Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Discussion about old PC hardware and Retro PCs

Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby aleksej » 2012-4-15 @ 16:48

While tried luck in another time in digging AVM Summit or General MIDI engine daughterboard (yes, i know, one lie right now on ebay.com but this one heavily overprised despite of their condidion) itself or some new info about, i found this for first.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~wz4k-tnk/di ... ummit.html
If I understand correctly Kurzweil also sells their own modification of that daughterboard as expansion for their PC88 keyboard which brings GM compatibility and called this bord Kurzweil Voice/GM Expansion Board or Kurzweil VGM in short.
I wonder if it contains same GM bank like AVM General MIDI Engine and don't require any kind of preparations (sysex command, etc) for running in GM mode, in other words - waveblaster compatible "right-out-of-the-box" for gaming purposes. Thats would be cool.

Some photos.

Funny stuff about that board.
http://forum.sonikmatter.com/forums/index.php/topic/42068-lol-kurzweil-loves-the-simpsons/
It reminds me Number Nine with dedications to Beatles in their products.

Any thoughts about?
User avatar
aleksej
Member
 
Posts: 244
Joined: 2006-4-30 @ 05:27
Location: moscow

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby gerwin » 2012-4-18 @ 17:54

Interesting pictures, finally a good image of the AVM summit DB. It looks a little clumsy with the transistor put there where the PCB is not designed to hold one.
User avatar
gerwin
l33t
 
Posts: 2000
Joined: 2004-5-07 @ 19:21
Location: NL

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby moturimi1 » 2016-6-06 @ 16:22

aleksej wrote:While tried luck in another time in digging AVM Summit or General MIDI engine daughterboard (yes, i know, one lie right now on ebay.com but this one heavily overprised despite of their condidion) itself or some new info about, i found this for first.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~wz4k-tnk/di ... ummit.html
If I understand correctly Kurzweil also sells their own modification of that daughterboard as expansion for their PC88 keyboard which brings GM compatibility and called this bord Kurzweil Voice/GM Expansion Board or Kurzweil VGM in short.
I wonder if it contains same GM bank like AVM General MIDI Engine and don't require any kind of preparations (sysex command, etc) for running in GM mode, in other words - waveblaster compatible "right-out-of-the-box" for gaming purposes. Thats would be cool.
Any thoughts about?


Sorry, I have to bring this old thread back to life.
I own a AVM Summit and a Kurzweil PC88MX Keyboard which includes the Kurzweil VGM Board.
I have to mention that in contrast to the Summit board the VGM board does not have the standardized Waveblaster connector.
It seems that pins are set differently. So without modification it does not seem possible to use the board on a standard wavetable adapter.
But the VGM plays GM right out of the box. And the VGM shares the GM bank with the AVM Summit.

One strange investigation: on the PC88 board near the location of the Daughterboard connector, you can read "EMU".
Could it be that the Soundengine has different pin settings too? I mean it is not Waveblaster adapter compatible.
If one is able to investigate the pin settings it might be possible to use the board on a waveblaster Adapter.
Last edited by moturimi1 on 2016-9-23 @ 01:13, edited 1 time in total.
moturimi1
Newbie
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 2014-6-01 @ 16:45

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby Cloudschatze » 2016-6-09 @ 15:21

moturimi1 wrote:One strange investigation. On the PC88 Board where the Daughterboard connector is located, there is written "EMU".
Could it be that the Soundengine has different pin settings too? I mean that it is not Waveblaster adapter compatible.
If one is able to investigate the pin settings it might be possible to use the board on a waveblaster Adapter.

See this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=32400&sid=3fc09c5097f082a7c6e58c56bafc2d62#p267472
User avatar
Cloudschatze
Oldbie
 
Posts: 828
Joined: 2005-6-16 @ 14:32

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby hard1k » 2016-6-14 @ 08:29

moturimi1 wrote:Sorry, I have to bring this old threat back to life.
I own a AVM Summit and a Kurzweil PC88MX Keyboard which includes the Kurzweil VGM Board.

Thanks for bringing up the topic!
As you have the PC88, could you please check the pins on its header (on the "mainboard" where you found the EMU inscription) with a voltmeter?
If our theory about the mirrored header is correct, you should find +5V on pins 6, 10, 14 (lower row, 3rd, 5th and 7th when counting from the LEFT), +12V on pin 18 (lower row, 5th when counting from the RIGHT) and -12V on pin 22 (lower row, 3rd when counting from the RIGHT), all pin numbers are given as if they would be numbered from right to left (that's why I clarified their positions in brackets), odd pins on the upper row, even pins on the lower row. If you still have any doubts what pins to check, a picture of the header would be very much appreciated - I'll highlight the necessary pins.
It would be really great to finally confirm that we have another great Waveblaster semi-compatible daughterboard out there! :)
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)
User avatar
hard1k
Member
 
Posts: 258
Joined: 2014-4-22 @ 11:28
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby moturimi1 » 2016-6-19 @ 13:38

Thanks Cloudschatze for the link. I checked everything.
And it is true the header seems to be mirrored.
I tried to attach a header on the other side of the mirrored header (where the soldering marks are) and you should be able to attach it to a normal wavetable board. I did that, but unfortunately there is no sound and it seems that the chips do not get warm. So there is an issue....
So I put the board back to the PC88 and it still works fine!

