Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby ratfink » 2011-3-06 @ 08:52

rfnagel wrote:THAT is how "At Doom's Gate" should SHOULD on all Yamaha XG compatable hardware :)


To my ears this is great :lol:.

I'm probably talking rubbish, but I don't suppose there's any way to load a pre-game midi file to an xg-daughterboard to make it sound that way when you play a game? Along the lines of those xg reset files - thanks for those megaload.ru links by the way, I'd failed to find any trace of software for the sw60xg or db50xg on the yamaha site.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-06 @ 09:13

ratfink wrote:To my ears this is great :lol:.


Glad ya liked it :)


ratfink wrote:I'm probably talking rubbish, but I don't suppose there's any way to load a pre-game midi file to an xg-daughterboard to make it sound that way when you play a game?


Unfortunately no. The original MIDI files require specific XG type sysex commands embedded within them, and it's extremely dependant on the MIDI file... what channel is assigned to what instrument, etc...

BTW, snag XGEdit 95 from the megaload.ru (I think) site... with that you can twiddle with all of the parameters and special effects that most any XG hardware (or the S-YXG50 softsynth) supports.

I suppose that if one wanted to edit all of any given game's MIDI files, and then compile/re-embed them back into the game, you could do it that way... PITA though, to say the least <grin>.

Nevertheless, XGEdit 95 is a lot of fun to play around with :)


ratfink wrote:Along the lines of those xg reset files - thanks for those megaload.ru links by the way, I'd failed to find any trace of software for the sw60xg or db50xg on the yamaha site.


Yer welcome! :)


P.S.

"THAT is how "At Doom's Gate" should SHOULD on all Yamaha XG compatable hardware :)"

I *meant* to type "THAT is how "At Doom's Gate" COULD/SHOULD sound on all Yamaha XG compatable hardware :)" <grin> :)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby TheMAN » 2011-3-06 @ 09:38

rfnagel wrote:Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods" again!

I extracted the music "At Doom's Gate" (by Robert Prince) from the "Hangar" level (Episode 1 Map 1) of id Software's DOOM, and then converted and optimized the MIDI file for Yamaha XG format. I then recorded it to an MP3, and uploaded it here -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/D_E1M1_XG.mp3 .

THAT is how "At Doom's Gate" should SHOULD on all Yamaha XG compatable hardware :)

P.S. If you have any Yamaha XG compatable hardware (or the Yamaha S-YXG50 software synthesizer), here's the MIDI file -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/D_E1M1_XG.mid :)


although it sounds totally awesome on my DB50XG, it doesn't sound quite the same as your MP3... there's more reverb in the MP3 and the drums sounds a lot warmer... in either case, it sounds totally badass!
I don't remember it sounding this good, other than with the YMF262!

sounds like crap on the AWE32 or WB2 for sure!
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby F2bnp » 2011-3-06 @ 09:42

Of course it sounds crap on anything not XG compatible. Even on Roland.
It does sound pretty awesome on my db50xg as well though :D
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-06 @ 09:53

F2bnp wrote:It does sound pretty awesome on my db50xg as well though :D

TheMAN wrote:although it sounds totally awesome on my DB50XG, it doesn't sound quite the same as your MP3... there's more reverb in the MP3 and the drums sounds a lot warmer... in either case, it sounds totally badass! I don't remember it sounding this good, other than with the YMF262!


Glad ya liked it :) Yeah, as far as the reverb, when I recorded the MP3 I cheated a bit and used some of my SBLive's EAX reverb... anyone who knows me knows I LOVE reverb <grin> :) BTW, I recorded it using the Yamaha S-YXG50 softsynth (I don't (currently) have any XG hardware).


TheMAN wrote:sounds like crap on the AWE32 or WB2 for sure!

F2bnp wrote:Of course it sounds crap on anything not XG compatible. Even on Roland.


Hehe, although the overdrive and distortion guitars are NOWHERE the same, my SBLive with my custom WeedsGM3 soundfont makes it sound quite respectable. But, nevertheless, it can't hold a candle to the tube amp distortion effects of the XG compatable stuff :)

The EAX effects on the SBLive also include various overdriven and distortion effects (as well as various echo, reverb, chorus, and flanger effects), but unfortunately they don't sound ANYTHING like the effect processors on the XG stuff.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby TheMAN » 2011-3-06 @ 10:05

I love my DB50XG living inside my windows 7 box, running on an el cheapo $5 sound card :D
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby Markk » 2011-3-06 @ 12:04

I played that midi file on my pentium pc where I have a nec xr385 on a sb awe32, and it sounded great. Then there happened something strange. It was like all the effects where turned on during the playback, and where left in that state. I tried some regular midi files afterwards, and they sounded really weird and distorted because of that. Then I try to reboot, and it played the same. And finally the effects where turned off when I switched off the pc.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-06 @ 14:06

TheMAN wrote:I love my DB50XG living inside my windows 7 box, running on an el cheapo $5 sound card :D


Hehe, I myself have even tossed around the idea of two aditional el cheapos (with wavetable connectors) so's I could put my good old WB1 in my current rig; then, I could buy a DB50XG and also install that one as well... that in conjunction with my SBLive <grin> :)

Currently I have an old AMD500 with an ISA slot to house my WB1 (mounted on an SB16).


