I didn't design it, that's just how it is. On older systems triangles were printed onto the PCB pointing to the positive, anyway.

I can't say I've ever built a new PC before(though I'd certainly love to), but I do hate having to deal with some of the many complications.

-Removing the HSF
It's pretty annoying when you have to remove them on Socket 7 or A boards. Not that I've replaced a CPU, but that's not the point.

-Plugging in cables backwards
Installing my recently-acquired SpaceOrb on my legacy PC was a real hassle initially. It wouldn't be detected, suggesting that I buy a COM5 board-but I do have 2 serial ports! Reboot, head for the BIOS, and sure enough, they're disabled. I fix that, reboot, re-install the drivers & SpaceWare, then...it detects COM ports, but not the Orb itself! I eventually traced the problem to the point where the COM ports were connected to the mobo, and re-inserted them backwards. Everything worked fine afterward, but shouldn't everyone be intelligent enough to make it easy to plug in your cables the RIGHT way?

-Re-installing your OS, apps & games
Re-formatting is annoying. Now you have to spend time reinstalling your OS again instead of fragging. At least you remove any adware crap or the like, giving a performance boost.

HSF? Does that stand for Heatsink-Fan?

HunterZ wrote:

HSF? Does that stand for Heatsink-Fan?

That's right...at least to my knowledge & that of many others.

NamelessPlayer all of your gripes have been addressed. Anything that attaches to the board via cable is keyed now. Firewire, USB, serial, gameport, audio, all keyed. Heatsinks are connected via clips that no longer require use of a screwdriver (stock; custom/aftermarket HSF sometimes require screwdrivers, but in the case of all Athlon64 HSFs I've seen it's a PHILIPS screwdriver that tightens screws that are attached to springs).

My complaint in regards to that stuff is that motherboard manufacturers need to agree on standard pin assignments for things like port bracket pin headers (serial/parallel/USB/joystick/whatever) so that you don't have to hunt down some obscure one when they don't include it with the mobo. I ended up buying a USB gamepad and a USB MIDI adapter because I couldn't get any of the gameport brackets I have to work with my new mobo. I could have cut'n'spliced one to work, but they were actually my roommate's and he wasn't too keen on the idea.

Currently: getting the bloody soundcard to work in DOS 😒

Targaff wrote:

Currently: getting the bloody soundcard to work in DOS 😒

Hmm, never heard of that card. Is Bloddy better than Creative??

😁 😁 😁 😁

Here's a favourite:
Figuring out how the new removable hard drive bay goes back in, because it was designed without having any other hardware in the cheap case you bought to keep costs down.

How about:
CABLE MANAGEMENT!!!! If I fold this one here, and put a zip tie around those, I can almost get this cable around the bundled IDE cables to reach the connector which OBVIOUSLY should have been placed an inch closer. I want Airflow dammit!

Then there's:
Heatsink (Already mentioned). Thermal compound ready. Right direction, no problem. No metal on plastic - good. hook this end on, and apply screwdriver... This is taking a lot more pressure than I like to use. Please don't slip. Please Don'tslip, Ohgawdpleasedontslippleasedontslippleasedontslippleasedo...OH SH- oh, wait... It's on. Phew.

then there's:
Manually wiring a USB port. They've got all these little pin connectors for each wire, you'd think it'd make them easier to grab on to and put in place... And this bracket CAME with the Motherboard??

and of course:
The dreaded driver install. Hrm... the driver for your motherboard needs directX 9.0c to install. I need to get online to grab that... To get online, I need to get my network card up and running, which is built onboard to my motherboard, which needs DirectX 9.0c.... Why do I need 9.0c? Oh yeah, because the onboard sound card needs it for it's pretty interface.... But I'm using a SB Audigy 500ZYXW... Can't I just install the sound card part later? nope? Well, ok, then... Lets just try the video card... Look, it needs DirectX 9.0c to install... how nice... And it's not even on the disk... Didn't the new game I bought have DirectX 9.0c on it? oh yes, here it is. Install the game. Oh, the game won't install because it runs a video card autodetect, and "Generic VGA Controller" isn't good enough? We'll just see about that... Where's the damn DirectX installer....*grumblegrumblegrumble* next time I'm buying a dell *grumblegrumblegrumble*

Norton Ghost does wonders for a format and reinstall. However you are right, the initial install is a pain in the arse...

NamelessPlayer wrote:

-Re-installing your OS, apps & games
Re-formatting is annoying. Now you have to spend time reinstalling your OS again instead of fragging. At least you remove any adware crap or the like, giving a performance boost.

Allow me to be an ass.

FingerSoup wrote:

Here's a favourite:
Figuring out how the new removable hard drive bay goes back in, because it was designed without having any other hardware in the cheap case you bought to keep costs down.