By the way the VGM has the same GM soundfont as the AVM summit but lacks the MT-32 soundbank and some instruments of the Orchestral soundbank (from the K2000).
Last edited by moturimi1 on 2016-6-25 @ 16:43, edited 2 times in total.
moturimi1
Newbie
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 2014-6-01 @ 16:45

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby moturimi1 » 2016-6-19 @ 14:37

I checked the voltage of the Motherboard. Only +5V and -5V! Here is the pin assignement:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmmqa9wjq3o3q ... r.jpg?dl=0
Pin 1 is the one on the bottom left side!
The PIN with 0.1V could be the RESET PIN, right?
Last edited by moturimi1 on 2016-6-25 @ 16:44, edited 1 time in total.
moturimi1
Newbie
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 2014-6-01 @ 16:45

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby hard1k » 2016-6-21 @ 07:44

moturimi1 wrote:I tried to attach a header on the other side of the mirrored header (where the soldering marks are) and you should be able to attach it to a normal wavetable board. I did that, but unfortunately there is no sound and it seems that the chips do not get warm. So there is an issue....

Are you sure that every contact was good? Was the host soundcard 100% functional? If yes, then it seems that this DB requires some odd power lines (more +5v and even a -5v) and won't work without them...
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)
User avatar
hard1k
Member
 
Posts: 258
Joined: 2014-4-22 @ 11:28
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby moturimi1 » 2016-6-21 @ 15:36

hard1k wrote:
moturimi1 wrote:I tried to attach a header on the other side of the mirrored header (where the soldering marks are) and you should be able to attach it to a normal wavetable board. I did that, but unfortunately there is no sound and it seems that the chips do not get warm. So there is an issue....

Are you sure that every contact was good? Was the host soundcard 100% functional? If yes, then it seems that this DB requires some odd power lines (more +5v and even a -5v) and won't work without them...


well there was an issue with one contact. I do not know, wheather I am going to try it again.
First of all I think I will check the connector ciruits of the EMU Soundengine board and the EMU Waveblaster I (mirrored) and of the AVM Sound engine as well as AVM Summit (mirrored).
The summit board is currently installed in an external DOXBOX and works perfectly. As far as I know it does not use 12 or -12V but only 5V/-5V.
moturimi1
Newbie
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 2014-6-01 @ 16:45

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby hard1k » 2016-6-21 @ 15:49

Great, please keep us informed!
In fact I do have all devices you mentioned except the PC88, but won't be able to check till next year.
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)
User avatar
hard1k
Member
 
Posts: 258
Joined: 2014-4-22 @ 11:28
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby moturimi1 » 2016-6-25 @ 16:53

-- post was deteted by moturimi1--
Last edited by moturimi1 on 2016-6-26 @ 17:14, edited 2 times in total.
moturimi1
Newbie
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 2014-6-01 @ 16:45

Re: Kurzweil VGM - Another infamous GM daughterboard?

Postby moturimi1 » 2016-6-26 @ 16:23

It works!!!

Finally after checking everything I attached the VGM Board to the AVM Summit Adapter Board in a mirrored manner.
The Summit Adapter generates -5 V out of the 5V it receives from the gameport. So instead of 12/-12V it it offers 5/-5V. That is perfect because the PC88 only supports 5/-5V and not 12/-12V.
And what can I say, I can hear sound (but no drum set), as long as no GM reset is send (that is a well known problem, can't remember the thread here on vogons).

Afterwards I installed the VGM on top of the SB16. In this case I can also hear the drums. Again without a GM reset, there is no sound at all.
It seems that it has to be set to GM mode and does not support it out of the box.
But even though being in GM mode (after quitting Doom) I do not get any sound in "Dark Forces", but it works for some Sierra Games I tested (e.g. "Eco 1").
Does Doom send a GM off message after exiting the game?

The AD1865R chip gets pretty hot, when the board is attached to a 12/-12V source. ....

Short summery:
These mirrored Wavetable boards work when you attach them in a mirrored fashion to a Wavetable Adapter Board.
(please solder in an adapter on the opposite site, where the you can see the soldered ins)
It might be necessary to send a GM reset.
moturimi1
Newbie
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 2014-6-01 @ 16:45


Return to Marvin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jheronimus and 12 guests