God Of Gaming wrote:
AAA, Indie, mid-ground, doesn't matter, graphics quality doesnt matter (much), what matters to me is that the gameplay or story or both are good enough to warant for more than 1 playtrough. So I'm generally open to most games that are not so bad that most other people avoid them too.
Oh I wasn't meaning to make any sort of value judgment on quality or anything - more that the bigger-budget/more popular games seem to be better supported/work right out of the box. For example WarCraft III has "just worked" in Windows 7x64 for me, while ORB (which is a Strategy First game from around the same time) is more of a pain in the neck, and a lot easier to run on XP (I don't know if the Steam version of ORB is improved in any way). WarCraft III and ORB is just one specific example ofc - but this kind of trend is something I've noticed with a number of games. Usually more popular games are also more documented by community members, because more people have tried them and reported on their experiences, so finding workarounds is usually easier.
I don't know why most people say those are HRTF, it feels more like virtual surround.
Where, specifically, did I say "those are HRTF" or even bring "HRTF vs virtual surround" into the discussion? Where did I even bring headphones into the discussion?
What I actually said: "surround processing simulacrum over time - for example Audigy 2 ZS with CMSS vs SoundCore with THX. "
That does not imply a headphone-only or headphone-specific feature or bent; although, if you want to talk headphones, we can talk headphones. 😀
I think those techs take positional data only from 5.1 or 7.1 channels and virtualise it for headphones, not like true HRTF where you can judge the direction and distance accurately even vertically.
Not entirely. The surround simulacrum features on Audigy 2 ZS, PCI X-Fi, Recon3D, and Sound Blaster Z can all work on stereo sources or multi-channel sources, and output to stereo or multi-channel speakers. The SoundCore products' "headphone mode" will tell a little fib to Windows and other software applications that it's wanting a 5.1 signal, and then it performs a real-time downmix for headphones. You can configure the X-Fi and Audigy 2 ZS (and all other Audigy models, as far as I know) to do the same thing with clever manipulation of Windows and Creative sound settings. There are many long and bloody debates as to whether or not this produces better imaging or soundstaging on headphones (and in which games, applications, etc - some of this stuff really has been dragged on to the end of the universe).
This feature absolutely is "virtual surround" whether or not it is working on surround speakers, or headphones. The headphone modes do employ HRTFs (and other responses and filters) but it's all on-the-fly processing working on dynamic content, as opposed to a static binaural mix (e.g. Chesky Records releases). The quality of the source material, processing algorithm, headphones, etc all factor into how convincing the effect is. Especially if the source material is not originally surround sound content (so it has to be converted before processing). The various simulacrum implementations between the different Sound Blaster cards (and non-Creative cards, like Razer ESP on the AC-1) all perform a little differently, and have different configuration options. There is a YouTube video that compares a few of the more recent simulacrum features, here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04yEtZJVpyY
CMSS and THX TruSurround (as well as SBX Surround on the Sound Blaster Z cards) have modes for stereo and surround speakers as well. Dolby and DTS also offer comparable suites (e.g. DTS Interactive) depending on your audio interface.
All of these features are distinct from taking the 2.0 downmix from a standard Dolby decoder into headphones - they all employ various modeled responses and equalization to attempt to make the sound more pleasing or convincing on headphones. However because they aren't working from an exact calibrated model with the same equipment (or source material), and they all have slight internal differences, how well they work for you will be variable.
I don't have an actual dedicated sound card yet, I'm wondering whether I should go for Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty or Auzen X-Fi Forte or Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater HD, right now I'm using modded drivers for my onboard Realtek ALC892 that let me use CMSS-3D and ALchemy, and from what I can see, I prefer using actual 5.1 speakers to CMSS-3D, but true HRTF like the one that you can enable in OpenAL Soft is actually very impressive.
I would avoid Auzen cards - the company is long out of business, and driver updates are not generally available as Creative does not support non-Creative hardware. My X-Fi is an Auzen-built card, and there are a variety of features that X-Fi boards have (especially under Windows Vista/7) from newer driver builds that the Auzen does not offer. Having said that, I'm also not too fascinated with the X-Fi. I know, the currently popular/hip thinking is that X-Fi is the holy grail of all things PC audio, and SoundCore is the son of the devil, but honestly I much prefer the two SoundCore boards I've got versus the multiple X-Fi boards I've had. Specifically, the drivers are significantly better (and no wretched "mode switching"), DDL is included out of the box (as opposed to a paid download), and the built-in headphone amplifiers are very good (even the Maxim on the original Recon3D). No support for WinXP though, but that's not too much of a problem in a modern system imho. For older machines I'd much rather have an Audigy or Live! (or a non-Creative card).
philscomputerlab wrote:You're right, the newer games I played all take 5.1 information and create virtual surround over headphones. This happened when Vista came out, but also hand in hand with many console ports who all used DD or DTS.
Older games support it too - it isn't really a game-side feature (it doesn't have to be, at least). It's a downmix feature in the decoder. A lot of AV receivers will also perform this downmix. The Dolby decoder specs actually require supporting stereo downmix (DTS does not, AFAIK, but most modern decoders implement it because it's what the people want), and specify a matrix for that downmix. Dolby Headphone takes things further, employing HRTFs and FIRs (albeit generalized ones) among other things to enhance the effect, and also adds the ability to "stack" Pro Logic II for handling of stereo sources (and how the material behaves with Pro Logic II depends on how it's mastered/encoded; Dolby Surround content will perform the best - if you have a game that can only output mono or stereo audio it will likely not behave as well as a game that supports surround sound of some form or another). CMSS and THX TruStudio are similar to the Dolby suite - they provide a surround simulacrum for stereo->surround, as well as a headphone mode that processes either surround->headphones or stereo->headphones. DTS has more recently gotten on-board with this with DTS Connect, and offers largely the same kind of features through their own proprietary decoders.
You can also get a similar experience if your computer can output 5.1 via Dolby or DTS to an AV receiver, as many will support a 5.1->stereo or 5.1->headphone downmix feature. Some manufacturers have taken things a step further, and developed their own processing enhancements. Yamaha is probably the best example, with CinemaDSP for speaker output, and Silent Cinema for headphones.
If you're really sold on a virtual surround system for headphones, something like the Smyth Realiser is worth a look - it allows for more fine-tuned configuration/calibration for a specific user's HRTF, headphones, tastes, etc. Razer's Surround application also provides some calibration options, and may be worth a look.
Now my memory could be playing tricks on me, but when I used to play Battlefield 2142 with CMSS-3D, I could have sworn that you could distinguish sounds coming from above or below you. In Battlefield 4, if you're in a building with a few floors, you can hear someone run around, and the direction, but impossible to tell that person is above or below you.
2142 supports most (if not all) of the X-Fi's features, including the CMSS Elevation Filter, which is what enables that to work. Very few games do that though. 😊