Bah!
Where is my USB OPL2/3? 😁

I somehow doubt Yamaha even produces them anymore.

[Edit]
Hmm...
I've been thinking about this for a while, what about writing a driver either for Windows or a kernel module on linux for direct access to the OPL hardware?

Then, applications such as Dosbox could be patched to use authentic hardware directly.

Of course you would need the hardware installed, but it may be an interesting project in the future.

swaaye wrote:

There are many larger soundfonts. Once you get to a Live! you can load huge soundfonts that are hundreds of MB.

Say, is there a driver for the SoundBlaster Live!(model CT4780) that allows you to load SF2 soundfonts and also has the SoundBlaster 16 emulation driver? I found two different sets of drivers, and I can either get the SoundBlaster 16 emulator or the ability to load SF2 soundfonts, but not both.

The only way to use soundfonts with DOS games with a Live! or Audigy is by using DOSBox or VDMSound to remap the MIDI to the Windows MIDI interface.

The SBLive! DOS emulation uses the AudioPCI driver and the ecw wavesets. This is the same in both pure DOS and Windows DOS box.

Lame! Looks like it's time to hunt down a SoundBlaster AWE32 or build an adapter to use SIMMs on the AWE64(or directly solder a SIMM to the AWE64).

Question: does the AWE32 daughterboard have hanging notes when used in conjunction with a SoundBlaster 16? Or is that problem just limited to MIDI daughterboards? I have a SoundBlaster 16 WavEffects model CT4170, in case your wondering(and I believe this has the hanging MIDI notes bug since, if I remember correctly, it uses DSP version 4.12. It also does not have a wavetable header).

AWE32 daughterboard?

I found several AWE32 boards that are meant to work alongside a SoundBlaster 16(they will not work by themselves). Here's an eBay listing for one such AWE32 daughter card(it's actually a daughter card): http://cgi.ebay.ca/Vintage-Creative-CT1920-AW … =item483a5fafe8

I'm a little out of it today, so I might say one thing while meaning something else.

But I'm thinking: since I have a SoundBlaster 16 WavEffects, I might pick up a SoundBlaster AWE32 daughter card. Either that or get a SoundBlaster 32. I found one model with a discrete YMF262, and I'm interested in picking up. I hope it'll be a good all-in-1 replacement for my OPTi 82C929A. Either that or just get a Yamaha MIDI daugtherboard.

Interesting. It's a CT1920 "Goldfinch" card - never heard of those before.

Would the notes hang on this card if used with a SoundBlaster 16 containing a buggy DSP?

From my experience, I would avoid the SB16 and even the entire Sound Blaster line all together.**
You cannot unhear the stuck notes and that shiny new daughterboard will be useless until you find another card.

** Cookie to anyone who is thinking what I'm thinking

Ace wrote:

Would the notes hang on this card if used with a SoundBlaster 16 containing a buggy DSP?

No, the hanging notes issue does not occur with the EMU8000 AWE synth on either the full AWE cards or the CT1920 AWE upgrade, it goes only for the MPU-401 either on the WB header or the Gameport. Gameport midi on the SB16 is actually the same circuit as the WB header.

TheLazy1 wrote:

From my experience, I would avoid the SB16 and even the entire Sound Blaster line all together.**You cannot unhear the stuck notes and that shiny new daughterboard will be useless until you find another card.

Agreed, and SB16 is not even SBPro Compatible too. If you take the best out of all these many creative cards, you just end up a little short from what you could do with a good SB clone card, eg ESS, Crystal, C-Media, Opl3-Sax. IMHO

gerwin wrote:

Agreed, and SB16 is not even SBPro Compatible too.

But AFAIK this only affects Stereo digital sound effects. And when I asked this question here and on queststudio there seem no games that have Stereo digital sound effects but don't support the SB 16 anyway...

I see this argument brought up all the time but can't find a practical example...

Considering that, one should also ask oneself, is there a dos game with actual 16-Bits digitized sounds? (thus 16 bit WAV files instead of 8 bit).

That seems to be another one of these "Retro myths" that people use to justify one card over the other 🤣 and when you look closer you actually don't find any games supporting this feature...

AFAIK most DOS games use rather low quality recording. Definitely not CD quality at all...

Well I have a SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 and many other SoundBlaster Pro clones, so I'm covered on that end.

gerwin wrote:

If you take the best out of all these many creative cards, you just end up a little short from what you could do with a good SB clone card

Agreed. I noticed inferior sound quality from my SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 with digitized sounds(almost sounds downsampled) than on all my SoundBlaster Pro clones and even my SoundBlaster 16 WavEffects and SoundBlaster AWE64(though these suffer from stuck digitized sound at times where a digitized sound will never finish playing)

gerwin wrote:

ESS

Slight flaw with the white noise in the ESFM, but most ESS sound cards work very well, especially the AudioDrive and Solo-1. The one ESS sound card I have with major flaws is the Maestro-2, which uses a poorly-cloned YMF262 that outputs sound at a higher pitch, can sometimes sound downsampled, and likes to hit false notes a lot.

gerwin wrote:

Crystal

Are you kidding??? I've used a Crystal CS4235, and that thing is a pile of crap! The cloned YMF262 is trash(MANY incorrect notes on top of constant fluctuations in gain that cause MAJOR distortion) and the DOS support is EXTREMELY glitchy.

gerwin wrote:

C-Media

I have a CMI8738(PCI) which has a perfect replica of the YMF262(aside from not holding notes as long and outputting some slightly muffled sound), but I was unable to get its SoundBlaster 16 support to work correctly. No matter what I do, I either get a little portion of a sound effect looping for infinity(with the Windows 95 drivers) or sound that plays at double speed(with the DOS drivers). Maybe I should get a CMI8330(my main criteria: it MUST work with the floppy disk edition of Star Wars X-Wing using the SoundBlaster sound option)?

gerwin wrote:

Opl3-Sax

These should be superior to a real SoundBlaster Pro. Since it's Yamaha who makes this, there will be no imperfections in the FM Synthesis.

