chrisNova777 wrote:

is it possible to fit an AT style motherboard in an ATX case? do i really need to find a proper AT style Case to be able to bui […]
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is it possible to fit an AT style motherboard in an ATX case?
do i really need to find a proper AT style Case to be able to build a system by ordering motherboard + cpu etc to
put together a 486 (pre-pentium) system?

if not i guess it would be much easier to find a socket 5 or socket 7 system that has PS/2 ports + fits an ATX form factor?

It is possible, several early ATX cases has AT mounts, but there will be a big hole at the I/O ports, unless you can find an AT backplate for ATX (almost non-existant!).

The easiest way is to get a SS7 board in ATX, or an early Socket 7 430HX board, like the ASUS P/I-XP55T2P4 (ASUS's first ATX board).

If you really want an 386/486 system, then I suggest getting an OEM system. They're cheap, complete and come with all you need.

yea the mobo u just suggested is from 1996.. for pentium chips from 75Mhz through to 200Mhz

I was trying to get something from way before MMX pentium technology.. to run Cubase Score 1.03D (1993) with parallel port MIDI interface by Midiman called the Portman 4x4/s

It is possible, several early ATX cases has AT mounts, but there will be a big hole at the I/O ports, unless you can find an AT backplate for ATX (almost non-existant!).

ok i get what your saying.. so i might be able to attach + mount the motherboard but i would have to run it without the backplate..

chrisNova777 wrote:

ok i get what your saying.. so i might be able to attach + mount the motherboard but i would have to run it without the backplate..

Yes, it'll look like this:

The AT backplate for ATX is seen in this picture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/common … %28smial%29.jpg

See this thread for more:
Started using ATX cases for AT boards

chrisNova777 wrote:

yea the mobo u just suggested is from 1996.. for pentium chips from 75Mhz through to 200Mhz

I was trying to get something from way before MMX pentium technology.. to run Cubase Score 1.03D (1993) with parallel port MIDI interface by Midiman called the Portman 4x4/s

Yes, it's a Pentium board. Afaik no 486 ATX boards exist. Are you sure Cubase Score 1.03D requires a 486 to run? A Pentium 75 is pretty slow (equal to the faster 486 cpu's), and you can make an ATX board slower by disabling the caches.

Maybe this can interesting for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcAqRbFFQPU
(Buildng a 4 in 1 Retro Gaming PC by Phil (VOGONS member 😀 ))

its more that i want a board that was the best u could get at the time.. 1992/1993
yes i could use a board that is form 1997 but then i would be cheating as this technology was not around at the time of 1992/1993.

u see i like alot of music that was released in 1992/1993 and i want to see what it was like to work with the technology of that specific time because its culturally important to me.

if anyone could offer any assisstance or direction for me to accomplish this goal id be very appreciative!!

would i need to get an ISA video card aswell? or were they called VESA graphics cards or something?? does anyone know more about this?
what type of video card should i get for a 486...
ideally i wanted to put together a 486 dx2 66mhz machine!
i was around 14-15 years old at this time and i used to build these machines at my first job ever but its so long ago..
i cant remember the specifics

i have a pci mach64 card that says 1995 on it thats the oldest i have - i dont have any ISA or VESA graphics cards.. so i need to know what to get!

nice awe32 sound card i have one of those myself!!! i just upgraded the ram to max on it..

Choose a motherboard first, then go looking for the expansion boards. I'm not too experienced with pre-1995 hardware, but someone here should be able to tell you what's period correct. If it is a VLB 486 board, then get a VLB multi-IO and a VLB graphics card as that was the best you could use back then. If it is an ISA only system, then hunt for ISA multi-IO and graphics card. I doubt PCI was around so far back... 1994/1995 486-class hardware, yes, but 1992/1993 probably not.

Oh, and for composing music don't get an AWE if you intend to be period correct (they are from 1994). Honestly, don't get an AWE32 even if you do not care about period correctness. They have the hanging note bug when communicating with external modules/wavetables. 1992 means SB16, and with those you either have bug-free MPU-401 and bad sound quality or good sound quality and buggy MPU-401. To really use 1992/1993 hardware for music composing odds are you'll need a discrete ISA MPU-401 interface to connect your synths, and a SBPro or the older SB16 models for digital sound. Or maybe a classic Gravis Ultrasound (those are harder to get) instead of a Creative card.

i have a bunch of different interfaces so far
i have a winman 4x4 (isa)
also a portman 4x4 (parallel)

i also have a MOTU MidiTimePiece AV (parallel)
as well as an Opcode 64XTC (serial)
and Opcode 128x (serial)

i think the winman doesnt work outside of windows but
i know i have had the winman working in windows 3.1
i think the portman works in windows 3.1 aswell
im not sure if any of those work in dos.. but yes.. none of those were around in 1992
i think the original winman 1x1 or 2x2 might have been out as early as 94 tho?

