8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

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8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-26 @ 13:06

Among my exapansive library of soundfonts for my SBLive I have several that includes patch mapping for the MT-32:

"2MB E-mu Systems GM GS MT Revision N" and "2MB E-mu Systems GM GS MT Revision N++" : 2GMGSMT.sf2

as well as "4MB E-mu Systems GM GS MT Revision N" : 4GMGSMT.sf2

I found several things on the Internet of folks talking about an 8MB version of this soundfont, "8GMGSMT.SF2"... but only a few obscure messages.

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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby leileilol » 2010-10-26 @ 16:13

Doesn't the SB Live 5.1 ship with that one on the disc? I'd have to check
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby Zup » 2010-10-26 @ 16:38

Yes. It was downloadable from creative sites, and it was also shipped with Soundblaster PCI64 and PCI128.

When you downloaded the drivers for those cards, the driver included the 2mb soundfont... but when installing the driver, the computer asked for the 4mb and 8mb soundfonts.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby HunterZ » 2010-10-26 @ 16:42

I'm almost positive that my either my SB PCI128 and/or my SB Live X-Gamer came with 2, 4 and 8MB SF2's, and that they had MT-32 patch sets built in on an alternate bank number that could be switched to via MIDI commands.

I also had an SF2 from a third party that had *only* MT-32 patches in it.

I have no idea whether I still have those laying around any more or not. I may still have the installation CDs for one or both cards.

My real SC-88 also has an MT-32 mode (actually it's a CM-32 or CM-64 or something mode) that, as with the SF2 files, only had the default MT-32 patch set and cannot accept custom MT-32 parameters via SysEx. I compared it to my real MT-32 in Wizardry 7 and they sounded almost exactly the same (slight difference in reverb but barely noticeable).
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby swaaye » 2010-10-26 @ 19:07

So this must be quite different than the ubiquitous 8mbgmsfx.sf2, if it exists.

I haven't heard of it before.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby HunterZ » 2010-10-26 @ 19:52

Never mind, I was thinking of the one swaaye mentioned. I've never heard of the one rfnagel mentioned.

Considering that the MT-32 ROM is only like 128KB, I doubt that the 8MB SF2 would have any difference in the MT-32 bank samples compared to the 2MB and 4MB SF2s.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby rfnagel » 2010-10-26 @ 20:56

Thanks for the info, folks :)

I'm thinking that most people are thinking of either the 8MBGM.sf2 or the 8MBGMSFX.sf2.


swaaye wrote:So this must be quite different than the ubiquitous 8mbgmsfx.sf2, if it exists. I haven't heard of it before.


Yeah, the 8MBGMSFX.sf2 has a custom percussion preset that is a sound effects bank (percussive preset #56, Bank 000), similar to GS. The MT-32 soundfonts have a melodic MT-32 compatable instrument mapping, and all of the MT-32 presets are set for Bank 127.


HunterZ wrote:My real SC-88 also has an MT-32 mode (actually it's a CM-32 or CM-64 or something mode) that, as with the SF2 files, only had the default MT-32 patch set and cannot accept custom MT-32 parameters via SysEx.


IIRC your SC-88 works similarly. When set for MT-32 mode, all MIDI playback is sent to Bank 127 (the MT-32 instrument mapping). Similar things also work for an SBLive (with a soundfont loaded that includes an MT-32 patch set on Bank 127), as well as most of the Yamaha XG synths (including the S-YXG50 softsynth).


leileilol wrote:Doesn't the SB Live 5.1 ship with that one on the disc? I'd have to check


Lemme know if you find one on the CD... I'd be REAL interested in it :) The quality would be a bit better than the 4GMGSMT.sf2 soundfont.


HunterZ wrote:Considering that the MT-32 ROM is only like 128KB, I doubt that the 8MB SF2 would have any difference in the MT-32 bank samples compared to the 2MB and 4MB SF2s.


With the 2GMGSMT.sf2 and 4GMGSMT.sf2 they don't use custom samples for the MT-32 instruments, but rather simply remap exisitng GM ones contained in the soundfonts to match the proper ones for MT-32 playback. That's why I'm thinking that the 8GMGSMT.sf2 (if there is such a beast) would prolly sound better :) To me, the 4GMGSMT.sf2 sounds quite a bit better than the 2GMGSMT.sf2 version.