I have a few ESS AudioDrive cards. They have a wavetableheader, I found compatibility excellent (every game I tried worked) and although the are PnP, they "just work" even without any drivers or initialization.

The on board amp is also very very loud I noticed. This might be of interest if you are using passive speakers.

Definitely a card I can recommend

I'm curious, what sound card would you guys choose to directly replace a SB Pro 2? When I say "directly", I mean a replacement card doesn't have to have anything more than what is already on the SB Pro 2 card. So, no wavetable header, 16-bits, PCI, etc. Just a "like for like" replacement, that has better SNR. Thanks.

IMO one of the better cards regarding SNR is the AWE64 Gold. Has nice RCA outputs and even SPDIF if you like but it's not a direct replacement as per your definition...

There are plenty of SB Pro clones I believe, but no idea which one has a better SNR. The ESS AudioDrives I have are excellent SB Pro clones, but I don't know how the SNR rates and they don't have OPL either (although I believe that the ESS chip is very very good regardless)

However there are things you can to improve your SB Pro. In the mixer muting all the inputs not used can help, so can reducing the master volume but increasing the other volumes until you find a setting that gives you a clear signal with minimal noise...

OK, thanks a lot. I have an AWE64, and I like its clean sounding output. Actually, I think I could have worded my question better. Rather than saying "no" to things like wavetable header, 16 bits etc, I should have said "I don't mind if the replacement card has this or does not have this". So, that makes the AWE64 more of a contender, but I was really hoping for something a little bit more retro.

Perhaps an ESS would be the best choice? Or perhaps a Crystal or Opti card would be best? My number one priority is SNR. Number two priority is no Creative product, because I have too many of them! 😉 Thanks. 😀

Edit: If I do a search on German ebay for opti soundkarte (or ess or crystal), the results are plentiful. Can someone please helpfully point out a couple of good cards? Thanks a lot if possible.

I can't speak for the signal-to-noise-ratio of my OPTi 82C929A, but I will tell you this: it's the best ISA sound card I've ever used. Mine uses a discrete Yamaha YMF262(NOTE: some have cloned YMF262s, sometimes as a single chip apart from the 82C929A or as two chips each labeled LS-xxx, one which is the YMF262 and the other the YAC512 DAC), has very nice SoundBlaster Pro support and has its audio amp made in such a way that the bass notes are made rougher. Just one problem: the Stereo is COMPLETELY reversed on my particular OPTi 82C929A, both on the SoundBlaster part and on the YMF262.

Here's a little sample of what my particular OPTi 82C929A sounds like courtesy of the Collector's CD-ROM edition of Star Wars X-Wing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F2uU3K0Ps0

FYI: I was using cheap cables to record the audio, so there's noticeable background noise - since I'm using all my classic gaming PCs on a TV, I'm using a 3.5mm headphone to RCA cable, and in order to do video capture with my TV capture device, I use the Composite and S-Video outs of each computer's graphics cards, which is why the picture quality isn't too great in the video and there's a huge black border around the video(that's overscan, what you can't see on a TV, well, at least on a CRT TV, which is what I use as a monitor for my classing gaming PCs)

I love the added roughness of the FM Synthesis on this sound card. It might sound different on other 82C929As. I should take a picture of my particular 82C929A.

If you get an 82C929A, be sure to install the DOS drivers ONLY. DOS drivers insure optimal compatibility with DOS games.

Make sure you avoid the OPTi 82C931. It has TERRIBLE FM Synthesis with several incorrect notes and some noticeable and rather annoying volume balance problems. Many notes are either too loud or too quiet, there a few instances of volume spikes and it does not hold its notes at all. When they end, they end, they're not prolonged for a little bit like on a real YMF262. The SoundBlaster Pro support is inferior to the 82C929A, and it doesn't even address the AdLib port(I/O range 388), at least not under Windows 95 using Windows 95 drivers.

I don't know about the other OPTi sound cards, so I can't help you for that.

DO NOT get a Crystal CS4235. That thing is one of the biggest pieces of crap I've seen when it comes to sound cards. LOUSY FM Synthesis, HORRIBLE DOS support, simply put: it's a complete mess.

ESS AudioDrives are very good too. Just don't expect perfection from the ESFM, ESS' cloned YMF262, however, it's as close to perfection as cloned YMF262s get. Even the cloned YMF262 used on the AWE64 is less faithful to the real YMF262 than the ESFM. The only flaw I've noticed with the ESFM is a slight imperfection in the white noise. Oh, and the high frequencies aren't as muffled.

You should also consider Yamaha's YMF7xx series of sound cards, both PCI and ISA(priority to the ISA sound cards). Those contain ASIC-based YMF262s(the YMF262 is integrated within the YMF7xx), and if you get a PCI-based YMF72x or YMF74x, you'll get the XG wavetable along with 100% authentic OPL2 and OPL3 FM Synthesis.

Someone here made a list of sound cards which listed their chipsets and if the card had real OPL2/3 hardware.
I believe some Crystal chipsets have real OPL hardware as well, it depends on the chipset version and card maker.