Sound Blaster Live! DOS Drivers

[WolverineDK]

swaaye is it okay, if I multi upload the iso image ? and then give out the link here ? cause as you know, I will only do it. If you give me permission to do it.

[swaaye]

Which ISO are you talking about? You can upload whatever driver ISOs you like.

[WolverineDK]

swaaye, I am of course talking about your iso file of the live drivers

http://www.multiupload.com/AOYCAHO0OO

[swaaye]

Oh ya that one. For some reason I was thinking of XP.....

[fdlchris]

I know. I'd at least expect the sound card to be recognised when running it in MS-DOS under Windows 95, but even that doesn't work!!! Even though the card drivers (and SB16 Emulation) drivers are installed correctly and no conflicts.

Now what? I'm thinking of formatting and starting again. I have my suspicions it is something to with the W95 installation, but cannot prove it just yet.

[fdlchris]

Nope. Another installation of Windows 95 didn't work.

I even installed a raw installation of Windows 95, immediately copied my faithful DOS directory across to the C:\ drive and run my boot floppy.

Still no sound. So it's not the W95 installation. It can only be either :

1) the DOS drivers that I'm using and the setup of my AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS (posted earlier - please check).

2) The actual machine and it's BIOS configuration, which somehow prevents the SB16 Emulation detection.

[fdlchris]

Can someone please provide me some information on alternative PCI sound cards I can purchase and try to get sound working in real DOS.
I mean cards other than Creative and which don't rely on Creative's SB16 Emulation drivers to get it to work. What other brands can I try?

[Mau1wurf1977]

Aureal Vortex 2 have been recommended. I actually bought one but haven't gotten around to test it yet...

[swaaye]

Vortex cards have the added bonus of a functional MIDI DB header. But they don't have SB16 support.

[fdlchris]

I just want a sound card that can provide sound effects, MIDI support and CD audio playback for classic DOS games.

Looking in the game audio setups, there are other popular options to choose besides from Sound Blaster compatible products. The difficult part is trying to find one of these supported by a sound card that is PCI.

So Vortex 2 cards will be a good choice, because they support Ensoniq Soundscape, is that right?

[swaaye]

No the Vortex cards only support SB, SBPro, and Adlib. And General MIDI + MT-32 emulation if you have a MIDI DB attached. The only cards that support Ensoniq are Ensoniq cards. The Live! supports SB, SBPro, SB16, Adlib and General MIDI through software synthesis. Maybe some awful MT32 emulation as well. FM synthesis is pretty bad too.

Live's DOS MIDI is pretty bad even with the 8MB ecw waveset. A Vortex with almost any DB will completely blow it away. But these cards are both poor for FM synthesis. And sometimes the DB header will malfunction in games (I've put Vortex through its paces in DOS).

Honestly I've pretty much given up on PCI sound cards in DOS because they are just a lot of trouble.

What you could do is plug in something like an ESS ES1868 ISA card, most of which can have a MIDI DB attached. Just use it for DOS. These are pretty foolproof and have excellent FM and SBPro support. Much more likely to work without problems because the way the PCI cards emulate ISA IO is very "invasive" and problematic. You should try to find one that's full width and has the DB header in the same position as a SB16 to prevent DB fit issues.

[Mau1wurf1977]

Honestly I've pretty much given up on PCI sound cards in DOS because they are just a lot of trouble

Same!

The time and effort you will spend on fiddling with PCI cards. Well you might as well just bite the bullet and buy / build another PC with ISA slots.

Or just use DOSBox which has perfect Yamaha OPL Emulation and you can use real MIDI modules through USB MIDI adapters, or excellent software emulation (SoundFonts).

[wocko1]

Like what Mau1wurf1977 said and like I did, it's just much easier just to use DOSbox instead of dicking around with buggy DOS drivers just to get the SB Live working in DOS, or IMO even pissfarting around with the PCs that Fred Flintstone chucked out last year. Not to mention it's cheaper to use DOSbox instead of trying to hunt down ISA hardware. That's what I did.

