rodimus80 wrote:

It's the Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI. You guys mentioned it earlier in the thread. I'm looking to stream old PCs on twitch with the absolute most faithful picture.

Let us know if you end up getting one. I've got gear from AVerMedia and Elgato and that works well.

I have the previous revision in the StarTech packaging. It does not support some of the more esoteric resolution/refresh combos out there between 50-60Hz, also has no capability of capturing 70Hz (critical for MS-DOS capture via RGB).

Lastly, the new 160 drivers break any RGB capture below 480i completely. Honestly, it looks like the MageWell XI100XE Pro (or its VeloCap equivalent, the TimeLeak HD100P) seems to be the best hope for a comparable price point. Given it has analog bandwidth of up to 175MHz (states capturing up to 1600x1200p60), it looks like it can be the perfect card for DOS capture/streaming.

[Edit] So, apparently the Micomsoft/StarTech capture card I have HAS been able to capture DOS gaming. The problems are that only certain video cards from a DOS/Win9x machine have worked (Trident 9440, S3 Virge DX, and Voodoo3), while others did not GeForce4 MX420 and MX440). The other problem is that after streaming or recording for so long (as I have a lot of demos/games on my Win98 box that frequently switches resolutions), the card stops accepting an image (but my software still recognizes the resolution and refresh received) requiring a reboot.

I tried contacting Magewell for a review sample (as apparently their site is now stating they're starting to recognize the livestreaming community and want to join that market), but wasn't successful. You'd think that having a streamer testing a high-end card for such a market would help get their name out.

With joined efforts of me and 'vetz quality control', who gave feedback with another DVI2PCIe I fixed a few more bugs in my align tool for epiphan cards. You can grab the latest version here ftp://retronn.de/align_tool/VGAGrabber.7z

elianda wrote:

With joined efforts of me and 'vetz quality control', who gave feedback with another DVI2PCIe I fixed a few more bugs in my align tool for epiphan cards. You can grab the latest version here ftp://retronn.de/align_tool/VGAGrabber.7z

That's excellent, thank you!

Elianda, do you or vetz have a Voodoo3? If so, can you try MonArc's TSR for it and check the compatibility with below 31KHz input?

What do you mean exactly?

If you mean the capture card it can capture 15 kHz+.

What is MonArcs TSR? Why Voodoo3? What for?

MonArc was a series of special TSRs for the Voodoo3, Trident Blade, and Matrox Gx00 series in DOS. They were meant to make DOS more usable on arcade monitors.

I just needed confirmation as to whether or not that card truly was able to capture the full range from 15KHz-31KHz. Makes me wonder now if any cards based on thr ADV7441A work similarly.

Is 70Hz critical for MS-DOS capture? Not in all instances. For anything below MCGA/VGA, of course it is not because those adapters use 60Hz or even 50Hz. For 640x480x16 Mode 12h VGA, it is not because that uses 60Hz. Most SVGA resolutions used 60Hz.

So really we are concentrating here on 320x200x256 Mode 13h and the various Mode-X modes. I am not persuaded that you have to sync onto the monitor's refresh rate to avoid losing frames and effects in most cases, at least if you can capture at 60fps. Few DOS games push or maintain the frame rate that high during gameplay. DOOM maxes out at 35fps, presumably to avoid screen tearing with a 70Hz refresh rate. The only games I have found that push 70fps by design are Pinball Dreams I & II, which you are better off capturing on an Amiga anyway 😜

True, but also bear in mind the Trident/Philips SAA7160 doesn't really seem geared towards capturing ModeX or Mode13h. Few cards work with a direct connection, and using an Extron interface seems to prevent the card from displaying a signal. When I can get an image for a game or demo, there is a lot of horizontal banding (similar to my Model 2 Sega Saturn via RGB if the sync isn't boosted).

I have not tested with monarc, but if its just about 15 kHz capturing, here is some footage from Amiga:
http://retronn.de/ftp/videos/amiga_rink_a_din … redux_lemon.mkv
http://retronn.de/ftp/videos/amiga_rink_a_din … p_prescaled.mkv (upscaled for viewing at 1080p)
http://retronn.de/ftp/videos/amiga_desert_dream_A600.mkv
Amiga puts out the signal at 15 kHz.

