VOGONS


Practice PC # 2 - retro PC - Windows 98

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Reply 20 of 106, by AlienBZ

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Ok, let's get back to business, people. I took that PC apart (partly) as when I fired it up to nuke the HDD and install DOS 6 on it, it seemed to be dead (after I replaced the Dell floppy drive with this PC's original floppy drive and replaced the eject bottom onto this floppy drive), b/c I was thinking that maybe something was connected wrong. In the process I tested the mobo by disconnecting both the back mobo panel from the tower, taking out the PSU, placing the mobo on a nonconductive surface, connecting the PSU connector to the mobo PSU connector and plugging the AC power cord into the wall socket and the PSU power socket, and the HS/F spun like crazy! So the mobo is alive and kicking.

Now I'm going to need some help here, fellas, to ID the female connectors (cords from devices) with the male connectors (prongs/pins on the mobo), so could you please ID each item and tell me what goes where?

Here we go -

toppsu4prongconnector.jpg

What is this connector? What goes on this?

thickgraycord.jpg

What is this cord? Where does it get plugged into?

powerbuttoncord.jpg

I suspect that this is the front bezel on/off button cord - am I correct? If not, please correct me?

mobo.jpg

What the mobo looks like.

malepowerconnector.jpg

bottom R mobo male connectors 001 - how exactly (on what pins) does the front bezel female connector connect to to ensue a properly functioning PC?

bottompsu3prongconnector.jpg

3 pin male (near PSU socket) mobo connector - what goes on this?

bottommobomaleconnectors.jpg

The entire layout of the bottom R mobo male connectors - what goes where?

As aways, thanks in advance!

Reply 21 of 106, by Tetrium

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I still think you'll save yourself a lot of trouble by using a standard ATX case with lots of room inside to work with.

What's the model number of your motherboard?
Those pins could be used for a lot of things, even though they might appear the same as on any other board.

Check the motherboard for any markings and post them here.
Pics of the marking would also be very good

This one:
3 pin male (near PSU socket) mobo connector - what goes on this?
has marks very close to it, reading PS_FAN, indicating it's a fan.

But really, you should try to locate it's manual before attempting to mess with it or you might risk destroying the board while this could be easily avoided by RTFM 😉

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Reply 22 of 106, by prophase_j

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AlienBZ wrote:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd225/KellySt10/New%20Practice%20Computers/Practice%20PC%202/toppsu4prongconnector.jpg […]
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toppsu4prongconnector.jpg

What is this connector? What goes on this?

That is either a bank for jumpers, or more likely, a header to attach additional USB ports.

thickgraycord.jpg

What is this cord? Where does it get plugged into?
Looks like a redbook audio cable. One end goes to the CDROM and the other end goes in a sound card, or motherboard if it is built in.

powerbuttoncord.jpg

I suspect that this is the front bezel on/off button cord - am I correct? If not, please correct me?
Very likely.

mobo.jpg

What the mobo looks like.

malepowerconnector.jpg

bottom R mobo male connectors 001 - how exactly (on what pins) does the front bezel female connector connect to to ensue a properly functioning PC?
I notice on the picture of the bezel's harness, that one of the pins is blocked off. You can also see on the header's bottom row, there is one absent. Looking at the silk screen on the motherboard, there is writing next to this header, and lines drawn to help understand of that header is broken into sub groups. Based on this detail it is clearly seen the bottom row is where the harness belongs.

bottompsu3prongconnector.jpg

3 pin male (near PSU socket) mobo connector - what goes on this?
That kind of header is commonly used to connect a cooling fan. Looking at the silk screening next to it, is says PS_FAN, indicating that it would be used for a power supply (I have only ever seen power supplies with essentially a tachometer lead, never one that required this connection) or other nearby ventilation source.

bottommobomaleconnectors.jpg

The entire layout of the bottom R mobo male connectors - what goes where?
The silk screen says COM2, so that header should be for a serial communications port.

As aways, thanks in advance!

You really, really should go to library and get a book on A+. That will help you to identify and see what some of this nuts and bolt stuff is for. Also, most motherboards have some degree of information present in the silk screened words, and when your better familiarized with it's appearance and jargon, careful observation will usually be all that is required. With that said, whenever in doubt, Read The Friking Manual.

