Reply 40 of 70, by sgt76
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wrote:Oh I like Intel...as long as it's product doesn't have anything to do with netburst 😜
Netburst gets no love here on Vogons 😢...
wrote:Oh I like Intel...as long as it's product doesn't have anything to do with netburst 😜
Netburst gets no love here on Vogons 😢...
wrote:Netburst gets no love here on Vogons 😢...
Not (yet). It might be for the next generation of VOGONS members though?
Basically anyone that grew up with a 3GHz Pentium 4 🤣
From what I've observed, Netburst-based machines are too fast for retrogaming, and too slow for running modern-day apps, so in other words they're USELESS. 🤣
wrote:From what I've observed, Netburst-based machines are too fast for retrogaming, and too slow for running modern-day apps, so in other words they're USELESS. 🤣
But otoh if you have a P4 3Ghz doing benchmarks while having it connected to a big screen, it certainly makes for an awesome electrical spaceheater/moving wallpaper 😁
Lets not be hypocritical here. If you want to label P4 as useless, then you also need to throw in the Athlons and perhaps Tualatin. I don't like the sound of that. 😀
An 845PE or 865PE/865G board makes for very reliable platform btw. No VIA instability or performance issues there. No wacky nForce PCI latency problems either. I think a ~2.66 GHz Northwood + 865PE is an underrated setup for the time. Too much AMD underdog fanboy stuff that I too was guilty of back then.
Hmm
I think we need to keep northwood and S478 in mind. IMO they did pretty well and most certainly a rock stable platform, just like you say.
I had a 2.6 GHz northwood machine with a Radeon 9800 and that machine was a DREAM.
But with S775 and presshot things took a turn in the wrong direction and I also switched to AMD. I got a cheap Sempron and overclocked it from 1600 to 2400. Best value machine I ever had.
AFAIK a top northwood system wasn't that much slower compared to an Athlon 64. At least that's what I remember, might be wrong though. It's been a while 🤣
Ok I was very wrong:
P4 sucked quite bad 🤣
PS:
That said, AMD is definitely proud of its new babies. The 4000+ will list at $729, and the FX-55 weighs in at an eye-popping $827.
Looking at the reviews, AMD was really cleaning up in games. I think that's why they have such a good reputation. In business applications (thanks to Intel CPU extensions) the gap is much closer and in video and music encoding Intel was actually ahead.
Well you need to remember that P4 was up against Athlon XP for much of its life. Yeah Athlon 64 is faster but I think an Athlon XP vs. Northwood is not even remotely as clear cut because of the Intel platform advantages. The CPU power consumption is pretty much the same too.
Yeah the Athlon 64 era was the only time in history when we saw AMD try to pull some Intel CPU pricing. That ended abruptly when Core 2 came out 🤣
All I remember is that this 2.6 GHz nortwood was my last Intel system until Core 2 Duo came out. That was an E6600 CPU. In between these two systems it was all AMD. And also recommending it to others and all of that...
I was an AMD guy after Pentium 3 and until Core 2. I use both companys' hardware these days though at work and at home. I might be getting an AMD Bulldozer setup if it ends up competitive.
wrote:Well you need to remember that P4 was up against Athlon XP for much of its life. Yeah Athlon 64 is faster but I think an Athlon XP vs. Northwood is not even remotely as clear cut because of the Intel platform advantages. The CPU power consumption is pretty much the same too.
Yeah the Athlon 64 era was the only time in history when we saw AMD try to pull some Intel CPU pricing. That ended abruptly when Core 2 came out 🤣
Northwood actually does consume more power then Athlon XP, even though the difference is quite minute. A Northwood 3.2Ghz has a max power dissipation of close to 90W while the Barton 3200+ stays under 80W.
Northwood has relatively fewer temperature related problems because of it's superior cooling solution (while the XP kept the clip-mounting system it inherited from the Socket 7 days, but in XXL 😜 ) and because it would simply throttle down if overheating (resulting in less performance).
The Preshot only made things worse for s478 and the LGA775 socket made Preshot put out an extra 10% heat on top of that! The only reason Preshot could still be cooled was because LGA775 was again a step-up in providing the CPU with a better cooling solution.
And I definitely like Intel chipsets. Over all (looking through the years) they have provided the best chipsets. Only problem is, the best Intel chipsetted boards I have laying around are for Netburst chips -_-.
Another strange thing I found was that a couple AGP 4x s478 boards I received during the past few months don't have support for 2x AGP cards. They look exactly like the typical AGP 8x slot, with a notch preventing an AGP 2x card from being inserted..quite odd.
