CD-audio)
and/or
2) your DVD drive's CD-audio has been muted (somewhere within the many settings possible in Volume control).

I've having this same problem with present DVD drive. Unfortunately, I can't seem to enable digital audio on it anymore.

Is there any way to reassign that or the CD-RW drive as the lowest letter without swapping around the IDE cables on the drives?

Use Disk Management portion of "Computer Management" tool (Start --> "Control Panel" --> "Administrative Tools") to change your "DVD" drive to a higher letter, then change your CD-RW to the lowest letter available.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Not relevant. Like Paul says, TombRaider uses standard CD-audio tracks. However it's possible that: […]
Show full quote

Not relevant. Like Paul says, TombRaider uses standard CD-audio tracks. However it's possible that:

1) your DVD drive doesn't have an audio cable hooked up to your sound card (and your drive isn't configure to use Digital CD-audio)
and/or
2) your DVD drive's CD-audio has been muted (somewhere within the many settings possible in Volume control).

I've having this same problem with present DVD drive. Unfortunately, I can't seem to enable digital audio on it anymore.
Use Disk Management portion of "Computer Management" tool (Start --> "Control Panel" --> "Administrative Tools") to change your "DVD" drive to a higher letter, then change your CD-RW to the lowest letter available.

Ok -
1) I poked around inside my PC and indeed the DVD ROM drive doesn't have an audio cable connect to it, only the CD-RW drive has that. I did enable digital audio on that drive (had no idea you had to do that) as you suggested but Glidos refused to have anything to do with it! The TR menu starts up (minus the music) but if I try and select Lara's home or the Game the Glide server shuts down at that point. I had to un-enable digital audio to get to work again. ePSXe manages to play the soundtrack ok though, wierd.

2) So thats how you do it in win2k... thanks. I configured the drive with the CD audio as the lowest letter. It didn't make any difference though.

Originally posted by Unregistered the DVD ROM drive doesn't have an audio cable connect to it, only the CD-RW drive has that. I did enable digital audio on that drive (had no idea you had to do that)

You don't normally. Then again, normally, you should have an audio cable connected to a drive that you expect to play audio.

2) So thats how you do it in win2k... thanks. I configured the drive with the CD audio as the lowest letter. It didn't make any difference though.

Two things to try:

1) Start up Window's Media Player and tell it to play the audio tracks on your PC "Tomb Raider" CD. Does it play the CD-audio?

2) Try installing and configuring a "Standard" Tomb Raider (No GliDOS). Then install VDMSound (the 1st step should already be completed ).

Then copy SAPUCDEX into your Windows "system32" directory.

After starting the game for the first time with VDMSound (Run with VDMS with the little musical note), quit and you will find the VLP file it created.

Right-click the VLP file and choose Properties, click the Advanced button, click on the "DOS Environment" tab, then type SAPUCDEX into the AUTOEXEC.BAT box. Click OK, then click OK again.

Last I had checked, the menu music ran fine, the "background audio" looped ever few seconds.

Does this work?

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Then again, normally, you should have an audio cable connected to a drive that you expect to play audio.

Duh. I meant that I didn't know that you had to have digital audio enabled to play TR. It's connected to the CD/RW drive because it reads faster than the DVD drive and it reads sub-channels which the DVD drive doesn't, so I figured it was better connected to that than the other. There doesn't seem to be an option for more than one drive to be connected at a time to the sound device. *Shrugs*

1) Start up Window's Media Player and tell it to play the audio tracks on your PC "Tomb Raider" CD. Does it play the CD-audio?

Ok. First of all WMP doesn't recognise that theres any audio tracks on the CD at all but that could be because I havn't upgraded it from the version 6.4 that came with Win2k CD-ROM. WMP is a horrible piece of software and I usually use Real Player or Zoom Player or anything other than WMP but neither of these would read the tracks either. However windows CD player did play the audio tracks alright so that seems to be ok.

Try installing and configuring a "Standard" Tomb Raider (No GliDOS). Then install VDMSound (the 1st step should already be compl […]
Show full quote

Try installing and configuring a "Standard" Tomb Raider (No GliDOS). Then install VDMSound (the 1st step should already be completed ).

Then copy SAPUCDEX into your Windows "system32" directory.

After starting the game for the first time with VDMSound (Run with VDMS with the little musical note), quit and you will find the VLP file it created.

Right-click the VLP file and choose Properties, click the Advanced button, click on the "DOS Environment" tab, then type SAPUCDEX into the AUTOEXEC.BAT box. Click OK, then click OK again.

Last I had checked, the menu music ran fine, the "background audio" looped ever few seconds.

Does this work?

Ok... first of all I can't install a "standard" Tomb Raider on Win2k, it simply refuses to run at all. If I click on Tomb.exe it just gives me a blank screen and the Install program simply exits to Windows if the CD autoruns it if I put it in the drive. Paul Gardiner's TR Installer program from Glidos.net was the only way I could get the files to install at C:\Tombraid. In fact the only way I could get TR/Glidos to work at all was by downloading a patch that this guy had written on another forum. It at least will let it run under Glidos at least, even if not in "standard" form, but minus the music it seems. I guess I'll have to get back to him about it.

