VOGONS


Issue with GA-6VTXE and IDE Drives

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First post, by MrEWhite

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My specs on this machine are as listed below:
GA-6VTXE
Pentium 3 1.13 GHz
256 MB PC100 RAM
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
Soundblaster AWE64 Gold
Now, when ever I try using IDE drives (about four of them at this point) they always freeze the machine, but they freeze at different points on each drive. But each drive freezes at the same point as they always do. I just wanted to know if this is a issue with the board or my drives?

Last edited by MrEWhite on 2016-01-02, 09:29. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 20, by PCBONEZ

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Are you using the drives all at once or one at a time?

At what point do they freeze?

What is the PSU? - Have you checked it for bloated caps?

Latest BIOS rev?

What size drives? Compatible with the BIOS limits?
.

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Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
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Reply 2 of 20, by MrEWhite

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PCBONEZ wrote:
Are you using the drives all at once or one at a time? […]
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Are you using the drives all at once or one at a time?

At what point do they freeze?

What is the PSU? - Have you checked it for bloated caps?

Latest BIOS rev?

What size drives? Compatible with the BIOS limits?
.

1. One at a time
2. Each drive freezes when writing to a certain sector (each sector from each drive is different)
3. Yes
4. 6 GB all the way to 120GB.

Reply 3 of 20, by PhilsComputerLab

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I have that board. I had to replace all the big caps when I got it. It works well now.

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Reply 4 of 20, by PCBONEZ

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Does it do the same from both controller ports?

Bad caps are a possibility. Pretty rare problem for caps but it does happen.
My niece's P4 Soyo board did something like this (on one port only) and it was a small bad cap near the port.
On her's it kept corrupting the files needed to start Windows so Windows would freeze on a bad file while loading.
New cap fixed it.

I've seen several other cases of bad caps corrupting data on HDDs over at Badcaps.net.
Like I said, it's rare but it happens.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 5 of 20, by MrEWhite

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PCBONEZ wrote:
Does it do the same from both controller ports? […]
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Does it do the same from both controller ports?

Bad caps are a possibility. Pretty rare problem for caps but it does happen.
My niece's P4 Soyo board did something like this (on one port only) and it was a small bad cap near the port.
On her's it kept corrupting the files needed to start Windows so Windows would freeze on a bad file while loading.
New cap fixed it.

I've seen several other cases of bad caps corrupting data on HDDs over at Badcaps.net.
Like I said, it's rare but it happens.
.

It doesn't exactly corrupt data, it just freezes. Also, none of the caps on the board visually look bad or are leaking.

Reply 6 of 20, by PCBONEZ

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MrEWhite wrote:
PCBONEZ wrote:
Does it do the same from both controller ports? […]
Show full quote

Does it do the same from both controller ports?

Bad caps are a possibility. Pretty rare problem for caps but it does happen.
My niece's P4 Soyo board did something like this (on one port only) and it was a small bad cap near the port.
On her's it kept corrupting the files needed to start Windows so Windows would freeze on a bad file while loading.
New cap fixed it.

I've seen several other cases of bad caps corrupting data on HDDs over at Badcaps.net.
Like I said, it's rare but it happens.
.

It doesn't exactly corrupt data, it just freezes. Also, none of the caps on the board visually look bad or are leaking.

Probably 1/4 to 1/2 of bad caps show no visual signs at all.
Bloated/leaking caps proves bad.
Lack of bloating/leaking does not prove good.
.
Not being able to parse the MBR is similar to data corruption. (Signals mucked up vice just bad power.)
What are the drives doing when they freeze? - Scandisk? Format? Loading the OS?
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 7 of 20, by gdjacobs

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Sometimes drive problems are manifestations of other things. I had a K6-2 chompers clocked too high (thought it was a CXT) which booted properly off an IDE drive, but failed to boot the OS with an IDE to SATA adapter.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 8 of 20, by MrEWhite

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PCBONEZ wrote:
Probably 1/4 to 1/2 of bad caps show no visual signs at all. Bloated/leaking caps proves bad. Lack of bloating/leaking does not […]
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MrEWhite wrote:
PCBONEZ wrote:
Does it do the same from both controller ports? […]
Show full quote

Does it do the same from both controller ports?

Bad caps are a possibility. Pretty rare problem for caps but it does happen.
My niece's P4 Soyo board did something like this (on one port only) and it was a small bad cap near the port.
On her's it kept corrupting the files needed to start Windows so Windows would freeze on a bad file while loading.
New cap fixed it.

I've seen several other cases of bad caps corrupting data on HDDs over at Badcaps.net.
Like I said, it's rare but it happens.
.

It doesn't exactly corrupt data, it just freezes. Also, none of the caps on the board visually look bad or are leaking.

Probably 1/4 to 1/2 of bad caps show no visual signs at all.
Bloated/leaking caps proves bad.
Lack of bloating/leaking does not prove good.
.
Not being able to parse the MBR is similar to data corruption. (Signals mucked up vice just bad power.)
What are the drives doing when they freeze? - Scandisk? Format? Loading the OS?
.

