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Wading slowly into the 486 waters

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First post, by clueless1

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I came across an ebay listing for a 486 VLB motherboard with a DX2/66, 256kb cache and 4MB. Not much info, not even whether it worked or not. Price was $39 shipped. I was tempted, but knew I didn't have an AT case, keyboard, PSU, etc. I posted it in the "Ebay auctions cheap/special not for me, but maybe for you?" thread. The next day, I noticed it still hadn't sold. I thought some more, then decided what the heck. At the same time, I bought an AT to PS/2 adapter ($2.50) and an ATX to AT PSU adapter with power switch ($8.50). I already owned a VLB graphics card (the only 486 component I held onto from back in the day). I looked at the controller cards, but they were much pricier than I expected. Minimum $30 for a VLB card, and not much less for an ISA. So I bought the mobo, keyboard and PSU adapters for $50 total and decided to wait for better prices on the I/O card. The motherboard arrived looking brand new. Barrel battery looked new too--no leakage whatsoever. After I hooked it all up on the bench, it powered on! Without an I/O card I couldn't do more than go into the BIOS and poke around. I did figure out that the barrel battery would not hold a charge, so I went ahead and desoldered it and made a CR2032 adapter for the battery header. After testing, it worked. Great!

It turns out the motherboard is the same brand as my graphics card: Genoa TurboExpress 3-VL, with an SiS 85C461 chipset. I did find the motherboard manual online, but cannot find any performance info on this motherboard or chipset. Nothing in Phil's VGA database, etc. Anyone know how this board/chipset performs compared to other VLB boards of the day?

My graphics card is a Genoa 8500VL with a Cirrus Logic GD5428 chip (Rev A if that means anything). It's a total fluke that I held onto this card. I couldn't tell you why, I just know I found it among my belongings in my old bedroom when I visited my mom last summer.

So my first question is, what type of HDD support should I expect with typical VLB I/O cards? Will I need a 500MB HDD to work with them, or will they recognize something bigger? Because the smallest working HDD I have is 1GB. Just trying to plan out any additional expenses ahead of time. Here's some photos:

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removed the old battery
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Thanks!

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Reply 1 of 72, by Brickpad

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If the BIOS doesn't support hard drives with capacities >500MB. you can use overlay software to access the drive's full capacity.

[EDIT]

Interesting to see that they used a non-rechargeable lithium battery. Probably the board's saving grace. You can still buy those particular Tadaran batteries too.

Reply 2 of 72, by clueless1

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No wonder it looks so clean. Here's the same board that Malik bought in 2009, but with a rechargeable (badly leaking) battery:
486 Motherboard Shipment Arrived

So the motherboard BIOS still controls the HDD size, even with an add-in controller card? It's been so long since I've worked with a 486 i can't remember!

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Reply 3 of 72, by nforce4max

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That is correct the bios controls the size limits for most boards, that battery that came with your board is lithium based which is good as the barrel of cancers (nicads) always loves to leak and destroy everything. Your board is nos so nice buy, just give a 1-8gb drive a try and if the board doesn't take the full capacity then it is limited. I got lucky with mine but you can use overlay software to make up the difference. Beyond that get some more ram and you are set, if anything I am finding socket 3 pretty easy to work with in my ventures.

Be sure to get an i/o ide and floppy controller (single card) that has all the cables to it so that you don't have to scrounge.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 4 of 72, by brostenen

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They hold a charge pretty good, them batteries. Strange that it is dead.
Nice purchase anyway. 😀
If you can not find an AT case, then go searching for an AT compatible ATX case.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 5 of 72, by nforce4max

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brostenen wrote:

They hold a charge pretty good, them batteries. Strange that it is dead.
Nice purchase anyway. 😀
If you can not find an AT case, then go searching for an AT compatible ATX case.

Or just mod a modern one that has enough room 😉
Drill the board tray and thread the holes for the stand offs then mount as normal. 😀

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 6 of 72, by clueless1

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So I didn't need to remove the battery. 🤣. Oh well, at least I did a clean job of it.

Does $30-50 seem fair for an I/O controller? I was surprised how much they were commanding. I expected them to be in the $10-15 range.

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Reply 7 of 72, by nforce4max

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clueless1 wrote:

So I didn't need to remove the battery. 🤣. Oh well, at least I did a clean job of it.

Does $30-50 seem fair for an I/O controller? I was surprised how much they were commanding. I expected them to be in the $10-15 range.

Keep digging around on eBay as some are listen for as little as $15 a pop, there might be a few vlb controllers for cheap but there are some isa that are priced low. If you get any vlb cards make sure the seller isn't a dumbass that ships in bags (I got ripped off recently).

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 8 of 72, by TheMobRules

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Congrats on getting a 486 board! "You have taken your first steps into a larger world..." 😁

Judging by the year of your BIOS (1993), it likely supports LBA (>500MB) for HDDs. At least all my 486 motherboards with 1993 BIOS support LBA. In any case there are alternatives, so go with a 1-8GB HDD as suggested (or CF + adapter).