@All,

Handy-dandy MIDI file attached that "kicks" any compatable hardware into MT-32 emulation mode. Note that this is for any harware, soundfonts, newer XG hardware (and even the S-YXG50 sogtsynth), that has an MT-32/CM-32/CM-64 patch map on Bank 127 :)
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-12-15 @ 07:05

Ok so I started playing around with my Live! 5.1 Digital and Audigy LS cards.

First I installed W95B but I couldn't get the Live! 5.1 Digital going. The web installer told me it doesn't find a card and the installation CD I downloaded from the internet froze my machine and it wouldn't boot anymore LOL

The Nvidia driver for my MX440 installed fine, but after reboot I got some error messages pop up. I also couldn't find a chipset driver for the ALI Aladin V chipset...

I couldn't test the Audigy LS because there are no W95 drivers on the Creative site, only W98 and higher.

W95B installed quickly, but boy that IE4 installer takes its time. I ALT+F4'd it as it became a bit frustrating.

So next I installed W98SE hoping I had more luck...

Took a lot longer to install. Maybe it's machine elated, at the moment it's a Cyrix at 133 MHz with 128MB Ram.

Well the Live! 5.1 Digital game me the same error (can't find Live! card), so I'm assuming for now that this card is dead. It shows up fune at booting (PnP stuff) and also as "Audio Device" in Device Manager.

This now also explains why this card wouldn't work with the DOS drivers for me...

Next up was the Audigy LE for which there was only a "mini" driver on the Creative site. So just the driver without the applications to load fonts. However the driver installed fine and the card does output sound! At least a small win for me today LOL

Will hunt the Internet for an Audigy installation CD.

Now I also wanted to compile a summary of all these *.ECW and *.SF2 files:


The CD is called "Live!Ware 3.0" and the Readme File is from September 1999.

I did a search on that CD for *.ECW and *.SF2 files. There where a ton of *.SF2 files, but I only focused on the "obvious" candiates.

These are the files and folder locations I found on my Live!Ware 3.0 CD:

Image
Image

Just for reference here are the *.ECW files that come with Ensoniq's DOS AudioPCI drivers:

Image

And these are the *.ECW files from Creative. I believe I got at least two of these files directly from the Creative support site:

Image
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby rfnagel » 2010-12-15 @ 07:29

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:I did a search on that CD for *.ECW and *.SF2 files. There where a ton of *.SF2 files, but I only focused on the "obvious" candiates.


Most of the driver CD-ROMs for SF2 compatable sound cards from Creative include a bunch of SF2+MIDI demos. If you see any matching filename SF2s and MIDIs, load the SF2 and then play the MIDI... that is, assuming that you can find some way to install the SoundFont Control Panel applet in order to actually load soundfonts <grin>.

Anyhoo, some of those SF2+MIDI demos are extremely cool. Some of my favs, which I have a good hunch could possibly be on your driver CD:

Concerto.mid/Concerto.sf2 by Ashley Witt (actually, that may have came from the X-Fi driver CD that I bought).

Africa.mid/Africa.sf2 by Herb Jimmerson (same as above).

BloodWar.mid/BloodWar.sf2 by Jess Donovan Skov-Nielsen (EXTREMELY COOL! ...and winner of one of Creative's music contests eons ago).

Dragon.mid/Dragon.sf2 by Kevin Shepherdson (similar to above!).

FunkMia1.mid/FunkMia1.sf2 and RiffMia1.mid/RiffMia1.sf2 by Kew Yong Fatt.

Those are just a few notable ones that I could think of off the top of my head... as I have TONS of those type of combos (SF2+MIDI demos) from Creative CD-ROMs :)


(EDIT) P.S. I'm rather surprised that your driver CD-ROM didn't include the old standard "8MBGM.SF2" soundfont.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-12-15 @ 07:35

mid/SF2 list coming... Watch the space

Downloaded an Audigy CD from the Internet. Hoping it will work LOL

EDIT: Doesn't work :-(

I guess the CD is for the real Audigy. My card is an Audigy LE which is likely one of these "let's remove all the Audigy goodies" and call it Audigy LE :-)

UPDATE:

Here are all the *.SF2 files. There don't seem to be any midi files, but some other files. I take it these work with one of Creative player application?