SB emulation works brilliantly in DB and I have no problems using my external MIDI sound modules (Roland MT-32, Roland CM-32L, Roland SC-55mkII and a Yamaha MU80) via USB to MIDI adapters I bought from Jaycar, even those MT-32 games that use SysEx patches, like all those old Sierra On-Line classics, work brilliantly! All this on a machine that is an AMD Athlon II 250 Dual Core, running Windows 7, and running a SB Audigy 2 ZS sound card.

My 2 cents: You really don't have to muck around with old PCs just to play all those classics. One day, the hardware might die one day, and it'll be a hell of a time, trying to track down replacement parts. (I just wish Roland would get off their arse and release a good MT-32/CM-32L/Sound Canvas emulator instead of using bloody lawyers to stop others from making one). Yamaha made a pretty good XG softsynth, but sadly, left it to rot.)

[swaaye]

I'm with you wocko1. I really can't be bothered to mess with my 486 box anymore. Not only is it a guaranteed way to blow a day, but even if it works perfectly it can't touch the flexibility of DOSBOX.

But some of the people on the forum here are still interested in playing with old hardware like that and if it makes them happy that's cool. I think we were all in their shoes at some point.

[fdlchris]

I fully understand you guys, and you are giving me the best advice to be able to play classic DOS games on a future-proof system.

I'm currently away from home (working in another country) so I have to settle with playing my classic DOS games on my ASUS EEE 901 20G via DosBox ... until I got this old ISA-less rig off my girlfriend (AthlonXP 1500+, ASUS A7V8X-X, 256Mb RAM) with the intention of putting in an SB Live! and thinking it would be a piece of piss installing DOS drivers and having the classic DOS games running off that.

I'm just still in that mode (and in love) with my old hardware and it doesn't seem to die off.

Back at home (in the UK), I currently have a DELL Dimension XPS M200s (P1-200 MMX with integrated Vibra16 sound with AWE32 ISA daughterboard) and I use it for all my classic gaming.
I just prefer that genuine real DOS gaming, and until the wheels fall off this thing, DOSBox will always come second. I even have an AWE64 Value! ISA and I'm constantly torn whether to remain with the AWE32 daughterboard, or pull it out and stick in the AWE64 instead - what do you guys think to this?

For years, I have been contemplating building a 3dfx system (AthlonXP 2700+, Chaintech 7VJL APOGEE, V5 5500) and phasing out the DELL XPS.
But the 7VJL APOGEE doesn't have ISA slots.
I love my AWE 64 and on top of that, when I finally build it, there may be a chance that I will have the same problem with that, what I'm having now with this A7V8X-X - that a PCI soundcard will not be able to emulate SB16 in DOS. It's a really worrying thought for me.

[Mau1wurf1977]

A Pentium is a lot more suitable. IF the BIOS has options for turning off L1 and L2 Cachen, because then you can turn the machine into a 386DX and a fast 468.

IMO a Pentium or even Super Socket 7 gives you the best compromise of price, ease to find, flexibility and compatibility (they are often ATX and use PS/2).

The choice of soundcards you mentioned shouldn't matter at all. They will all sound the same.

That AWE32 daughterboard sounds interesting. What exactily is it?

[fdlchris]

http://web.archive.org/web/19970605141309/www.dell.com/products/dim/xps/indepth.htm

This is an archived page of my XPS model. It doesn't say much about the AWE32 though.

The AWE32 is just a Wavetable upgrade card that was factory supplied by DELL depending on what package you purchased. Mine came with the card pre-installed.

I won't insult your intelligence by describing what a wavetable upgrade card actually is.

I've compared it with the AWE64 and in some games, I'm almost sure I can notice a few mini-minor differences. The AWE64 sounds clearer and has less noise.

[Mau1wurf1977]

That's a neat system!

Of the AWE64 sounds clearer, just go with that!

[fdlchris]

Hey guys,

I'm sorry to come back to this topic but I don't like to be beaten by legacy hardware!

To all SB Live! users out there, has anybody successfully got SB16 Emulation working on their SB Live! whilst it sits inside a VIA KT333 or KT400?

I just want to rule this out as a factor to the problem I'm still having.

[janskjaer]

I gave up trying to get PCI sounds cards like the AudioPCI, Live! and Audigy to work with DOS. There's just too many problems.

I went with an older system using an AWE64. It's the best way.