VOGONS


First post, by Tek

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Link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfSukXqGZ1c

In an effort to keep the build video short, I've not gone into too many specifics so I've written this to go alongside. For starters, very little of this would have been possible were it not for the VOGONS members. A lot of my enquiries were nipped by searching and lurking and my more specific questions were answered brilliantly.
Most of the parts were sourced from eBay due to the age and availability but some of the best scores came from private sales from a few guys here and personal friends.

This PC build is centred around a 450mhz PII MMX Slot 1 CPU and half a gig of RAM, which is insane for 1998. Games from 2000 were only asking for 128mb so it's a huge amount. In fact Windows 98 can only recognise 1gb in total which is a limit I mean to meet in the near future.

The Soyo motherboard was shortlisted along with three others, one being a Chainfire board that I just could not track down. The choice was made due to PII support, a wide range of RAM compatibility and the large number of PCI slots, as well as an AGP slot for the GPU. Also, I had to have a beige case but wanted a new one, hence the excellent if overspecced CH case.

The graphics are provided by an old '98 Riva card that I pulled out of an old build but that's propped up by two 12mb Voodoo 2s running in SLI. These things are absolute BEAST MODE. I'll make a benchmark video soon but suffice to say I'm running Half Life in full HD at 60fps+ and it's the same for Q3A. These are truly the heart of it and one factor I was never going to concede or negotiate with.

Media drives are pennies, I just grabbed what I had lying around. I'm considering adding a Zip drive but I'm not sure I have any IRQ left - that's something I forgot to mention - IRQs! God that would have been a nightmare has I not been prepared. The HDD is a 60gb(?) Seagate Barracuda and it has tons of space - the OS is a few hundred mb so there's space left for probably a thousand games.

The SoundBlaster Live! sound card rules. One thing that I noticed after installing and playing for a while is that the SB16 emulation under windows is great - if your DOS game will run in the DOS virtual environment then everything will work perfectly, unfortunately if your games have to run in pure DOS then the card doesn't perform as well (LucasArts adventure games I'm looking at you!) so I had to install a second sound card for DOS - I went for an old SB AWE64 Gold which is the best ISA sound card of its type (IMO). That was a specific request that was answered here and I was even pointed towards the best card I could get so again, thank you VOGONS! Luckily my Soyo mobo had an ISA slot so that was a fairly painless - if ultimately heartbreaking - process. I really wanted to get the PCI card working in 100% of cases but in actuality it was easier to rock two cards.

I chose Windows 98 Second Edition for my OS. SE was chosen for the full-featured compatibility with the hardware but crucially because it was the last true DOS-based OS, meaning reverse compatibility for DOS games would be as good as I could get on a Windows machine. The theory paid off, everything worked exactly as expected! Hardware compatibility was a runaway success, no driver issues and no conflicts (which is actually BETTER than my memories of the 90s) and software compatibility has been almost perfect too, although I still can't get Evolva running (remember that game?)

All in all it was a blast building this PC. I've wanted a retro rig for a while as a lot of my old PC games don't work on new iterations of Windows so it was worth building a rig to play them on. Many thanks to you guys here for pointers and for being an ace community I'm proud to be a member of.

We'll karaoke all night long, macarena 'til the break of dawn.

Reply 3 of 15, by chinny22

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Nice honest build.
I know what you mean with using a PCI card for dos sound. At first you think why not it should be able to do anything an isa card can do, but in the end I think just about everyone caves in and gets an isa card

Reply 4 of 15, by PhilsComputerLab

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chinny22 wrote:

Nice honest build.
I know what you mean with using a PCI card for dos sound. At first you think why not it should be able to do anything an isa card can do, but in the end I think just about everyone caves in and gets an isa card

So true 😀

On the other hand I wouldn't hold it against PCI cards that some very old games don't run properly. Many will have timing issues anyway because of such a fast processor. Later DOS games with newer drivers pretty much all work with PCI cards. I looked into compatibility ages ago and I believe Fate of Atlantis CD and Space Quest 1 VGA were two games that didn't like PCI cards.

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Reply 5 of 15, by chinny22

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Watched the video today, didnt realise you buit it for £60, very nicely done. Video was cool as well, informative with laid back humour.

Reply 6 of 15, by Nahkri

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I also watched the video,it's a nice build,but there are issues with it.
First of all,your processor seems to be a Pentium 3 not a pentium 2,that's not a big issue couse there isn't a big difference between the pentium 2 and first models of pentium 3,the main problem is,in your case,it's running at 66 mhz fsb from what i see in the video.It should run at 100mhz fsb.
Are u sure it's frequency is 450mhz ? couse from the video it's running at 466mhz=66mhz x7 which makes me believe it's a pentium 3-700mhz.