Markk wrote:I played that midi file on my pentium pc where I have a nec xr385 on a sb awe32, and it sounded great. Then there happened something strange. It was like all the effects where turned on during the playback, and where left in that state. I tried some regular midi files afterwards, and they sounded really weird and distorted because of that. Then I try to reboot, and it played the same. And finally the effects where turned off when I switched off the pc.


That's a weird one. Sounds to me like the NEC XR385 isn't full XG compatable. But yeah, a power-off would be the only way to correct it with a daughterboard ('twould be the same as powering down an extrenal MIDI module).
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-06 @ 14:11

P.S. If ya want, for comparison, attached is the same MIDI *without* the XG stuff... simply General MIDI.

(Edit )Updated ZIP: Contains two MIDI files; GM with reverb and chorus, and GM without reverb and chorus (like the original from DOOM was).
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D_E1M1_GM.zip
Updated: Contains two MIDI files; GM with reverb and chorus, and GM without reverb and chorus (like the original from DOOM was).
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-07 @ 09:10

P.S. Updated the ZIP, contains two MIDI files:

GM with reverb and chorus

GM without reverb and chorus, like the original from DOOM was (that is what you would normally hear in DOOM with XG hardware).
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby TheMAN » 2011-3-07 @ 09:53

if you ever decide to sell your WB1, I have first dibs! :D
but it's even better if you come across one

I should've paid the 80 bucks for the one I saw on ebay many years ago... it was in box! :depressed:


as for the effects being "left on", I experienced the same thing on my REAL DB50XG... I ended up having to "reset" the card to play my dwango midis
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-07 @ 10:11

TheMAN wrote:if you ever decide to sell your WB1, I have first dibs! :D
but it's even better if you come across one


Hehe, "I'll give up my WB1 when they pry my cold dead fingers from it." LOL!


TheMAN wrote:I should've paid the 80 bucks for the one I saw on ebay many years ago... it was in box! :depressed:


Keep looking, no telling, you might just stumble upon one on Ebay. I do remember though, a few months ago when I built up an old clinker to house my WB1 (that hadn't been powered up for several years), out of curiosity EBay-ing for a WB1... not a SINGLE listing!


TheMAN wrote:as for the effects being "left on", I experienced the same thing on my REAL DB50XG... I ended up having to "reset" the card to play my dwango midis


That's stranger indeed. Although, I've seen similar things with my old AWE32 cards. Seems that if a MIDI file had reverb, chorus, and NRPN MIDI controllers in it, and then you played a MIDI that omitted those controllers; the WB1 would still have those MIDI controllers jacked way up.

The only way to reset it was with a complete power-down. That being said, I don't ever remember my WB1 suffering from that problem, I could reset it simply with the included DOS utility that came with it (it would reset the WB1 to it's power-on defaults).


@All, BTW, I uploaded the following files for y'all here -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG :

http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... nstall.zip
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... Manual.zip
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... pgrade.txt (READ THIS BEFOR UPGRADING!)
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... pgrade.zip

http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... owcase.zip (included on the DB50XG CD)
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... lume_2.zip (included on the SW60XG CD)
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... _Songs.zip (comes with the Yamaha S-YXG50 softsynth)
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... _Songs.zip
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... _Songs.zip (Not official Yamaha MIDIs, but I like 'em)
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... _Songs.zip
http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_X ... _Songs.zip


(edit) Added link to "Yamaha_MU50_XG_Song_Showcase_Volume_2.zip"
Last edited by rfnagel on 2011-3-11 @ 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby TheMAN » 2011-3-07 @ 10:18

offtopic: did you buy your WB1 new or just used/bare card? I have the WB1 drivers/utils disk, but only the zip file and not the actual rawrite image of it.... would be much nicer to have the "real" thing :D

I've been looking for a WB1 off and on for years and haven't seen it on ebay except that one time where that thing was in the box and ridiculously expensive

I just want one to hear how "bad" it sounds, plus to add to the collection
now I just need help finding one! it's great that there's many of us into retro gaming/hardware now :)

my WB2 sounds pretty close to my AWE32.. it lives with the AWE32 right now... got it brand new back in 1996
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-07 @ 10:52

TheMAN wrote:offtopic: did you buy your WB1 new or just used/bare card? I have the WB1 drivers/utils disk, but only the zip file and not the actual rawrite image of it.... would be much nicer to have the "real" thing :D


I bought mine brand new from a local PC store back in 1992 (IIRC). Yes, I still have the original install floppy (as well as the manual and errata sheet), but it's been 'unreadable' for several years now... unfortunately, I couldn't recover it at all.


