Most games with SB16 support that I've tampered with have audio files in 8-Bit formats... It's probably easier to do it that way than having the system scale them down to 8-Bit in realtime if you only had an 8-Bit card, especially given that there was a strong chance you'd be on a weaker system.

SB Pro compatibility of the SB 16 and later cards refers ONLY to digital sounds, NOT FM. And indeed, very few games are too old to support SB 16 but use Stereo digital sound.

As for what card is best, features you have already made a list. As far as which one sounds best, you just got to continue listening to all of them and making a choice. I made a Wing Commander II speech comparison a while ago: http://www.philscomputerlab.com/speech-comparisons.html

It shows you that every card sounds a little bit different. I recommend you listen to headphones.

II value peace of mind and therefore I go with Creative cards.

Also an FM comparison from a while ago: http://www.philscomputerlab.com/fm-comparisons.html

Doesn't Wolfenstein 3D use the SoundBlaster Pro mixer in such a way that it won't do stereo on the 16?

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Doesn't Wolfenstein 3D use the SoundBlaster Pro mixer in such a way that it won't do stereo on the 16?

An Internet myth that refuses to die.

Have you tried it yourself?

I have stereo in Wolf3d, using my CT-2910....
I think the reason for not working or working games, have something to do with the cards settings, being PNP or manual by jumper's.
Just an idea. Something I have never fully exploited.

If I recall it has only 8-bit mono samples and it will not mix them into stereo. It only plays 8-bit mono but if the card has a mixer the game will set PCM volume registers to pan sound between channels.

I have stereo om my SB16 CT2910. That's for shure.

Yep Wolf3d works fine on a SB16 here, CT2230, Vibra16S, etc.

The Yamaha chipset isn't 100% compatible - Duke II for example doesn't sounds right. The DOS software is retarded, some of them are PnP, you can't fit a full sized DB on to most of them - just not a great option IMHO.

Creative is the standard of the day, so they're hard to beat.

The Yamaha YMF-71x is a great chipset that unfortunately got little attention to get in good quality circuit and pcb designs with maybe one or two exceptions.

Its SB, SBPro compatibility is no 100% but should be well above 95%, there are probably a couple of games here and there that won't sound 100% correct, like Duke 2 as previously mentioned. Not a huge trouble in my opinion, but it depends on the games you wanna play. For me its a zero issue. BTW, unlike a real SBPro the YMF-71x cards can do 48Khz mixing, i was quite impressed with this card playing MOD files. Games that allow you to choose SBPro and change mixing speed might benefit from this. It makes big difference.

The DOS software is quite weak i agree, but flexible enough that one could use this card as a dedicated SoftMPU by disabling whatever you don't need. I actually replaced this card for a AWE64 Gold, for the only reason to have EMU8000 capability. I stick it in IRQ9 and P330, so i have good roland compatibility via SoftMPU as well.

All in all, my favorite Creative card is the Sound Blaster Pro 2, a good Sound Blaster 16 would be a CT2290 or a CT2230, note that not all CT2900's have a real OPL3 although they're quite quiet cards, and if you don't care about FM synthesis go for an AWE64 Gold. The analog output of Creative cards fails to impress me however. Even the flagship AWE64 Gold does not have higher SNR than other alternatives that might do the same minus EMU8000 but with other synthesizer chips.

EDIT: One thing i forgot to mention is that i'd rather have a GUS for later games than a Sound Blaster 16. Usually SB16 games also support the GUS. In my ATX retro rigs, i like to have at least 3 ISA slots minimum so i can have the flexibility of various sound cards.

Or for a dedicated SoftMPU card, you can really save an ISA slot using a PCI YMF-72x based card. As far as i could test their SoftMPU support is great.

With all cards I noticed that the CD audio cable picks up a lot of "computer thinking noise". I now route a cable to my mixer which allows me to mute it when needed. The on-board mixer is configured with all inputs muted. Just what is needed for the card itself.

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Doesn't Wolfenstein 3D use the SoundBlaster Pro mixer in such a way that it won't do stereo on the 16?

Isn't it the other way around?... Being the exception because it uses panning to do stereo.

IMO: Vibra Pro Chip CT2502 (CT2940 Card) is a bit more desirable then a Vibra16S Chip (CT2800/CT2900 Card).

I also read the YMF71x chips cannot do some kind of bit manipulation the same way a SB Pro can. Sorry, cannot find it and I do not remember how to describe it better.

gerwin: I have been looking for a CT2940 that has the OPL3 installed but I have not been able to find one for the last few weeks. I have a CT2890 and a CT2900 both with the Vibra16S chip and a SB32 without a real OPL3 that I will definitely be selling. I am thinking about grabbing a CT1920 AWE32 addon card with 32MB RAM though, might play with loading a sound bank in DOS? Supposedly the CT2980's are desirable but when looking at one I do not see an OPL3 on them anywhere. http://www.yjfy.com/images/oldhard/sound/CT2980.jpg

Seems like all roads lead me back to an original Sound Blaster Pro 2. Hell, then I could add a CT1920 AWE32 card on top of that for wavetable if I wanted.

It doesn't seem that there are any meaningful advantages of a SB16 over a SB Pro 2 in DOS, that sound about right? If I do decide on a SB16 I am still looking for a CT2940 that actually has the OPL3 installed.

squareguy wrote:

gerwin: I have been looking for a CT2940 that has the OPL3 installed but I have not been able to find one for the last few weeks.

Vibra16S should suffice then. Or maybe consider CT2230/CT2290 or similar.
The Vibra16S sounds clear in general, but has a very faint ringing noise which remains after playing a sample.
There are three Vibra chips without integrated OPL3: The Vibra Original, the -Pro and the -S. Then they either have Yamaha OPL3, or CQM. The rest of the card layout should not matter much. Except for the CT2860, that card is crippled with a TV amplifier.

squareguy wrote:

I am thinking about grabbing a CT1920 AWE32 addon card with 32MB RAM though, might play with loading a sound bank in DOS?

CT1920 is a nice card for sure. In DOS a loaded soundfont will always require a running a Program or TSR to support it; Meaning that when you exit the Program/Game/TSR which loaded the soundfont, the loaded soundfont data remains orphaned and useless.

squareguy wrote:

Seems like all roads lead me back to an original Sound Blaster Pro 2. Hell, then I could add a CT1920 AWE32 card on top of that for wavetable if I wanted.

I tried this recently and couldn't get the CT1920 to work with the Pro 2. Worked in the same system with a SB 16 or Vibra 16 along side it, but as soon as I whipped the SB 16 out the CT1920 stopped being detected. I think it had something to do with Diagnose.exe no longer being run (no need with the Pro 2 obviously), but I ran out of patience and gave up.

Interesting about the CT1920 with the Pro 2.

If anyone happens to see a CT2940 with the OPL3 onboard please let me know.

I once tried to get to Vibra-S cards going. These are semi-PnP and I also gave up 😀

philscomputerlab wrote:

I once tried to get to Vibra-S cards going. These are semi-PnP and I also gave up 😀

IIRC you had one or two of these cards, and found them to be rather noisy, of course:

gerwin wrote:

Except for the CT2860, that card is crippled with a TV amplifier.

For a CT1920 card you need a special variant of the CTCM.exe. It works well for me.

Hmmm.

It seems all CT2900s have the new shape OPL3 and DAC.

All CT2940s I have see lack the OPL3 and DAC but have the spot for the new shape chips.

I think a solder job is in order here.