I added SAPUCDEX.EXE to System 32 (I also copied the sapucdex.dll as well), I added "SAPUCDEX.EXE" to the AUTOEXEC.BAT option etc in VDM. However none of that worked...

What did work however is that I installed TR and Glidos onto Windows 98 and unlike Win2k the menu music does work as well as the ambient sounds so it seems to be a problem specific to Win2k.

Originally posted by Unregistered I meant that I didn't know that you had to have digital audio enabled to play TR.

You don't. You do need to have the CD in the drive with the lowest drive letter. If that drive has no audio cable hooked up to it, you need to enable Digital Audio if you want the CD-audio. Otherwise, it shouldn't need Digital Audio enabled.

There doesn't seem to be an option for more than one drive to be connected at a time to the sound device.

That depends entirely on the audio device. Many soundcards (and even some motherboard audio chipsets) allow for two or three audio inputs.

Ok. First of all WMP doesn't recognise that theres any audio tracks on the CD at all but that could be because I havn't upgraded it from the version 6.4 that came with Win2k CD-ROM. This is unusal WMP is a horrible piece of software and I usually use Real Player or Zoom Player or anything other than WMP but neither of these would read the tracks either.

I just picked WMP because I was fairly certain that it would be on your PC. It is kind of unusual that RealPlayer wouldn't see it.

However windows CD player did play the audio tracks alright so that seems to be ok.

Ok, so the audio tracks are showing up. I'm guessing the other players were having a problem discerning the presence of audio tracks due to the data track at the start.

Ok... first of all I can't install a "standard" Tomb Raider on Win2k, it simply refuses to run at all.

Ok, that's a major problem. Even if you have audio problems it should still allow you to install it with the "No Sound Card" option.

If I click on Tomb.exe it just gives me a blank screen

Well, for a "standard" install, you would have to keep track of (and swap out) the 3dfx and DOS versions .

In fact the only way I could get TR/Glidos to work at all was by downloading a patch that this guy had written on another forum.

Is this the replacement TOMB.EXE for the 3dfx version? I know of no patches other than those for the 3D-accellerated versions.

It at least will let it run under Glidos at least, even if not in "standard" form, but minus the music it seems. I guess I'll have to get back to him about it.

It's starting to sound like there are actually multiple issues.

I added SAPUCDEX.EXE to System 32 (I also copied the sapucdex.dll as well), I added "SAPUCDEX.EXE" to the AUTOEXEC.BAT option etc in VDM. However none of that worked...

I should have clarified that I was referring to running it in Win2k. SAPUCDEX and VDMSound were for getting audio in Win2k. Sorry for not being more specific.

What did work however is that I installed TR and Glidos onto Windows 98 and unlike Win2k the menu music does work as well as the ambient sounds so it seems to be a problem specific to Win2k.

Sounds about right. I'm suspecting there's a VESA issue for your video card in Win2K. You run any other titles in Win2k that go beyond VGA resolution (640x480x256 colors or any other SVGA/VESA resolution)?

Success! I've got it to work! I acted on a hunch and disabled the other two CD/DVD ROM drives leaving just the one with the TR CD active, rebooted the machine, started up Glidos and TR started with the music playing! However if I re-enable either or both of the other drives I lose the music again. Strange eh? The drive with the TR CD in is the one with the lowest letter just like you told me. This is with Win2k of course. TR with Win98 works just fine and with the other drives enabled just so long as the TR drive has the lowest letter assigned to it, so its a Win2k only problem.

Dunno about the VESA issue but it seems to require it to work for Win2k because I had to add:

VESAsupport: Yes

to the Glidos.ini file to get it to play Unfinished Business without getting the blank screen.

Not too strange. And regarding WMP/RealPlayer, they both use the Win32I/O stuff so whenever there is DATA (not CD audio) on a CD it will see that and not the extra audio tracks.

Originally posted by Unregistered However if I re-enable either or both of the other drives I lose the music again. Strange eh?

Very strange. The only other time I've seen that behavior is with "Age of Rifles". But in that case it was the actual game code that killing the audio. Here...well it doesn't make any sense.

The drive with the TR CD in is the one with the lowest letter just like you told me. This is with Win2k of course. TR with Win98 works just fine and with the other drives enabled just so long as the TR drive has the lowest letter assigned to it, so its a Win2k only problem.

It might be a Win2K+? problem as I haven't heard of any other Win2K users with this issue. Maybe Paul has...

VESAsupport: Yes

to the Glidos.ini file to get it to play Unfinished Business without getting the blank screen.

Well, I guess the good news is that you at least got it running. No idea why if forced you to disable the other drives to get audio.