Anyway here are the files:

Image

Image
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby rfnagel » 2010-12-15 @ 07:59

The soundfont in your first pic are samples of what came with the "Liveware ESC SoundFont Library" 500 soundfont CD-ROM. Heh, years back Creative Labs offered all of the soundfonts from that CD-ROM for download from their web site... releasing 10 or so every week.

Even on my sorry-arsed dialup connection, I managed to (weekly) download EACH and every single one of them :) Anyhoo, those are some of the ones that were included on that CD-ROM.

The second pic:

I dunno what an "MV3" file is (?), but the "WRK" file is a native Cakewalk Pro fromat file.


P.S. Judging by the first pic, I'm pretty sure I have that exact same CD-ROM (for SBLive) laying around here somewhere or another.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-12-15 @ 08:02

Yea I'm not having much luck with these PCI / Windows products LOL

DOS FTW...

Might purchase another Live! and give it another shot. I downloaded your custom soundfont already. My X-Fi should come soon, so I might test it with that card + DOSBox on my main quadcore machine.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby rfnagel » 2010-12-15 @ 08:06

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:Might purchase another Live! and give it another shot. I downloaded your custom soundfont already. My X-Fi should come soon, so I might test it with that card + DOSBox on my main quadcore machine.


You'll definitely like it :)

BTW, for you (or anyone else) interested, attached is a directory listing of my collection of soundfonts.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-12-15 @ 08:21

Lession learnt today:

Never EVER buy a Creative card with SE or LE in the product description LOL
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby rfnagel » 2010-12-15 @ 08:51

I'm assuming that SE/LE means something like "Special Edition"/"Light Edition" (just a-wondering)?

I figure that's their new term for "Value Edition". My SBLive is one of those (a used Dell pull), but I've had good success with that card :) Mind you, there are a few annoying things, but only MIDI musician related... prolly would go unnoticed by the average user.

(EDIT) Note that I have never installed an SBLive under/in *anything* but my own current rig; Intel P4 2.666ghz, 512MB RAM, WinDoZe XP Pro SP3, with DOSBox, so's I can't comment about any other (slower) PC or OS/DOS.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-12-15 @ 08:58

I'm sure it would have worked fine, but it turns out the cards is dead.

It's a Live! 5.1 Digital which also mentions (Dell) when you download the drivers. It's not a SE / LE at all. On the contrary the 5.1s are superior to the first Live! cards that came out.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby retro games 100 » 2010-12-15 @ 09:25

Info re: Dell SB Live! cards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blas ... 1_Dell_OEM (copy and paste all for link to work. Also read next paragraph)
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-12-15 @ 10:24

retro games 100 wrote:Info re: Dell SB Live! cards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blas ... 1_Dell_OEM (copy and paste all for link to work. Also read next paragraph)


That's not the one I have! I have this one:

Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 Digital (Dell OEM, SB0220)

This was a later, improved model. The EMU10K1 chip was put back, as was hardware EAX/DirectSound/DirectSound3D acceleration. [5] Nowadays there are working Windows drivers available for download from Creative's website (filename LiveDrvUni-Pack_ENG_.exe). It was recommended somewhere that all recording should be done in 48 kHz sampling rate, because there was an issue with hardware downsampling.
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby unmei220 » 2010-12-15 @ 14:34

I remember Creative cards had some problems with Cyrix processors. For example, an AWE64 won't work right with a Cyrix CPU. Did you try the Live! in a machine with another CPU ?

http://drivers.downseeker.com/download/11213/creativesound-blaster-live-cyrix-patch-for-live-5.1-digital-dell-and/
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Re: 8GMGSMT.SF2 SoundFont?

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2010-12-15 @ 15:42

Thats interesting though I can tell you that my AWE64s work just fine with the Cyrix CPU...

I have a 233MMX underway and won't change cpus until then. The Live! 5.1 Digital card is still here and I will try it with that cpu just to be 100% sure :-)
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