Many thanks, man. This puts me at ease at least for the Epiphan card. I'm pretty sure that the cards that use the slightly lower-end ADV7441A (but those also have component, composite, and s-video input support) will function just as well.

Hey, my VGA capture solution is with an Etekcity VGA to HDMI upscaler with an Elgato Game Capture HD, but it doesn't show the bios or boot, just the XP boot screen and everything else. Also, 640x480 is cut off, and I believe 800x600 makes it crap out. Does anyone have an inexpensive upscaler that records bios and stuff?

I also tried another upscaler, something from ViewHD, but its just awful. It's a really dark picture and it's kinda blurry.

Since this thread is back up here, I have another thing to ask. What's the ideal solution for a simple digital DVI to USB or PCIe capture with no need for analog audio or video features? It just has to take the weird DOS display modes (the card doesn't scale output), which none of these console gamer products mention.

Currently I'm using Startech USB3HDCAP and Micomsoft XPC-4. Lack of translation in XPC-4 firmware makes things somewhat challenging to navigate but its picture quality is really great and its scaler tries best to keep pixels without turning them into blurry mess. It comes with seemingly quite thick and detailed manual but naturally it is entirely in japaneese. Still digging through various options and controls the device offers and there's a lot to play with. I can simply play games in OBS preview screen without lag and record them too while at it. Granted I keep having to reset XPC and USB3HDCAP settings from time to time as I sometimes end up messing up configurations and there's no input anymore 😀

Previously I had used VGA2HDMIPRO but didn't like picture quality much. Besides with latest drivers to USB3HDCAP it kinda became somewhat less useful since USB3HDCAP now has own scaler option in drivers and while it's nowhere good as XPC-4 it works at least.

Anyone with Voodoo 1/2 and VGA capture want to try

SST_VIDEO_FILTER_THRESHOLD
SSTV2_VIDEO_FILTER_THRESHOLD

and set those environment vars to 0xffffff, 0x180c18, 65535 and 0, and see if they make any visual differences?

😀 😀 😀 😐 🙁

Hey guys,

I've been wanting to capture some footage on a few older games ranging from: 320x200, 320x240, 640x480 and 800x600. Not all VGA capture devices respond well with older resolutions and I was wondering if someone has found one that is tried and tested to hit most of those.

Phil mentioned he uses the AVerMedia C127 Game Broadcaster HD, however those are discontinued and not available on amazon or newegg anymore, and the suggested 'replacements' from avermedia (C985, C727) lack VGA because avermedia lost their brain and thinks nobody uses VGA anymore.

leileilol wrote:

Anyone with Voodoo 1/2 and VGA capture want to try […]
Show full quote

Anyone with Voodoo 1/2 and VGA capture want to try

SST_VIDEO_FILTER_THRESHOLD
SSTV2_VIDEO_FILTER_THRESHOLD

and set those environment vars to 0xffffff, 0x180c18, 65535 and 0, and see if they make any visual differences?

😀 😀 😀 😐 🙁

I could give that a test whenever I can find a good solution for VGA capture.

Hi Raymangold, what are your target resolutions and fps requirements?

I use the combination of a StarTech PCIe HD Video Capture Card [PEXHDCAP] for capturing Windows 98/Games etc. (4:3 and 16:9 640x480 ~ 1600x1024/1920x1080 at 30/60 fps) and a Datapath VisionRGB-Pro [DGC103C] for older DOS VGA/EGA resolutions etc. capture at 15/30fps. It can be a bit of a faff cable swapping and not everyone has the room or support for a PCIe (mini slot) and a legacy PCI card in the same machine.

As for recording software I use OBS (Open Broadcaster Software) to capture h.264 or DScaler if i need RAW footage from the Datapath card (, drivers are for x64 windows but are quite mischievous and don't always behave so DScaler bypasses the problem).

Hope this info helps. As for an all-in-one solution the Avermedia Game broadcaster HD+ seems to be the way to go if you can find one.

W.

