VOGONS


First post, by TryAgain

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I am interested in this question. Google search gives me a lot of ram disk stuff
which is close but not exactly what I need.

Old rigs are good for old stuff software. But everyone have had desire to
teach the old dog new tricks.

There is ancient solution to this eternal question- in essence- use virtual
memory, more and more, the better.

Back then, in old days and even now this spell lacks magic. It doesn't work.
It is SLOW at least...

But desire remains...feeding on this clue.

Most 486 class processors can use 4GB physical and 1TB virtual memory!

I found one guy, may be vogon member, which achieved this feat.

http://wp.xin.at/archives/574

Basically, he run new program, x264 benchmark on i486-100 the latest and
greatest and won the last but in vogons point of view the first place in the
score list.
The benchmark took 8 months in waiting for the end year... He used server
class motherboard with 128MB of ram memory and... late SCSI disk with rare
controller with lot of cache.

He over ran and discussed a lot of problems to do that, but one of them he
hits and remains unanswered is this, Did use of paging hurt performance? He
claims it doesn't.
In fact, the performance wasn't goal at all, ... just the finish. The nature
of benchmark requires around 180 MB of ram.

So how to increase memory to around this amount easily?

The question is not new, nor original. For example it was discussed in vague here.
https://hardforum.com/threads/hard-drive-base … al-ssd.1114844/

Using SSD drive can show the real performance of such sort of solution, but
not quite so, they wear out.
In fact, good SSDs contain a lot of cache- 256MB are common, if only
companies producing them include in firmware of the drive a kind of jumper
which will resurect the drive as operated as dynamic ram disk,voila, that
will solve the problem that concern me.

I found this site
http://www.s100computers.com
It's very techy. But its encourage me to think that is possible.

The Micron Xpoint memory is advertising as game changer. In my opinion, it
will work as union of cache which is DRAM and Flash ram. So in this case,
cache match exactly flash. it's from now on never smaller. The long life come
from that that this cache is flushed on power off, so in server life this
kind of SSD is even more everlasting. In essence, one chip-two faces. Such
SSD will again solve the problem.

Another simple, but cost solution, buy 1TB SSD keep eye on cache in it. Then
create partition which match the cache. Firmware on disk for sure will never make
write operation, because cache is enough for maintain the data.

There exist 72 pins memory sticks which are of high capacity 64MB and 128 MB,
but they themselves have problems - other voltage operation, bios doesn't like
them and are not cacheable. Maximum extension on two slot memory 256 MB.

There are other solutions, multiplexing memory module on existing slot
through utilizing additional address pins of processor, but this broke
cache-ability of any size memory. This must be done for cache but remain
complex.

This can be done with adding an expansion card, but will require driver
similar to what disk controller needed.

So in view of last link to site given, It is more feasible if there is some
interface chip to ide port which address and read-write memory slot, for
example sdram stick which has 168 contact pins only. In such solution 512MB
will be attainable as one swap file. Such disk must register in
initialization with some letter and than maintain just one file in FAT32.

The essence is that cpu works serially and only with few memory
cells in a time. So paging mechanism take care of keeping the illusion that
there is contiguous line of ram available.

Please, someone with experience in hardware or low system software gives
value on this idea. For example, win98 operating system which can handle
no more than 512 MB. One 128MB sdram stick will cost a dollar.

The effect will be more pronounced on 486, because from any size memory
present on system the great leap will be four- five times.

Your comments follows.

Reply 1 of 3, by nforce4max

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Using a SSD will still be too slow as there is still a significant bottleneck, simm expanders existed for this reason plus.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 2 of 3, by elianda

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The limits are more like how high capacity PS/2 SIMM work with the chipset and how many SIMM slots you have. Typically this limits to about 512 MB.
For the Asus mainboard based on the Intel Saturn II that GaT used for the x264 bench the maximum SIMM size is 32 MB and with 4 slots you end up at 128 MB.

As for the hard disk it would make more sense to think of some SCSI RAID that is fast enough to saturate the PCI bus bandwidth. (Still memory speed would then limit)

However a 386 instead can use 64 TB virtual memory. You have to find an OS to support it though...

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Reply 3 of 3, by TryAgain

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Thanks for your comments.

Gigabyte i-ram was the right such solution but was directed to very thin niche, so it is expensive and rare today.

My motivation was this. I don't play any games and in fact don't use the old computers for anything now because it misfits for every task.

For example, I did browsing in 2008 year just for fun, but back then some mobile devices lag in specs and that drags the Internet stuff bearable for old gems. Now mobile devices are ahead of some desktop office machines.

For example tomshardware site was loaded in around seven minutes on 486dx5 in Seamonkey but of course there was no flash and JavaScript was painfully sluggish. It is annoying to check what version can run on 486 class processor and in win95 environment and under constant threat of being pierced with malware.

I have used manual hyper-tabs scheduling 😀 While one is loaded I read the other one.

The topic is just one small aspect of the big problem. How old computers can keep pace with modern ones. Somewhere in forum was a question about whether vogons members will accept new parts for example through adapter possibility to connect old ide port to sata drive or use of flash devices.
I believe that some 486 core will go wild as open source. I doubt that this would come from Intel, they use P5 core for modern high density parallel designs. I met somewhere simulation of P5 processor with FPGA chip done years before. This FPGA can be put in high megahertz.
Do you stay on common DX2 or DX4 speed? I doubt.

Youtube realized what has conceived way earlier, to have different level of details of their clips so every client will catch with content - network bandwidth and cpu processing power. This doesn't hurt storage space it is just of how the thing is organized, nothing more.

There was two option in compilers. Optimize for speed or memory. Old computers lose in both.

Nowadays one picture in jpg format with massive pixels count when decompressed will easily eat ram memory of every 486 machine. But jpq2000 format can be tuned to client needs and no information or experience will be lost in browsing fun.

For benchmarking purposes,x264 code couldn't be touched but everyone agrees that for 486 it is quite suboptimal in every aspect.

The pentium 3, the loser of 1 Ghz race was advertised as ready for Internet of things in time of Millennium. Now it is irreversibly outdated.
The IBM PC compatibility is so illusive.

Which way the fate will go to stick to old stuff in every aspect or emulate and simulate with modern resources at least functional layer of PC compatibility.

In every occasion memory is of high importance. The question is where to introduce the implant on SIMM slot which leads to bios modification, on pci bus which needs driver for OS or ide port which need just change of back-end interfacing to SDRAM instead of SD card (n/a CF card it is direct).
I tacitly assume that this matter concerns mass consumer motherboards with 8 or 32 MB write-backed RAM present in all SIMM slots.
The difference will be more (four times) page fault interrupts in first than in second case. But maybe this will not hurt performance deeply i.e. no noticeable difference. There be around 44 plus 168 soldering points in last solution.

Your thoughts.