Happens when just copying files over from a disc or USB drive. Only one drive wouldn't even go through format, but all the other drives install the OS fine, and doesn't freeze on the base run (running Scandisk on a 120GB drive right now though.)

Reply 9 of 20, by PCBONEZ

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MrEWhite wrote:

Happens when just copying files over from a disc or USB drive. Only one drive wouldn't even go through format, but all the other drives install the OS fine, and doesn't freeze on the base run (running Scandisk on a 120GB drive right now though.)

Do you have drive read and write cache enabled?

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 10 of 20, by MrEWhite

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PCBONEZ wrote:
MrEWhite wrote:

Happens when just copying files over from a disc or USB drive. Only one drive wouldn't even go through format, but all the other drives install the OS fine, and doesn't freeze on the base run (running Scandisk on a 120GB drive right now though.)

Do you have drive read and write cache enabled?

The Scandisk went through fine, no errors found.
I tried to copy a simple file over from a USB drive and the machine froze.
I went into a program called "TweakBIOS" mentioned in my thread with a issue on the Voodoo 3 and disabled two things which sounded like something like write cache/posting (Prefetch Buffer and Post Write Buffer) and I was able to move over the file I was having issues with. I also was able to copy over my entire Games folder and it also worked fine!

Reply 11 of 20, by Tetrium

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MrEWhite wrote:
My specs on this machine are as listed below: GA-6VTXE Pentium 3 1.13 GHz 512 MB PC100 RAM Voodoo 3 3000 AGP Soundblaster AWE64 […]
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My specs on this machine are as listed below:
GA-6VTXE
Pentium 3 1.13 GHz
512 MB PC100 RAM
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
Soundblaster AWE64 Gold
Now, when ever I try using IDE drives (about four of them at this point) they always freeze the machine, but they freeze at different points on each drive. But each drive freezes at the same point as they always do. I just wanted to know if this is a issue with the board or my drives?

Your P3 1.13 doesn't happen to be one of those recalled ones by any chance?

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My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 12 of 20, by MrEWhite

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Tetrium wrote:
MrEWhite wrote:
My specs on this machine are as listed below: GA-6VTXE Pentium 3 1.13 GHz 512 MB PC100 RAM Voodoo 3 3000 AGP Soundblaster AWE64 […]
Show full quote

My specs on this machine are as listed below:
GA-6VTXE
Pentium 3 1.13 GHz
512 MB PC100 RAM
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
Soundblaster AWE64 Gold
Now, when ever I try using IDE drives (about four of them at this point) they always freeze the machine, but they freeze at different points on each drive. But each drive freezes at the same point as they always do. I just wanted to know if this is a issue with the board or my drives?

Your P3 1.13 doesn't happen to be one of those recalled ones by any chance?

Nah, it isn't Slot 1.

Reply 13 of 20, by Tetrium

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MrEWhite wrote:
Tetrium wrote:
MrEWhite wrote:
My specs on this machine are as listed below: GA-6VTXE Pentium 3 1.13 GHz 512 MB PC100 RAM Voodoo 3 3000 AGP Soundblaster AWE64 […]
Show full quote

My specs on this machine are as listed below:
GA-6VTXE
Pentium 3 1.13 GHz
512 MB PC100 RAM
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
Soundblaster AWE64 Gold
Now, when ever I try using IDE drives (about four of them at this point) they always freeze the machine, but they freeze at different points on each drive. But each drive freezes at the same point as they always do. I just wanted to know if this is a issue with the board or my drives?

Your P3 1.13 doesn't happen to be one of those recalled ones by any chance?

Nah, it isn't Slot 1.

I know this might not be the problem, but you "could" temporarily swap the CPU for something like a 700MHz 100FSB Slot-1 CPU and see if this helps?
This would also underclock the RAM, which is intentional, and as it's Slot-1 it would be very easy to do quickly.

edit: I just noticed this:

MrEWhite wrote:
My specs on this machine are as listed below: GA-6VTXE Pentium 3 1.13 GHz 512 MB PC100 RAM Voodoo 3 3000 AGP Soundblaster AWE64 […]
Show full quote

My specs on this machine are as listed below:
GA-6VTXE
Pentium 3 1.13 GHz
512 MB PC100 RAM
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
Soundblaster AWE64 Gold

Might be the RAM.

Are you using a single 512MB DIMM btw? Never knew these could come in PC-100-only modules as all I saw was PC-133 ones.
And if you're using lots of smaller modules, this might stress the system (especially if you're using lots of different modules).

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 14 of 20, by MrEWhite

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Tetrium wrote:

Are you using a single 512MB DIMM btw? Never knew these could come in PC-100-only modules as all I saw was PC-133 ones.
And if you're using lots of smaller modules, this might stress the system (especially if you're using lots of different modules).