TheMAN wrote:I just want one to hear how "bad" it sounds


*THAT* is where you'll get an argument from me LOL! The WB1 rocks :)


TheMAN wrote:my WB2 sounds pretty close to my AWE32.. it lives with the AWE32 right now... got it brand new back in 1996


Now, if you're comparing the WB1 to the WB2 (in other words, if all that you've heard is a WB2), there is no comparison. Dunno if you've seen one (or two) my previous replies here in the forums; Back in the day, I took my WB2 back for a refund the EXACT same day that I bought it LOL!
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby Markk » 2011-3-07 @ 14:22

I played the layla live midi file and being a guitar player, I was really impressed by the sound of the guitars! I found also some more xg files, and all sound awesome. And I noticed, the problem with the effects left on didn't appear with any other file, just only while playing that doom e1m1 file. Weird...

btw, I ordered two more nec xr385s......
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-07 @ 15:57

Markk wrote:I played the layla live midi file and being a guitar player, I was really impressed by the sound of the guitars!


Snag that XGEdit 95 that I was talking about before... you can "XG-a-fy" most *any* MIDI (with pop/rock instruments) to sound like that :)


Markk wrote:I found also some more xg files, and all sound awesome. And I noticed, the problem with the effects left on didn't appear with any other file, just only while playing that doom e1m1 file. Weird...


That is rather strange. AFAIK I edited the MIDI file to meet XG "standards", meaning (in this order); a GM reset, an XG reset, all other XG effect processors sysex dumps (overdrive, etc...), and then various MIDI controllers (all notes off, reset all controllers, etc...).


BTW, three of my "official Yamaha XG" favs:

"D_RP_02X.MID" (in the Yamaha_XG_Free_Song_Data_Library.zip file, in the "ROCK" directory)

"03EG_XG.MID" (in the Yamaha_XG_Wonderland_Songs.zip file)

"21BIRD.MID" (in the Yamaha_MU50_XG_Song_Showcase.zip file)

:)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby TheMAN » 2011-3-07 @ 18:47

rfnagel wrote:
TheMAN wrote:offtopic: did you buy your WB1 new or just used/bare card? I have the WB1 drivers/utils disk, but only the zip file and not the actual rawrite image of it.... would be much nicer to have the "real" thing :D


I bought mine brand new from a local PC store back in 1992 (IIRC). Yes, I still have the original install floppy (as well as the manual and errata sheet), but it's been 'unreadable' for several years now... unfortunately, I couldn't recover it at all.


TheMAN wrote:I just want one to hear how "bad" it sounds


*THAT* is where you'll get an argument from me LOL! The WB1 rocks :)


TheMAN wrote:my WB2 sounds pretty close to my AWE32.. it lives with the AWE32 right now... got it brand new back in 1996


Now, if you're comparing the WB1 to the WB2 (in other words, if all that you've heard is a WB2), there is no comparison. Dunno if you've seen one (or two) my previous replies here in the forums; Back in the day, I took my WB2 back for a refund the EXACT same day that I bought it LOL!

is the disk totally unreadable or can you even get a "dir"?
would be nice to know what the volume label says and also the actual label itself... then I can make a "fake" image with all that info and send it to you
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-08 @ 10:25

TheMAN wrote:is the disk totally unreadable or can you even get a "dir"? would be nice to know what the volume label says and also the actual label itself... then I can make a "fake" image with all that info and send it to you


Unfortunately the disk is completely unreadable, currently nothing but a beverage coaster.

BTW, I just remembered something -> http://sites.google.com/site/waveblastergm/install , courtesy of WBMan, who has posted here at Vogons on several occasions :)

Oh, also, IIRC the volume label may have just been "WAVEBLASTER", but I can't really remember. That fits the 11 character DOS volume label spec, and sounds fairly "official" to me <grin>.
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby TheMAN » 2011-3-08 @ 17:08

cool
what he posted is newer than what I got too... funny how there's PIF file that doesn't belong there ;)
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Re: Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG

Postby rfnagel » 2011-3-08 @ 17:39

TheMAN wrote:funny how there's PIF file that doesn't belong there ;)


Heh, prolly where he (or someone else) ran the DOS installer within WinDoZe <grin>.
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