VOGONS


First post, by jp7152

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The background...

As a child I remember being taken to my local computer shop where on the shelf they had a big collection of processors on display, some of which were the Pentium Pro models. The prices ranged up to several thousand pounds per CPU. I was amazed some of them could be so expensive and wondered what they offered for the money compared to the standard pentiums at only a few hundred pounds.

Recently I saw a Pentium Pro motherboard for sale and as it's getting quite difficult to find the bits to build one of these nowadays I decided that now (only 18 years late!) would be a good time to start.

The build:

Motherboard:

Tyan S1662 D - Dual Socket 8 'BabyAT'

If you're going to have a Pentium Pro I thought makes sense to double up! This board is a standard BabyAT board and I think it retailed for £485 in ~1997.

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Here are the CPU sockets. It's very dusty but as I've run out of air duster at the moment it's going to have to stay like that until I can get some more.

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This board takes 72pin SIMM memory. There are 8 slots in total and the board can take up to 1GB of ram.

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PCI and ISA Slots

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Here is the keyboard connector and AT power connector. You can also see the header for the ps/2 port for the mouse.

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VRM slot.

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Here are the VRMs. They are both Corsair but slightly different model numbers. I think one might be rated for a higher power but I can't find any details.

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Here is the memory I am using. 4x 64MB Edo SIMMS for a total of 256MB. It would have cost £245 for each 64MB SIMM back in 1997!

They are 60ns modules.

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I fitted a replacement battery/RTC.

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Here is where it fits on the board.

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Now the interesting bit, the processors!

I understand Intel initally released models ranging from 150mhz-200mhz with 256KB cache. All the intial models were designed for high end workstations except one. This was an ultra high end chip running at 166mhz with double the cache of the workstation models.

On release the retail price of the 200mhz workstation model was around £1200 whereas the 166mhz 512k cache server version would set you back over £1500 per CPU here in the UK.

With this in mind the 166mhz models were the ones I wanted to start with. Here is a picture.

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I also got a 'brand new' sealed 180mhz chip in the original box. It has a case sticker inside I really want to get out but since it's still sealed I think I'm going to leave it as it is, as a very geeky souvenir.

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I managed to get some new old stock heatsinks to keep them cool.

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I got hold of a AT case and set about installing the board. This was much more difficult than I expected as the board is almost exactly the size of the space in the case. I had to remove the heatsinks and VRMs to be able to squeeze it in at an angle.

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Then the moment of truth... Whenever I build a new PC I always wonder if it will fire up first time, but this one using nearly 20 year old components... I had no idea if it would work or if it would blow up. 😀

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It works!!

A quick install of Windows NT4 to test everything was working...

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and then it was time to err...... upgrade ! I wanted to install the 1MB cache versions.

Tyan had a bios update program you could download from their website. Unfortunately it didn't work however I managed to get hold of a suitable version of the award flash program which I ran from a floppy disk.

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It didn't give any indication as to if the flash was successful or not but I left the computer on for quite a while to be safe then power cycled... Luckily the bios updated successfully.

This allowed support for the 1MB 200mhz chips and also added Ultra DMA hard disk support. I am a little confused about this as I didn't think this chipset supports UltraDMA?

I also needed better cooling as the heatsinks I got were fairly small. Socket 8 Heatsinks are difficult to find as they are only used on PPro CPUs. I managed to get some comparatively huge compaq heatsinks designed for semi passive use then added the high power fans from the other heatsinks.

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These heatsinks are taller than the standard heatsink and fan put together.

So the processors themselves...

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For a size comparison of just how big these chips are, here's a picutre of a 2005 mobile Athlon on the PPro 1MB.

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Ready for their new home haha

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Fitted!

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All working! Boot screen showing 2x 1024KB cache.

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I'd read online that the Pentium Pro runs very hot and while using the 166mhz 512k versions I was thinking that it was a little bit of an exaggeration. They were hot but not worse than I expected.