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Reply 24 of 106, by sliderider

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These little machines aren't bad for running as they are, but the OEMs were very careful not to make their machines too futureproof. They wanted you back in the store buying another one in a year, not still using the same one 3 or 4 years later. Either they didn't give you enough memory slots, enough PCI slots, or enough CPU multiplier or FSB jumpers and forget about options in the BIOS. You would be lucky if you could disable the crappy onboard video they gave you when you put an almost as crappy PCI video card in because there was no AGP slot. They also made the insides as cramped as possible to discourage you from putting your hands in there or they would use proprietary voltages on the motherboard so when it came time to upgrade the motherboard or the power supply, you had to upgrade both because you couldn't use a ATX power supply with their motherboard or a ATX motherboard with their power supply. Another trick was they would make the power supply an odd shape so an ATX power supply wouldn't fit in the case. You wouldn't even be able to reuse the case if you got stuck with one of those. Relocating the screw holes in the motherboard so they aren't in the same locations as an ATX board was a really devious trick because you wouldn't know they'd done it until you bought an ATX motherboard and were trying to fit it and couldn't get more than 1 or 2 screws to line up. Dell was infamous for crap like this during the slot 1 era. I always check out every machine I get from that time period to make sure they weren't monkeying around with the voltages at the factory and that a standard ATX power supply and motherboard will screw into the case. It's best to check before you run into an insurmountable obstacle or turn on the power and blow something up.

Reply 25 of 106, by Tetrium

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Or have a look at the link at the bottom of this post 😁

Those OEM boards tend to be a lot harder to identify, but if you could post pics of the boards and any serial-number-like thingies here, I could possibly help you find the manual 😉

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Reply 26 of 106, by ibm5150pc

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I have a PC just like this, same thing. It's got a bad floppy drive, disk I/O error on boot. I don't care for those HP's like this, too cramped and to hard to work on and no room for add in's. But to the Op, there no better way then learn PC's then hands on, I started back in 95 at age 9, just messing around, and 16 years later I know my way around very well, And as other has said read read read. Learn the different form factors ATX AT BABY AT and there parts MFM VS IDE ISA PCI MCA S-100 and so on Good luck!

Reply 27 of 106, by AlienBZ

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I'm back. I think this mobo is a baby AT (micro AT), correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, here's what I think is the mobo model numbers -

mobokind.jpg

this is how the mobo's screw holes are lined up,

placementofmoboscrews.jpg

and this is the kind of case slot for this particular PSU,

slotforpsu.jpg

I'm thinking of maybe looking for a mid-tower case someplace on the internet in which to place all the components from this PC into after stripping the original case and then turning in the old case for recycling at Best Buy's Geek Squad - what do you think about this, folks?

Reply 29 of 106, by Tetrium

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By the look of the font I'd say it's an ASUS.

Lemme do a quick google...

Edit: Manual was the 1st in google to show up.
Link: http://www.motherboards.org/files/manuals/1/p5svm-103.pdf

Edit2:Wow, UDMA/66? Nice! 😁

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Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 30 of 106, by AlienBZ

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Jorpho wrote:

...What exactly was the point of this again?

To get this PC in a working state, wipe the HDD, install DOS, next, Win 3.11 and try to recreate the problem with installing Windows that my brother in law solved back in Dec 2001 in my old Packard-Bell when the old version of Windows was preventing me from installing (re-installing, actually ) windows 3.11 b/c the old version wasn't booting up when I typed win <enter> at the DOS prompt just for the sake of learning how to solve computer problems, and afterwards, hopefully sell (or most likely, donate this PC to someone in need) as a Retro Gaming PC after I learn how to solve computer problems in DOS/Win 3.11.

Anyway, I just found out that this mobo is a Socket 7.

Reply 31 of 106, by AlienBZ

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Tetrium wrote:

By the look of the font I'd say it's an ASUS.

That's what I was getting upon googling "PS5 - VM motherboard" a few minutes ago - links to sales of Ausus mobo's.

Tetrium wrote:

Edit2:Wow, UDMA/66? Nice! 😁

What, may I please ask, is a UDMA/66? Anyway, I cannot access the manual in your link.

EDIT - found this, which I think is the specs of the mobo.

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupp … jectID=bph04949

EDIT 2 - I was able to access the manual from your link in Firefox, Tet

Reply 32 of 106, by Jorpho

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Oh, I thought this was a different board from before.