That video card should be fine, I have a CL-GD5430 which is quite similar and it performs well, has good compatibility. Do not expect awesome performance on SVGA resolutions (640x480x256c) and up, but for the standard 320x200 DOS games of that era it is more than enough.

Regarding the I/O controller, sometimes cheap options pop up on eBay. Personally, I wouldn't spend any extra $ on a VLB controller as I don't think the performance increase is worth it over an ISA card. Keep in mind that at the time the drives were significantly slower, and that bottleneck would mask any improvement a VLB controller could provide. So unless you want use specific features, such as a controller with cache, or you manage to get a VLB card for free I would stick with ISA.

One final thing: if you go with a CF-IDE adapter, sometimes it wants to be the only thing in its IDE channel, so if you're going to use an optical drive you can consider a sound card with an integrated ATAPI controller to have the drives on separate channels.

Reply 9 of 72, by brostenen

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clueless1 wrote:

So I didn't need to remove the battery. 🤣. Oh well, at least I did a clean job of it.

Depends on how nice you want the board to look 🤣 I soldered an rechargeable button cell battery onto one of my 486 boards. 😀
Some boards do not charge and some do charge the battery, just be aware of that. 😉

This is the same kind of battery that I bought on eBay... (I think that it is cheap)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LIR2032-Li-ion-3- … 4MAAOSwpDdVGVUE

04.jpg
05.jpg

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 10 of 72, by clueless1

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The 486 has a special place in my heart, as it is the first platform that I built my own PC on. Up to about 1991 I was on the Apple IIe. Then I got a Packard Bell 386 and the following year built a 486SX/25 (around 1992-3). But I haven't touched 486 components since, so a lot of my knowledge will have to be re-learned.

I do have a couple of AT-compatible ATX cases with those pop-out spots for serial and parallel ports, so I should be good there. I'll have to jury-rig a backplate.

Not sure how I will handle the power switch though. I have one built into my ATX-to-AT PSU adapter. I'll have to see if that can be worked into the existing power button on the case. Ideally I will come across an AT case with turbo LED, since this mobo has a turbo header I'd like to take advantage of.

Thx for the feedback! Especially about the ISA vs. VLB controller. Yeah, I want VLB, but I suppose ISA will work fine with an old/slow HDD. I already have spare ISA soundcards and floppy drives, so I'm not too far off from having a bootable DOS system. Mainly I want to run VGA benchmarks. 😀 I have no desire for SVGA gaming on this, as my main DOS rig is already set up for that.

brostenen-cool, thanks for the tip! My "fix" seems to be working fine, but if I get to the point where I want a cleaner look, that seems like a sweet solution.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
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Reply 11 of 72, by brostenen

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Thanks. 😀

For power buttons, then I have bought a couple of these for some future AT in an ATX case, or homemade AT case (if I ever get to that):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-New-Mini-2-pin-Rou … xwAAOSwUgNXPJY0

A little soldering and use of shrinkwrap, might just be enough, after drilling holes for these connectors on the frontpanel somewere.
I have two, meaning I can use them for power and turbo. 😉

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 12 of 72, by TheMobRules

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Another option you can consider for the power switch is to replace the momentary ATX power button of the case with a self-locking on/off button of the same type, and then solder the new button to the adapter green & black wires.

Of course, this depends on the type of button your case uses, but I have noticed that many ATX cases use these little 8mm square buttons:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pcs-8x8-mm-Square-B … R0AAOSwqu9VPR2Q#

If you can do this, it would allow you to cleanly re-use your case power button without having to drill any extra holes. For the turbo button you would need another kind of solution though, such as what brostenen suggested.

Reply 14 of 72, by clueless1

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Yeah, this is what I have now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261220357324?_trksid= … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
If I could somehow mount that behind the case power button, I wonder if it would push in enough to activate.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 15 of 72, by Brickpad

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clueless1 wrote:

So I didn't need to remove the battery. 🤣. Oh well, at least I did a clean job of it.

Does $30-50 seem fair for an I/O controller? I was surprised how much they were commanding. I expected them to be in the $10-15 range.

Check your inbox. I might be able to help you.

Reply 16 of 72, by brostenen

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clueless1 wrote:

Yeah, this is what I have now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261220357324?_trksid= … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
If I could somehow mount that behind the case power button, I wonder if it would push in enough to activate.

If you have an ATX case allready, then post a pisture of the ATX powerbutton. (from inside the case)
Users here might be able to help you figure out a solution. 😀

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 17 of 72, by clueless1

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Here's some pics of the case.

overview.jpg
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outside_frontpanel.jpg
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inside_frontpanel.jpg
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The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 18 of 72, by ODwilly

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clueless1 wrote:
Here's some pics of the case. […]
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Here's some pics of the case.

overview.jpg
outside_frontpanel.jpg
inside_frontpanel.jpg
power_inside.jpg

I own that same case!

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Reply 19 of 72, by PhilsComputerLab

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A 486 is always something special 😀

For the power switches, in the end I used one of these 3.5" to 5.25" bay devices. On the sides there is some space and I just drilled two holes and put switches in. One for power, one for turbo 😊

You can do the same thing with a read slot cover, but then you got to reach around. Still works well.

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