The 1MB versions though... From totally cold even with the fan at full speed it takes literally seconds before you can no longer comfortably touch the heatsinks. Because I'm using a standard desktop case there are no fans for air moment and even with the case side off (definately can't put it on!) it's like a mini oven.

I did have a go at undervolting the processors (which takes 10 jumpers!). There is no display in the bios to tell you the voltage so I used a watt meter on the plug socket instead. Unfortunately the VRMs seem to set a min voltage. You can go over it but not under it.

So that's roughly where I'm up to so far. I used the internet achieve to look up prices and total cost so far in 1997 would be approximately £7048 which allowing for inflation would be around £11,820 !!!

It's not too bad though compared to pre built computers at that time. When IBM and ICL launched their first Pentium Pro servers they started at £15,000 for a single 166mhz 512k processor system and were over £30,000 for a dual 166mhz 512k system.

Apologies if any facts are wrong. Please feel free to correct me 😀 Also I have loads of questions, hopefully it'll be OK if I post them and you guys might be able to help me with the answers?

Reply 2 of 25, by petro89

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Great build and great story. Thanks for sharing!

*Ryzen 9 3900xt, 5700xt, Win10
*Ryzen 7 2700x, Gtx1080, Win10
*FX 9590, Vega64, Win10
*Phenom IIx6 1100T, R9 380, Win7
*QX9770, r9 270x, Win7
*FX60, hd5850, Win7
*XP2400+, ti4600, Win2k
*PPro 200 1mb, banshee, w98
*AMD 5x86, CL , DOS

Reply 4 of 25, by jp7152

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Thanks for the replies.

My first question...

I have a Voodoo and a Voodoo II. I think I shall use the Voodoo II but am not sure which 2d card to pair it with.

I have an S3 Virge, Matrox Millennium, Matrox Millennium 2 and a Matrox Mystique 220.

Am I right in thinking the Matrox Millennium 2 is the best card? Is there anything I would need the Mystique's 3d rending for that the Voodoo wouldn't support?

Thanks again

Reply 5 of 25, by swaaye

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Millennium II should be best but it probably won't be noticeable compard to the others unless you run 1600x1200 or similar. Millennium II and Mystique 220 are very similar in 3D, perhaps identical. In fact I saw the same flaws in their rendering. The Voodoo2 will be much more visually pleasing, fast, and compatible.

Reply 6 of 25, by calvin

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NT 4 means you're stuck with DirectX 3, so you probably want Glide or OpenGL then, unless you move to 2000, or 9x, which will leave your second CPU pointless.

2xP2 450, 512 MB SDR, GeForce DDR, Asus P2B-D, Windows 2000
P3 866, 512 MB RDRAM, Radeon X1650, Dell Dimension XPS B866, Windows 7
M2 @ 250 MHz, 64 MB SDE, SiS5598, Compaq Presario 2286, Windows 98

Reply 7 of 25, by Bullmecha

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calvin wrote:

NT 4 means you're stuck with DirectX 3, so you probably want Glide or OpenGL then, unless you move to 2000, or 9x, which will leave your second CPU pointless.

2k doesn't utilize a 2nd?? I thought it was just a few changes in the system settings to get it to run dual.

to JP ... nice build started, let's see the finished package =)

which reminds me, I really need to finish mine.

Just a guy with a bad tinkering habit.
i5 6600k Main Rig
too many to list old school rigs

Reply 8 of 25, by calvin

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Errr, 2000 will happily run dual-CPU. Bad phrasing on my part. If you want games and SMP, 2000 is the only way to eat your cake and have it too. Except running XP, but XP is terrible, especially on PPro.