AlienBZ wrote:

That's what I was getting upon googling "PS5 - VM motherboard" a few minutes ago - links to sales of Ausus mobo's.

I think that's "P5S-VM", actually.

What, may I please ask, is a UDMA/66?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDMA

Reply 33 of 106, by AlienBZ

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Well, I got the HS/F and the CPU off of the mobo, but it looks like the CPU is either soldered/sealed onto the HS/F b/c no amount of effort would get the HS/F separated from the CPU, not even trying to pry it off the top of the CPU nor isopropyl alcohol (around the edges), so I gave up trying to take the HS/F off of the CPU and simply removed the entire HS/F and CPU together as 1 unit.

But I don't know if I broke the seal between the CPU and the HS/F in so attempting to remove the 2 components or not, so if I did, there must be some way to separate the CPU from the HS/F so I can apply thermal paste and reattach the CPU and HS/F back onto the mobo, but how?

hsfcpuoffmobo.jpg

Reply 34 of 106, by Jorpho

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AlienBZ wrote:

But I don't know if I broke the seal between the CPU and the HS/F in so attempting to remove the 2 components or not

I reckon they're either in contact or they aren't. If you still can get the HS/F off, I would not worry about some "seal" being broken.

Also, if the CPU is toast for some reason, I doubt taking the HS/F off and re-attaching it would accomplish anything anyway.

Reply 35 of 106, by sliderider

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Jorpho wrote:
AlienBZ wrote:

But I don't know if I broke the seal between the CPU and the HS/F in so attempting to remove the 2 components or not

I reckon they're either in contact or they aren't. If you still can get the HS/F off, I would not worry about some "seal" being broken.

Also, if the CPU is toast for some reason, I doubt taking the HS/F off and re-attaching it would accomplish anything anyway.

If the thermal compound has become old and crusty, then replacing it with fresh will re-establish good thermal contact and might help if the CPU is overheating. The thermal compound they apply at the factory is usually the cheapest, crappiest kind anyway so replacing it with a higher quality one would make it better than new. The only problem is sometimes the old thermal compound dries like cement and it can be a chore getting it off.

Reply 36 of 106, by jmrydholm

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Wow, I used to own an HP (well ok, it was my dad's) Pavilion. Had Windows ME on it, SBLive!, GeForce 2, a whopping 1Ghz processor and 256MB of Ram. Top of the line back in the day. I still use the monitor for my Pentium 166 Dell. I have the same floppy drive, but it doesn't seem to work now.

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Reply 37 of 106, by SavantStrike

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sliderider wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
AlienBZ wrote:

But I don't know if I broke the seal between the CPU and the HS/F in so attempting to remove the 2 components or not

I reckon they're either in contact or they aren't. If you still can get the HS/F off, I would not worry about some "seal" being broken.

Also, if the CPU is toast for some reason, I doubt taking the HS/F off and re-attaching it would accomplish anything anyway.

If the thermal compound has become old and crusty, then replacing it with fresh will re-establish good thermal contact and might help if the CPU is overheating. The thermal compound they apply at the factory is usually the cheapest, crappiest kind anyway so replacing it with a higher quality one would make it better than new. The only problem is sometimes the old thermal compound dries like cement and it can be a chore getting it off.

Tell me about it. I thought arctic silver was bad as far as how much of a mess it makes, but it always comes back off. The old silicon grease manufacturers used seems to have a service life of a few years until it gets to where it's unworkable.

I guarantee that cpu isn't glued to the sink, just the thermal compound has long since dried out and baked on. Try a knife and gently pry. Gently though!

Reply 38 of 106, by Jorpho

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SavantStrike wrote:

I guarantee that cpu isn't glued to the sink

But such arrangements exist, don't they? Or do they just not generally look like this one?

sliderider wrote:

might help if the CPU is overheating

Surely if the CPU was being used in conditions where it was overheating, it would have been rendered nonfunctional by now?

Reply 39 of 106, by AlienBZ

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Ok, I used the rear end (rounded) of the handle of a spoon and pried the HSF off of the CPU. Here's what they look like taken off:

hsf.jpg

Bottom side of HS/F - should I remove the mess the factory put on it?

cpu-1.jpg

The CPU, separated from the bottom of the HS/F - is it damaged, or is this how it's supposed to be? How do I tell if the CPU is roasted (toast, as you say)?