GLIDOS & eVoodoo...

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GLIDOS & eVoodoo...

Postby Stiletto » 2002-8-30 @ 01:31

Paul...

Curious if you ever contacted the eVoodoo guys about codeswapping...

I was looking around today and read at these interesting USENET posts:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=evoodoo&scoring=d&num=100&filter=0

Some people are actually getting some results in Windows games! Jeezus!
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Postby Glidos » 2002-8-30 @ 19:48

Yes evoodoo is really going places.

About code swapping. I think I'm obliged to publish the changes I've made to OpenGlide. I've been meaning to make the latest OpenGlide source available somewhere, but noone has yet actually requested it.

I wouldn't want to publish the source of the actual Glidos system though, not while I'm trying to sell copies.

BTW, I've just put some basic VESA support into Glidos, so I may think about turning it into something more general than a DOS/3dfx support.
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Postby Snover » 2002-8-31 @ 17:01

I'm thinking that it would be absolutely FAB if GliDOS became a graphics emulator (-ish) program! If this happens, it basically means that VDMSound + GliDOS = complete DOS emulation in Windows! It's really, terribly exciting. I'd feel kinda bad for putting the DosBox kids out of work, though. But not really, since there would be near-perfect DOS emulation!! ;)
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Postby Glidos » 2002-8-31 @ 21:39

Not sure how much is possible yet, but I'd like to push it in that direction. Everything I've done so far to do with VESA, is specific to DOS/4GW programs (as is the rest of Glidos for obvious reasons), but it could be generalised.

Don't know about DosBox. Is that the main purpose to clear up problems with graphics support? I've never quite understood the purpose of DosBox. That's not meant as a criticism or aything; its just something I don't know a lot about. I should really, working in the same area.

Do you know of any problematic VESA based programs I might look at?
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Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-8-31 @ 22:01

Glidos wrote:Not sure how much is possible yet, but I'd like to push it in that direction. Everything I've done so far to do with VESA, is specific to DOS/4GW programs (as is the rest of Glidos for obvious reasons), but it could be generalised.
Some classic DOS games really need this, especially the BUILD titles. Running DukeNukem3D/Blood/Shadow Warrior at 800x600 on NT/2000/XP is a real pain right now.

[B]I've never quite understood the purpose of DosBox. That's not meant as a criticism or anything; its just something I don't know a lot about. I should really, working in the same area.
Think of it as a specialized PC emulator like "Bochs", except that DosBox is designed specifically to run games that can't normally be run on modern PC's.

XP owners wouldn't have the smooth graphics of Glide, if it weren't for GliDOS, but it would still be possible to play in software mode. There are plenty of (much) older games that simply _won't_ run without emulation. Some can be forced to work with a lot of tinkering with timers, slowdown progs, etc...

Much easier to simply startup DosBox and point it to the drive with your old games.
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Postby Snover » 2002-8-31 @ 23:17

The DosBox site gives a lot of relevant information on what it does. (Take a look at the status page to see more specifics.)
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Postby Stiletto » 2002-9-03 @ 19:23

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote: Some classic DOS games really need this, especially the BUILD titles. Running DukeNukem3D/Blood/Shadow Warrior at 800x600 on NT/2000/XP is a real pain right now.


And unless I'm mistaken, they're DOS4/GW games, too.

Paul, I'm really curious as to what you're doing in implementing the VESA support. Could you perhaps write a brief article that details how you did it for TR1? I'm hoping to see a Status report as to what still needs to be done with it as well.

*edit* Note that the BUILD engine games currently have people trying to port/rewrite the engine, so there WILL be support for them in Windows eventually. But progress is slow, and the BUILD engine is documented, so trying to get their VESA support working in GLIDOS would be a good way to test the VESA feature.
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Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-9-03 @ 22:36

Stiletto wrote:And unless I'm mistaken, they're DOS4/GW games, too.
Yes they are. Your point? *eyes Stiletto suspiscuously*
[B] Note that the BUILD engine games currently have people trying to port/rewrite the engine, so there WILL be support for them in Windows eventually.

Wouldn't count on this. ReBuild is stagnated. Last update was a year and a half ago and the news link is a 404. ReBuild links to the "Blood Source Forum", but they have given up on the source and have committed to remakes of the original Blood.

Unless, of course, there's some other super-secret project out there...
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Postby Snover » 2002-9-04 @ 00:07

Stiletto is, for some reason, thinking about SPEEDSET, which doesn't work with protected-mode games.
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Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-9-06 @ 02:09

Stiletto wrote:Note that the BUILD engine games currently have people trying to port/rewrite the engine,...
Just found another site that started a port/rewrite:
http://www.icculus.org/BUILD/
Unfortunately it appears that the most recent activity was 14 months ago.
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Postby Stiletto » 2002-9-10 @ 20:06

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote: Yes they are. Your point? *eyes Stiletto suspiscuously*


No, I was not thinking about SPEEDSET. Paul said "(e)verything I've done so far to do with VESA is specific to DOS/4GW programs (as is the rest of Glidos for obvious reasons), but it could be generalised."