2xP2 450, 512 MB SDR, GeForce DDR, Asus P2B-D, Windows 2000
P3 866, 512 MB RDRAM, Radeon X1650, Dell Dimension XPS B866, Windows 7
M2 @ 250 MHz, 64 MB SDE, SiS5598, Compaq Presario 2286, Windows 98

Reply 9 of 25, by Darkman

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the Pentium Pro is great, Ive found it to be pretty balanced, as its 16bit performance is fast , but not fast enough to be detrimental to those Sierra/Lucasarts CPU sensitive games (the ones that have big issues playing on anything faster than a Pentium) but its 32bit performance is fast and really nice for those early 3D games.

great build, and yes a Millennium II would be an excellent choice, very fast, sharp image quality. The only flaw is the compatibility issues with several DOS games (most notably Commander Keen 4-6 and Jazz Jackrabbit , both of which have very jerky scrolling with the Matrox cards)

if the system was intended to play games like Sin or System Shock2 , I would recommend a Pentium III , but for a circa 1996 system, the PPro is great.

Reply 10 of 25, by Skyscraper

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I really like Pentium Pro systems 😀

If you do not have another DOS / Win9x system then removing a CPU is always an option. I can see from the pictures that this motherboard has been used with a single CPU for most of its lifetime 😁

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 12 of 25, by chinny22

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Very nice!! (well any SMP PC is sexy)
I skipped the P Pro era so didn't know about the different CPU's aimed at Workstation/Server that was interesting.
Finished my Duel P3 recently and had the same problem of not been able to close the lid hot running. ATX cases are easy to come by so was easily fixed but feel your pain. Maybe you can convert a newer case?

Compaq definitely were the leaders in server gear. Most of my stuff is ex Compaq (plus I have an entire server) partly due to being the most easy to find but things like heat sinks are also better then Intel's own OEM stuff IMHO.

Do you have the PS2 adaptor? that makes things much easier.

OS wise I recently found Win2k plays all but 2 of my Win9x games without any problems (Need for Speed 3? and Return fire) which I was surprised at P3 600 has obviously got a bit more grunt then P Pro 200 but if you can get away with it I recommend 2K over NT4
I do drop it back to DOS (well 98) for dos games, sure the 2nd CPU isn't doing anything but its not hurting either

Reply 13 of 25, by jp7152

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I would be tempted to convert to a new case but the one I've put it in is just so nice. It suits it perfectly. 😀

It does have 2 spaces for case fans but they have to be very thin so I need to find some suitable fans. The other thing I need to do before closing the lid would be find some day to attach fans over the VRMS.

I do have a PS2 adapter but I've not been using it.

2k runs great and apart from taking a while to boot seems very fast.

Reply 15 of 25, by Bullmecha

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So lets see that case and the goodies crammed inside... PICS PICS

Just a guy with a bad tinkering habit.
i5 6600k Main Rig
too many to list old school rigs

Reply 16 of 25, by underjack

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I have a quad (yes, that's four) PPro 200 system. It's a HP Netserver LX Pro, and it's the size of a mini-fridge. Three power supplies and 12 hot swap SCSI bays. I have a few hard drives for it, but haven't turned it on in about 7 years. It's an EISA and needs a special power cord, plus it just made so much noise....and 1100W rating on the PSUs.

Had slackware running on it. Once compiled apache, mysql, samba, and something else, at the same time. Because I could.

Saddens me that right now I'm using it as a table.

Reply 17 of 25, by Bullmecha

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gGsXiW1m.jpg
Dual 200's, 512mb RAM, Voodoo3 PCI (for now), PCI to USB adapter card, EMC Ethernet card
Not the best looking dual board case area but it's working. Still need to find NT4 to try it out though. Looking to tryout the Black Ice coolers also, if I can find the guy selling them still.

Just a guy with a bad tinkering habit.
i5 6600k Main Rig
too many to list old school rigs

Reply 19 of 25, by chinny22

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From the inside it doesn't look bad, Nice deep case as well so bit of air in there to help things.

Underjack, That sounds like a hell of a system! While I agree its sad that the best doesn't get used at lest be glad its nice and safe. So much of the corporate equipment by passes the 2nd hand market and straight to the recyclers as business just want quick easy way to get rid of it