right now the only board i have available to me before a pentium 4 is a Socket 370 board called an Aopen AX3SU
its got a tualatin PIII 1.4ghz cpu in it.. but its too fast for Cubase... the scrolling in + out inside the program happens
insanely fast, much like playing a dos game on a way faster cpu results in it moving too fast to play.. which is why
im trying to do this!!! i tried a few "Slow down the cpu" tricks but decided i didnt want to mess with that and id like to have
a computer that is period-correct for the time of cubase score 1.03d (92/93/94)

i used to run a BBS back then too so theres other reasons i want the nostalgia!! i was 14/15 years old and i loved my computer back then!
i had a packard bell system that was a dx2 66mhz system i think.. with the monitor that had the speakers attached to either side..
wish id kept it somewhere!!

vetz wrote:

Yes, it's a Pentium board. Afaik no 486 ATX boards exist. Are you sure Cubase Score 1.03D requires a 486 to run? A Pentium 75 is […]
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Yes, it's a Pentium board. Afaik no 486 ATX boards exist. Are you sure Cubase Score 1.03D requires a 486 to run? A Pentium 75 is pretty slow (equal to the faster 486 cpu's), and you can make an ATX board slower by disabling the caches.

Maybe this can interesting for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcAqRbFFQPU
(Buildng a 4 in 1 Retro Gaming PC by Phil (VOGONS member 😀 ))

thanks for that clip.. its interesting.. i never had an AMD K6 chip ever..
so you are suggesting i go for a socket 5 board?

i just figured out P54 = socket 5
and P55 = socket 7
i think??

i wonder if theres any way to run my tualatin 1.4ghz cpu in 66mhz Bus mode? maybe thats why all my programs are too fast? because its running in 133mhz bus? which is 2 huge steps up from 66mhz bus??

does an Ensoniq AudioPCI work as a midi interface under DOS with its DOS drivers? (replacement for MPU-401?)
http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/index.php?catid=41

God no... It might actually work but will need EMM386 and does need a TSR driver. When it comes to a DOS machine, stick to ISA or something like a YMF724 on a Pentium 2/3 motherboard with a PC/PCI connector.

ok i think i will try to get an Asus TX97 series board.. seems to support 168 pin SDRAM, aswell as ATX form factor + 3 or 4 ISA slots..
aswell supporting pentium 75Mhz chips through to the K6 AMD up to 233Mhz and UDMA33 IDE speeds

if i put in a pentium 75Mhz CPU it will basically be as fast as a 486 right?

http://www.interloper.com/resultsmb.php?mfg%5 … rchMb=List+Form

386/486 OEMs run most DOS titles from that era just fine. I only have 1 generic PC (not self built: was a medical build) and all my other machines are OEMs.

Plentiful and indeed cheap: RAM / FDD / CPU / PSU / MOBO / RAM / case usually all combined under $100 shipped.

chrisNova777 wrote:

ok i think i will try to get an Asus TX97 series board.. seems to support 168 pin SDRAM, aswell as ATX form factor + 3 or 4 ISA […]
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ok i think i will try to get an Asus TX97 series board.. seems to support 168 pin SDRAM, aswell as ATX form factor + 3 or 4 ISA slots..
aswell supporting pentium 75Mhz chips through to the K6 AMD up to 233Mhz and UDMA33 IDE speeds

if i put in a pentium 75Mhz CPU it will basically be as fast as a 486 right?

http://www.interloper.com/resultsmb.php?mfg%5 … rchMb=List+Form

A 75MHz Pentium should be faster than a 100MHz 486. It will drop to 386-ish speed grade if you disable the internal and external caches.

The best PC motherboard in 1993 would probably be something EISA based with VLB slots, like a Tyan S1437, AMI Enterprise, Nice SuperEISA etc. Pentium 60/66 systems were available in 1993, but in general the platforms were pretty horrible. Pentiums didn't get good boards until 1994.

chrisNova777 wrote:

It is possible, several early ATX cases has AT mounts, but there will be a big hole at the I/O ports, unless you can find an AT backplate for ATX (almost non-existant!).

I have no idea why this is the case, there just sheets of metal with one big hole in them. I suppose the only reason there scarce is because there wasn't much demand. I don't see why someone cant make their own with a cheap piece of sheet metal, a small drill, a dab of hot glue (or tape) and 20 minutes of their time.

its impossible to find AT style case anywhere in my area. they have a recycling center in town that crushes all the used computer stuff - they have been crushing this kind of old electronics for the last 5-10 years all over north america.. so its hard to find ones that were 'saved' from the crusher

soviet conscript wrote:

I have no idea why this is the case, there just sheets of metal with one big hole in them. I suppose the only reason there scarce is because there wasn't much demand. I don't see why someone cant make their own with a cheap piece of sheet metal, a small drill, a dab of hot glue (or tape) and 20 minutes of their time.

I have seen a couple of early ATX cases, that was sold with shields for both AT and ATX boards. The ATX plates was more or less identical the first years.
The cases I saw them bundeled with was A-Open cases. I think people just threw out what was left when a computer was being build.

chrisNova777 wrote:

its impossible to find AT style case anywhere in my area. they have a recycling center in town that crushes all the used computer stuff - they have been crushing this kind of old electronics for the last 5-10 years all over north america.. so its hard to find ones that were 'saved' from the crusher

Yeah... I know it. We have had the same shit going on here in Denmark, since like the 90's.
Good for the earth, bad for our hobby. Anyway...
They should sell what's still usefull and scrap what's not working.