I did fix the issue as I said above, but it was only 256 MB of RAM though, two 64, one 128. And the board is a Socket 370.

Reply 15 of 20, by Tetrium

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MrEWhite wrote:
Tetrium wrote:

Are you using a single 512MB DIMM btw? Never knew these could come in PC-100-only modules as all I saw was PC-133 ones.
And if you're using lots of smaller modules, this might stress the system (especially if you're using lots of different modules).

I did fix the issue as I said above, but it was only 256 MB of RAM though, two 64, one 128. And the board is a Socket 370.

Ah crap, I'm an idiot, 🤣!

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 16 of 20, by MrEWhite

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Well, the issue is still a PITA because I have to change those settings every time after boot. I would love a permanent solution 😒

Reply 17 of 20, by MrEWhite

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Well, the issue is still there sadly. How would I be able to tell if the PSU is bad or if a cap/caps are bad? I am also only using 128MB of RAM now btw.

Reply 18 of 20, by PCBONEZ

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MrEWhite wrote:

Well, the issue is still there sadly. How would I be able to tell if the PSU is bad or if a cap/caps are bad? I am also only using 128MB of RAM now btw.

There are some things you can do but you can't fully check either without soldering skills and some test equipment.

The PSU:
You can check the DC voltages with a basic multimeter.
- That is important but won't show you how much ripple is present, which is also important. For the latter you need an O'Scope.
- You generally don't need an O'Scope if you can fully check caps - although a scope can still come in handy.
The scope needs to be able to see millivolts at approximately 100kHz. (Say 10kHz to 500KHz.) That's not too tough a requirement.
Depending on how lucky you in shopping a used scope that will work would probably run $100-$400.

Back to the PSU: (With it disconnected from line power for 5 to 10 minutes at least.)
Beware a faulty PSU may have caps with residual charge up to 400VDC depending on the design. Not common but can happen..
Check for voltage on any caps you might fondle and also the exposed heatsinks before you start sticking things in there.
Now do a visual internal inspection.
- Look for bloated/leaking caps.
- Look for places/parts that show signs of overheating. (Darkened circuit board is one give-away.)
- Look for burned traces and/or melted insulation.
- Look for cracked IC chips or signs there has been melting inside. (Shinny spots. Pits.)
Anything you find suspect explore in greater detail.

Caps (no matter what they are in.)
To fully and correctly check caps you need to pull them (to bench test) and have some test equipment.
They need to be pulled because 'in circuit' there are usually parallel paths so measurements are not accurate.
The test equipment [And rough cost estimate.]
- An ESR meter with a test signal of 100kHz that is readable to +/- 0.01 ohms. Which means a digital one. [ $75-$125 ]
- A basic capacitance meter that covers the range from .01 uF to around 10,000uF. [Under $50. Sometimes much less.]
- A basic multimeter. [ A $10 cheapie from the department store is good enough for this.]
[[ An ESR meter does basically the same thing as a resistance meter except it does it with an AC test signal rather than with a DC voltage. ]]

You can with a multimeter do the 'old school' kind of tests but that is incomplete testing for low ESR caps (will only find some bad ones) and they still need to be pulled first.
That procedure is all over on-line so I'm not going to repeat it.
.
To fully test caps you need to.
- Check the ESR is within the range specified in the datasheet.
- Check the Capacitance is within the range specified in the datasheet. (This is almost always +/-20% of the marking.)
- Check with the multimeter set to resistance that the cap is not a dead-open or a dead-short.
(A shorted cap may appear to be good if you only check ESR.)
(Any one of those parameters can be out of spec while the other two test fine. Depends on what the cap's problem is.)
.
.
.
People on Vogons seem to have trouble wrapping their head around the idea that as retro gear gets older bad caps ARE going to become part of their life.
(The 15 year age is according to Nichicon.)
At about 15 years old caps enter what is called the "Wear-out" phase of their lifetime.
Once into the wear-out phase the failure rate of caps goes up exponentially with time in years. (It's the famous "Bathtub Curve".)
Example. If 1% fail at 15 years old - then: 2% fail at 16 years old, 4% fail at 17 years old, 8% fail at 18 years old ... and so on.
(That 1% was picked out of thin air in aid of discussion. I dunno what the actual rate is at 15 years.)
It (the 15 years) applies to ALL Aluminum Electrolytic caps. Nothing at all to do with good vs bad brands or the Capacitor Plague.

-
So, IMHO, if you are going to be into any kind of retro electronics for the long haul it would be in your best interest to learn how to test and replace caps.

And please note that socket 370 faded away about 15 years ago. The last ones built are 'officially' entering the wear-out phase this year.
80486 faded away about 20 years ago.
Fortunately 486s did not stress caps all that much so they are lasting longer than expected but they are still going to wear-out eventually.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 19 of 20, by MrEWhite

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Well, bringing this thread back. Turning off those 2 cache options through tweakbios still fixes my issues completely. Anyone know a permanent solution to this? I have also tried a Celeron 1100-A cpu.