Originally posted by Snover Not too strange. And regarding WMP/RealPlayer, they both use the Win32I/O stuff so whenever there is DATA (not CD audio) on a CD it will see that and not the extra audio tracks.

Hrmm. WMP v8 seems to see them fine. Odd.

The letter (logical order) is actually irrelevant -- or more precisely, is not enough by itself. The position of the device in the IDE/SCSI chain (physical order) is important as well. Some programs don't specifically ask for the drive letter, they just scan the complete chain and ask for the removable device that appears as the first one in the system. Glidos seems to be one of those programs.

For example, Nero's ImageDrive virtual CD always installs itself as device 0 in my system -- thus it will appear first in my chain no matter what I do or what letter I choose for it, and Glidos will ask for a disc in this drive. On the other hand, Daemon Tools usually installs itself as the last device in my chain (6) and doesn't interfear with my standard ATAPI drives. Since Daemon Tools is able to read Nero's images, I kept ImageDrive installed (mandatory for keeping Nero's compatibility) but I simply disabled it in the Device Manager so it doesn't appear anymore in my chain. Problem solved.

Your mileage may vary depending on your installed devices (internal IDE/ATAPI drives, external SCSI drives, virtual drives). But the rule is to have your main CD-ROM drive appear as the first removable device in your chain -- both logically and physically.

Kaminari wrote:

The letter (logical order) is actually irrelevant -- or more precisely, is not enough by itself. The position of the device in the IDE/SCSI chain (physical order) is important as well. Some programs don't specifically ask for the drive letter, they just scan the complete chain and ask for the removable device that appears as the first one in the system. Glidos seems to be one of those programs.

For example, Nero's ImageDrive virtual CD always installs itself as device 0 in my system -- thus it will appear first in my chain no matter what I do or what letter I choose for it, and Glidos will ask for a disc in this drive. On the other hand, Daemon Tools usually installs itself as the last device in my chain (6) and doesn't interfear with my standard ATAPI drives. Since Daemon Tools is able to read Nero's images, I kept ImageDrive installed (mandatory for keeping Nero's compatibility) but I simply disabled it in the Device Manager so it doesn't appear anymore in my chain. Problem solved.

Your mileage may vary depending on your installed devices (internal IDE/ATAPI drives, external SCSI drives, virtual drives). But the rule is to have your main CD-ROM drive appear as the first removable device in your chain -- both logically and physically.

Fascinating. Is there any way to actually change the order of devices in the chain? (I'm guessing by the fact that you had to disable Neroimage drive you can't easily).

Following this information I installed Neroimage drive and Nero InfoTool revealed what the chain of drives were on my system. Like you said Imagedrive installed itself as the first device (0:0) with the CD ROM drives later. Like you said even though the drive with TR in was changed to the lowest letter it was in fact the last removable device in the chain. (2:1)

So... I loaded a Nero image of the TR CD into Imagedrive, changed Imagedrive to the lowest letter (so now it's the first device in the chain and the lowest letter - and - guess what - it still won't play properly i.e TR will still only play the music with the other drives disabled!

I guess it's just one of those mysteries - like why the DVD ROM drive simply refuses to go into DMA mode (although Win98 has no problems doing the same thing)

Thanks for the help guys.

Go into your system and do jumper hopping. 😀

Originally posted by Kaminari The letter (logical order) is actually irrelevant -- or more precisely, is not enough by itself. The position of the device in the IDE/SCSI chain (physical order) is important as well. Some programs don't specifically ask for the drive letter, they just scan the complete chain and ask for the removable device that appears as the first one in the system. Glidos seems to be one of those programs.

At the risk of bending a spoon, I don't think that is correct. Using the "Computer Management" tool I changed my H: cd-rom to an O: cd-rom and my M: drive was changed to H:... As far as the computer is concerned, the M:->H: drive was the "middle" CD-ROM (#2 of 3 CD-ROM devices).

Tomb Raider played fine off of this drive, both with and without GliDOS (although I was missing CD-audio with GliDOS).

I get your point, Nicht. Obviously my post needs some clarification, but I'm afraid I'm not qualified in English enough to explain it better. And besides, there is no spoon ;b

Suffice to say that, indeed, the logical order does matter if the only drives you have in your system (CD-ROM. CD-RW, Jaz, whatever) all share the same IDE/SCSI bus. It's all that needs to be remembered.

My lame essay was actually targeted at situations where you have installed *virtual* SCSI buses like ImageDrive or Daemon Tools, which most of the time prevail on the standard bus and make the logical order irrelevant. I learnt it the hard way!

Unregistered wrote:

I guess it's just one of those mysteries - like why the DVD ROM drive simply refuses to go into DMA mode (although Win98 has no problems doing the same thing).

I confess I don't quite understand myself the whole shebang 🙄

Kaminari wrote:

Glidos seems to be one of those programs.

Its TR that has the problem. Glidos just tries to preempt it. There's a line in the glidos.ini file that can be removed, and then Glidos will let TR get on with crashing.