Prescott is not so great, yeah. I got a free 3.2/800 that's neat to play with but you definitely want a modern cooler for those.
Intel's 845 and 850 chipsets don't support 2x. Strange but that's how it is I guess.
wrote:Yeah Prescott is a bummer. Pretend it doesn't exist and don't compare P4 to Athlon 64.
You could also consider how Phenom II is further behind Core i7 than Pentium 4 was behind Athlon 64. 😉
I'm not sure that is the case, at least if you're making comparisons with Preshot.
I'm not sure about Phenom II's power consumption. Modern processors are idling a lot of the time.
wrote:I'm not sure that is the case, at least if you're making comparisons with Preshot.
I'm not sure about Phenom II's power consumption. Modern processors are idling a lot of the time.
Well if someone is considering a Prescott retro furnace, they should stop and buy a modern machine 🤣. But some top Phenom IIs are 140W and some Core i7s are 130W. If you use all of the cores they are hot chips. My Q6600 is 105W.
There is a Prescott model with Speedstep and C1E but most of the Prescotts just sit there baking at full speed with only the basic C1 HLT state.
wrote:wrote:I'm not sure that is the case, at least if you're making comparisons with Preshot.
I'm not sure about Phenom II's power consumption. Modern processors are idling a lot of the time.Well if someone is considering a Prescott retro furnace, they should stop and buy a modern machine 🤣. But some top Phenom IIs are 140W and some Core i7s are 130W. If you use all of the cores they are hot chips. My Q6600 is 105W.
There is a Prescott model with Speedstep and C1E but most of the Prescotts just sit there baking at full speed with only the basic C1 HLT state.
My Phenom II quad is one of the 95W ones. I made sure of that before I bought it.
Prescott is indeed a thirsty beast- it needs a modern cooler and tons of power. For my 4ghz run (33% OC), I clamped on a CM Hyper N620- a huge twin 120mm fan beast and a Tagan 450w psu- which was barely able to keep up- though the fact thats it's pretty old also plays a part.
In the old days, my Athlon 64 3000+ could easily do a 33% OC from 1.8ghz to 2.4ghz using nothing but the stock cooler and I think I initially had a 300w psu or something like that. And run 24/7 like that with load temps in the 40s or so...
wrote:Well if someone is considering a Prescott retro furnace, they should stop and buy a modern machine 🤣. But some top Phenom IIs are 140W and some Core i7s are 130W. If you use all of the cores they are hot chips. My Q6600 is 105W.
There is a Prescott model with Speedstep and C1E but most of the Prescotts just sit there baking at full speed with only the basic C1 HLT state.
Lol @ the retro furnace 😁
Yup, some Phenom IIs are the 140W variety but afaik it's only a couple. I have the Phenom II BE @ 3.2Ghz but I made sure I have the 125W stepping instead of the older 140W one.
Btw, I'm still impressed with i7 being 130W. I have the idea it's at worst roughly the same speed as a Phenom II and at best a LOT faster due to it's newer architecture.
From a retro perspective the Thuban is an interesting chip though, it won't be made in very large numbers and will be the 'fastest' chip for AM3(non +).
The AMX family of sockets is a very interesting one though due to the very flexible nature of the boards + CPU's.
When it comes to LGA775 P4's, the die shrunk Cedar Mill's might have some interest though, as a very high clocked single core?
wrote:My Phenom II quad is one of the 95W ones. I made sure of that before I bought it.
Which one do you have? 😉
wrote:From a retro perspective the Thuban is an interesting chip though, it won't be made in very large numbers and will be the 'fastest' chip for AM3(non +).
Or the Sempron? The fastest single core CPU!!!!!
🤣
Hmmm...very good discussions...but don't you guys think it would be better to start another thread pertaining to these AMD and P4 cpu topics? 😁
I get confused when I come here looking for any further develpment in the suggestions of "the perfect unreal/half-life box". 🤣
wrote:Hmmm...very good discussions...but don't you guys think it would be better to start another thread pertaining to these AMD and P4 cpu topics? 😁
I get confused when I come here looking for any further develpment in the suggestions of "the perfect unreal/half-life box". 🤣
Doh! You're right. And here I am posting about P4/A64 in an unrelated topic even though I've recently created a new topic specifically about Intel vs AMD myself! 😅
I am so far behind the times you guys are talking Greek to me!
(My last computer build was an Athlon XP)