VOGONS


Edge antialising before FSAA

Topic actions

First post, by 386SX

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Hi,
of the features I remember reading back in its times, Edge antialiasing was one that I never ever seen the theorical improvements in still frames. Before the FSAA was the usual stuff you could clearly see the quality improvements, did anyone can post or say where you could see any pixel differences in game supporting edge antialiasing?
Thank

Reply 1 of 24, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

If you've got a 3dfx card, you'll most often see it on the splash animation. 😀 and that's usually the only place you'll ever see it.

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 2 of 24, by Scali

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

The only common type of edge antialiasing I know is MSAA, but FSAA predates that technology.
FSAA became a standard feature around the DX7 era I suppose (GeForce, Radeon etc), where MSAA became commonplace with DX9 (Radeon 9700, GeForce FX).
I know there have also been some weird hacks by alphablending lines over the edges of polygons and such.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 4 of 24, by agent_x007

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

There was no "AA" before FSAA (from 3DFx), because before that you didn't exacly could implement it (Anti Aliasing in 2D or in low perf. 3D cards ?). I'm also not sure if 3Dfx didn't had a patent for FSAA.

BTW : Old FSAA = Super Sampling (or SSAA) of today.

Since 2005 (in NV case), there is also that Transparency AA for textures (because MSAA doesn't work on those).

157143230295.png

Reply 5 of 24, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
agent_x007 wrote:

There was no "AA" before FSAA (from 3DFx)

Then how would you explain Verite Quake (VQuake) anti-aliasing?

http://vintage3d.org/images/V1000/vquake2.png Click on the image to see VQuake 2 with maxed AA. […]
Show full quote

vquake2.png
Click on the image to see VQuake 2 with maxed AA.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 6 of 24, by F2bnp

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Yes, Rendition Verite can do edge antialiasing on VQuake and VQuake2.

I'm also fairly certain some Glide games could use it too. I seem to remember the Tomb Raider 3Dfx patch using it.

Reply 7 of 24, by agent_x007

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Similar topic on beyond3d : LINK
Yes, Verite was first (just barely, since chips were delayed well into 1996 when Voodoo 1 was released).

157143230295.png

Reply 8 of 24, by 386SX

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Basically it existed much before anyone ever talk about full screen antialiasing (in pc games). Even the Riva 128 had it on the drivers tool. I don't understand if it was actually better/faster considering the low power "gpu" (and cpu) existing in those years. And if I remember did even some home console support it?
And by the way was is somehow similar the the FAA of Parhelia?

Reply 9 of 24, by elianda

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Yes the Riva128 already supported it, however in most scenarios it required to have 8 MB VRAM i.e. a Riva128ZX.
I haven't captures of that available though.

Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, Videos. Now with file search
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool

Reply 10 of 24, by Tiger433

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I remember when I was playing first Tomb Raider on 3Dfx Voodoo 3 in DOS i saw Antialiasing in game, and ran very smooth with my Celeron 300 without L2 which I haved that time years ago.

W7 "retro" PC: ASUS P8H77-V, Intel i3 3240, 8 GB DDR3 1333, HD6850, 2 x 500 GB HDD
Retro 98SE PC: MSI MS-6511, AMD Athlon XP 2000+, 512 MB RAM, ATI Rage 128, 80GB HDD
My Youtube channel

Reply 11 of 24, by Scali

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Yea, FSAA in the sense of "full screen anti-aliasing" was often implemented as SSAA, "supersampling anti-aliasing".
Which could basically be implemented as a driver-feature or engine-feature on any videocard that supported render-to-texture.
You'd just create a texture that is 2x or 4x the size of the screen, then render to that. After that, you put that texture on a quad, render it to screen, and adjust the texture coordinates so that the bilinear filter samples exactly halfway each 2 pixels horizontally and/or vertically.

A simple bruteforce solution. Main problem was that it required 2x or 4x the fillrate to pull it off.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 12 of 24, by falloutboy

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Here is a 3dfx glide game with Edge Anti Aliasing support. I have made some screenshots a while ago.
Nascar Racing 3 (not the maximum details were set because of the slow CPU)
on Voodoo3 1024x768

In this game:
When Edge-AA is off, some annoying edges still get anti aliasing (look at the fence).
When Edge-AA is on, some less annoying edges won't be anti aliased.

Screenshots best viewed in fullscreen mode.

Edge-AA is off.

The attachment NascarRacing3-3dfx-Edge-AA_02.png is no longer available

Edge-AA is on.

The attachment NascarRacing3-3dfx-Edge-AA_01.png is no longer available

Edge-AA is on.

The attachment NascarRacing3-3dfx-Edge-AA_03.png is no longer available

Reply 13 of 24, by 386SX

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Impressive if we consider that was a feature quiet older than the SSAA. It remembers me the FAA of the Parhelia that if I remember correctly was great but sometimes was off in some places.

Reply 15 of 24, by Scali

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
386SX wrote:

Impressive if we consider that was a feature quiet older than the SSAA. It remembers me the FAA of the Parhelia that if I remember correctly was great but sometimes was off in some places.

Parhelia's FAA was an early form of MSAA I believe.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 16 of 24, by 386SX

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Scali wrote:
386SX wrote:

Impressive if we consider that was a feature quiet older than the SSAA. It remembers me the FAA of the Parhelia that if I remember correctly was great but sometimes was off in some places.

Parhelia's FAA was an early form of MSAA I believe.

But the edge antialising working only in some places and not other, could not be considered a sort of MSAA too?

Reply 17 of 24, by Scali

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
386SX wrote:

But the edge antialising working only in some places and not other, could not be considered a sort of MSAA too?

I don't know how it works in the 3dfx implementation.
MSAA works by rendering the zbuffer at a higher resolution, and using this to detect polygon edges. For 4xMSAA you have 4 z-values for each onscreen pixel. As long as all 4 z-values belong to the same polygon, only a single pixel is shaded. Only when you have multiple polygons inside the 4 z-values, then they will all be shaded, and then downsampled for AA.

http://scalibq.wordpress.com/just-keeping-it- … ro-programming/

Reply 18 of 24, by bjt

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

PlayStation 2 also had hardware support for edge AA. Couldn't tell you how it worked and it tended to create artifacts so I never used it personally.

Reply 19 of 24, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Most of PS2's AA tends to be of the blend-screen-buffer-a-half-texel-few-times sort which isn't really AA though.

apsosig.png
long live PCem