//LINKS
http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/ - DScaler 4
https://obsproject.com/ - Open Broadcaster Software
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q47Q_ZRQYCg - Example of Voodoo 3 300 capture using the StarTech PCIe Capture Card (VGA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKU0M8835tw - Victor Bart's (RETRO Machines) setup video using the same Avermedia Game broadcaster as Phil.

Whiskey wrote:

Hi Raymangold, what are your target resolutions and fps requirements? […]
Show full quote

Hi Raymangold, what are your target resolutions and fps requirements?

I use the combination of a StarTech PCIe HD Video Capture Card [PEXHDCAP] for capturing Windows 98/Games etc. (4:3 and 16:9 640x480 ~ 1600x1024/1920x1080 at 30/60 fps) and a Datapath VisionRGB-Pro [DGC103C] for older DOS VGA/EGA resolutions etc. capture at 15/30fps. It can be a bit of a faff cable swapping and not everyone has the room or support for a PCIe (mini slot) and a legacy PCI card in the same machine.

As for recording software I use OBS (Open Broadcaster Software) to capture h.264 or DScaler if i need RAW footage from the Datapath card (, drivers are for x64 windows but are quite mischievous and don't always behave so DScaler bypasses the problem).

Hope this info helps. As for an all-in-one solution the Avermedia Game broadcaster HD+ seems to be the way to go if you can find one.

W.

//LINKS
http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/ - DScaler 4
https://obsproject.com/ - Open Broadcaster Software
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q47Q_ZRQYCg - Example of Voodoo 3 300 capture using the StarTech PCIe Capture Card (VGA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKU0M8835tw - Victor Bart's (RETRO Machines) setup video using the same Avermedia Game broadcaster as Phil.

I actually have one of those non-reference Voodoo2 cards with S-Video and a DVI-clad PCI 5500 (forgot about them because... I don't use them often). So it may be more pertinent to see if I can juggle 3dfx games across those two interfaces as the dumb avermedia or other capture cards always seem to support DVI* and S-Video. The only problem with S-Video is that it would result in a picture quality reduction. How much would the quality reduction be fore something low as 640x480? I'm not sure. What is interesting is that should allow lower-than-648x480 resolutions on an avermedia device; of course you'd be restricted to a 3dfx card with S-Video which are probably not too common anymore; I don't know since I bought it years ago.

*The big question is which resolutions are supported on DVI capturing on certain cards; surely 640x480 would be. You know... I might just go with the DVI route since it's probably a better idea than capturing VGA when I don't need to in the first place.

Would you be able to elaborate more on the Avermedia Game broadcaster HD+ being an all-in-one solution versus the PEXHDCAP? I don't think the Avermedia could be considered a complete solution since it's limited at 640x480 as its lowest; and both seem to infer they can capture VGA @ 640x480.

EDIT: Of course with a DVI 5500 I won't get the voodoo2 artifacts leileilol always raves about but maybe at the end of the day convenience is more important.

Ah I was always under the impression that the Avermedia could capture lower res signals which is why it's so popular amongst the retro community.
But now I'm looking at the specs you're certainly right that it's limited to a lowest supported res of 640x480. So I suppose there isn't a all-in-one solution that supports really old resolutions and todays standard 1080p/60, not that I know of anyway.

W.

Whiskey wrote:

Ah I was always under the impression that the Avermedia could capture lower res signals which is why it's so popular amongst the retro community.
But now I'm looking at the specs you're certainly right that it's limited to a lowest supported res of 640x480. So I suppose there isn't a all-in-one solution that supports really old resolutions and todays standard 1080p/60, not that I know of anyway.

W.

Going on startech's website for the PEXHDCAP, they don't seem to have 640x480 as a support resolution mentioned for 'PC' (guessing that means VGA and DVI). Have you actually got 640x480 capture working on that thing? And now I'm wondering if the successor (PEXHDCAP60L) supports 640x480; you'll note that it has more ICs so it presumably has more bandwidth capabilities.

Now I'm kind of curious after looking at the DGC103C. There has to be another analogue to this but with the functionality of both DOS resolutions and standard VGA and XGA resolutions?