And BUILD engine games are DOS/4GW programs. Voila!

And I've known of Icculus.org's port of BUILD for a long time. I thought you knew about it.

Well, anyhow, it seems as if all the tools are out there to continue Icculus/REBUILD's work. Someone just has to do it. I vote for... Colin, with his new C++ programming ability. :D
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Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-9-11 @ 03:30

Stiletto wrote:And BUILD engine games are DOS/4GW programs.
Ah...
[B]And I've known of Icculus.org's port of BUILD for a long time. I thought you knew about it.
Actually, "ReBuild" was the one I remember. Maybe I did know and just forgot... *shrug* Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying about DOS4GW.
[B]Colin, with his new C++ programming ability. :D
Just remember, BLOOD uses Voxels to create "true" 3D objects. So they should probably be left out and replaced with 3D polygon models. Taps foot impatiently...
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Postby Glidos » 2002-9-11 @ 08:21

What's a voxel? Oops, sorry I'm supposed to be an expert.
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Postby CraigG » 2002-9-11 @ 09:13

Aren't some clever people out there doing a few OpenGL ports of various BUILD games ?

I can only ever get blood going in WinME, never WinXP, as the requirements state that a true DOS environment is required, and not a simulated one.
I remember the alpha 3dfx version of Blood was one of the first BUILD games I saw accelerated.
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Postby Stiletto » 2002-9-11 @ 17:50

http://labs.google.com/glossary?q=voxel

Only OpenGL version of a BUILD game I know of is/was glDuke: http://www.thisstrife.com/GLDUKE/oldnews.asp

Oh, and eDuke is an enhanced version of Duke3D built for Win32 using Icculus' source (AFAIK) but it is NOT using OpenGL.
http://www.saettler.com/eduke/

And of course ReBUILD, as mentioned earlier.
http://www.planetblood.com/bloodsource/rebuild.shtml

Only other things I know of are the official 3dfx patch for Shadow Warrior, and the alpha 3dfx patch for Blood. Good luck getting them to work with GLIDOS or eVoodoo.
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Postby CraigG » 2002-9-11 @ 18:45

Thanks for the links, Stiletto,

But after reading Joe's (3D Realms bloke)comments on the Duke source, I've lost interest.

I really think his total arrogance towards the TC coders out there, is pathetic.

Quote

"We will NOT be releasing it, What part of NO don't you understand ?"

For game that isn't making any money in sales, and is just soo old anyway, I can't see a problem with releasing source.
ID release all their source code, and look at what coders have done with Quake and Quake2. We have Tenenbrae for Quake 1 with amazing lighting effects, and QuakeMax for Q2 with Cell shading etc..
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Postby DosFreak » 2002-9-11 @ 19:21

Yep, that's why the Duke isn't as popular as Quake.

When Quake came out I played Duke3D more than Quake. I hated Quake. Sure the engine was an acomplishment but it was so drab and ran so poorly on my computer.

Duke was more colorful, interactive, on release was more fun in multiplayer than Quake.

Mabye Duke Forever :rolleyes: will revitalize Duke......if it every comes out. I'm not getting any younger and I'm still debating on wether I should buy a copy or just copy it from a friend considering how long 3DR is making me wait. :(
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Postby CraigG » 2002-9-11 @ 19:30

If you have the hardware I would recomend Tenebrea Quake1

http://users.pandora.be/hollemeersch/blackrose/

It looks amazing for Quake1
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Postby Snover » 2002-9-11 @ 20:28

ME? BAHAHAH! Not a chance! I couldn't code my way out of a cardboard box.
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Postby Nicht Sehr Gut » 2002-9-12 @ 00:42

CraigG wrote:Aren't some clever people out there doing a few OpenGL ports of various BUILD games ?
None that seem to be active right now. QBlood/Transfusion is a project to remake Blood using the Quake 1 & 2 engines, but only the MultiPlayer (using the Quake 1 engine) has had anything done (it's 99% done).
[B] I can only ever get blood going in WinME, never WinXP, as the requirements state that a true DOS environment is required, and not a simulated one.

BLOOD will run on XP, but you must run it in 320x200 mode with minimal audio settings. Would be better to run this with a patched ME (patched for DOS access).
[B] I remember the alpha 3dfx version of Blood was one of the first BUILD games I saw accelerated.
The Shadow Warrior 3dfx patch was rather "blurry". Was the BLOOD patch the same way? (I couldn't patch mine as it was v1.21)
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