Second issue:you have the same soyo mainboard as i,this model has a highpoint udma 66 controller,alowing you to use your harddrive in udma 66 mode,since u have a newer hard drive which probably supports this mode,u should activate the controller in bios and connect the hard drive only,to the udma 66 ports on the motherboard,from the video,i see u connected it to the udma 33 ports.

Reply 7 of 15, by Tetrium

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Still I think he did a great job especially considering he hasn't build a new rig in such a long time, cheers Tek! 😁

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 8 of 15, by Tek

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Hi guys. This may look like threadromancy but I'm on-topic.

After I made the video, the PC has entered a period of disuse, and it developed a short in the power switch. I am now just getting around to getting the PC fixed back up. I'm making another video, explaining some of the things I learned in building this PC. I have a few tips on buying and sourcing parts which I've not seen anywhere else so that would be worth doing.

Just going over some comments made in the thread - @Nahkri - I bought two "Pentium II"s, but it does indeed turn out one of them was a P3, I feel a little cheaty about that. Can I set the FSB in BIOS then? If I've got a 700mhz P3 I might as well get it running at the right frequency. With regards to the UDMA66 - I am entirely unfamiliar with this term. A quick Google search and I'm no closer to understanding. Could you walk me through that one please?

@Tetrium - thanks dude! It's been 15 years since I build a PC like this, I was bound to mess it up somehow, but I think I bodged my way through it.
@chinny22 & Philscomputerlab - Now I've got the AWE64 in there, my worries are gone. Cost me pocket change, and now DOS games run fine 😀 I didn't want to do it, I wanted to graft and get it running. Alas, I caved 😀

Thanks guys. Also - the video is over 10k hits now! Wow!

We'll karaoke all night long, macarena 'til the break of dawn.

Reply 9 of 15, by jmannik

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Tek wrote:

With regards to the UDMA66 - I am entirely unfamiliar with this term. A quick Google search and I'm no closer to understanding. Could you walk me through that one please?

I can answer this one for you, what UDMA66 is was just a newer and faster IDE connection speed, from memory you need to use a 80wire ide cable to use it, it should enable automatically from memory also once you use the correct cable. Also some motherboards have one UDMA66 socket one UDMA33 socket, you may have to check your motherboard manual to confirm which is which.

Dos: AMD 386 DX40 | 8MB RAM | SB Vibra 16
Dos: AMD 586-133|32MB RAM|2GB CF|2MB S3 Virge|AWE32-8MB
WinME: Athlon-500MHz|512MB|2x80GB|SB Live|Voodoo 3 3000 16MB
Win10: i7-6700K|16GB|1x250GB SSD 1x1.5TB|AMD Fury X

Reply 10 of 15, by Nahkri

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http://www.elhvb.com/mobokive/Archive/Soyo/ma … 86/m6bap410.pdf

Here is a complete manual of the motherboard,has all the info u need.

Concerning the processor,from the video is clear u have a pentium 3 not a pentium 2,it shows pentium 3 on the post screen.
What u need to find is what speed is it,on the top of the processor as u look down into the case there are some numbers and letters,look them up on google and u should find out what speed your processor is.

There are only 2 pentium 3 models that have a multiplier of 7(multiplier is fixed so u can't change it) one of them has the speed of 700mhz using a fsb of 100mhz 700mhz=7x100mhz

The other has a speed of 933mhz using a fsb of 133 mhz 933=7x133mhz.

So u need to see what speed your cpu has in order to set it corectly in bios.

As for udma 66,all u need is connect the ide cable from the hard drive to the udma 66 conectors on the motherboard,the manual shows u which ones are,atm your hard is connected to the udma 33 ports so transfer rates are lower.
U don't need to change the optical drive cable to udma 66,since optical drives only use udma 33 transfer rates.
Also u need to change boot order in bios to scsi,c,a.
All this info u can find in the manual.

Reply 11 of 15, by Tek

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Holy smokes! I turned my PC on after having it sit dormant for a while, and the damned thing is going haywire! First I couldn't get the thing to turn on at all. After some jiggery-pokery I can get it to turn on, but it shuts down right before the system speaker beeps.

I've disconnected everything, including the HDD, FDD and CD drive and I can get it turned on, then it starts this loop of rapidly resetting. its like tickticktickticktick as it resets over and over. Damn!

I thought it might be a short in the power switch. But even disconnecting the wire doesn't prevent it. Think I'll try another PSU in there. Any ideas guys?

We'll karaoke all night long, macarena 'til the break of dawn.

Reply 12 of 15, by Nahkri

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Remove both voodoo cards,also remove soundcard and disconect all the drives.
Leave only the cpu,main videocard and 1 memory stick(if u have more then 1).
Make sure everything is properly fixed in their slots,cpu,videocard memory.
See if the pc works ok,if it does connect the hard drive see if the os loads.