Don't skimp on a case. Never use a power supply that comes with a case (unless the case is an Antec). DON'T SKIMP ON THE F!@#$ING CASE.

How about:
CABLE MANAGEMENT!!!! If I fold this one here, and put a zip tie around those, I can almost get this cable around the bundled IDE cables to reach the connector which OBVIOUSLY should have been placed an inch closer. I want Airflow dammit!

Fixed. See: SATA.

Then there's:
Heatsink (Already mentioned). Thermal compound ready. Right direction, no problem. No metal on plastic - good. hook this end on, and apply screwdriver... This is taking a lot more pressure than I like to use. Please don't slip. Please Don'tslip, Ohgawdpleasedontslippleasedontslippleasedontslippleasedo...OH SH- oh, wait... It's on. Phew.

Fixed. See: Sockets mPGA478, 754, 939.

then there's:
Manually wiring a USB port. They've got all these little pin connectors for each wire, you'd think it'd make them easier to grab on to and put in place... And this bracket CAME with the Motherboard??

Don't get a shitty motherboard and DON'T SKIMP ON THE CASE. Every motherboard-provided USB bracket I've ever seen is a solid block, and most cases have two blocks.

and of course:
The dreaded driver install. Hrm... the driver for your motherboard needs directX 9.0c to install.

Fixed. See: Service Pack 2.

I need to get online to grab that...

No you don't. free CD! Also, all ASUS driver discs come with DirectX 9.0c on them.

To get online, I need to get my network card up and running, which is built onboard to my motherboard, which needs DirectX 9.0c.... Why do I need 9.0c? Oh yeah, because the onboard sound card needs it for it's pretty interface.... But I'm using a SB Audigy 500ZYXW... Can't I just install the sound card part later? nope? Well, ok, then... Lets just try the video card... Look, it needs DirectX 9.0c to install... how nice... And it's not even on the disk... Didn't the new game I bought have DirectX 9.0c on it? oh yes, here it is. Install the game. Oh, the game won't install because it runs a video card autodetect, and "Generic VGA Controller" isn't good enough? We'll just see about that... Where's the damn DirectX installer....*grumblegrumblegrumble* next time I'm buying a dell *grumblegrumblegrumble*

So that you can have spyware preloaded? Good idea. By the way, I never have seen it where you are unable to go into your Device Manager, select the PCI Ethernet Controller, and point it to the INF files.

Well, speaking from experience in various situations (Upgrading old POS computers to a lesser POS that at least works, Building my own systems, putting together parts that others bought, etc) I can say that all my points are valid complaints regardless of what your issues with them are. It all depends on what you are building, and how "New" your new system is. I've hacked together parts from several crappy 486's in order to make a "New" Pentium system that fit every need of the nonprofit organization that owned the parts... Cost of the computer to the organization? Free. Benefits? the computer is invaluable to the organization. It serves as a smoothwall router to get all their other donated computers on the internet. New is a relative term.

Building a new system doesn't mean buying the best system money can buy, or buying the most recent parts... IDE isn't dead yet, and there are still people who can't fill a 10GB hard drive, let alone the 40GB hard drive that most stores are no longer carrying... Cost vs. need must always be balanced in building a system... Where I skimp, may be better for me than where you skimp. We can't all afford Antec. However, having said that, I'm not buying any more $30 CDN cases PSU included. They're a pain to work with. And if you get a generic PSU, make sure it's got at least 100 Watts more than you need - Most generic PSU's are built SAFE, but are horribly underpowered...

The case thing is a lesson learned... As well, SATA is more expensive, but you are right - the cables are much nicer to work with. If you aren't using XP, or a modern Linux though, SATA can be interesting to get drivers installed, if you've never done it before...

Usually it's the bundled accessories with a with a decent (Midrange) mobo that have a tendency to suck. "Add the cheapest connectors to add value. The part may be a pain to install, but it's there and it's 'free', so it's added value..." is what the company thinks when including cheap parts. To be honest I've only had the USB wiring thing happen once, 2 years ago, helping a friend out putting together the parts that he bought... It was a pain in the arse. Think wiring your switches and LEDs * 10.

The driver thing is a bit of an exaggeration... It usually stems from me making my own Driver CD before wiping a system clean and installing a new Operating system on a system where the owner can't find their driver disks. but Motherboard drivers should NOT need DirectX 9.0c for initial install... Also, as much as I like the convenience of Unified driver Packages, a la NForce, it's a pain in the arse to install just network card drivers to download something you need for the rest of the card, because you missed the fine print. Besides, not everyone uses Windows... Linux, up until Kernel 2.6.3 or 2.6.5 (Can't remember which) was a pain to get networking up and running with NForce chipsets... if you didn't download the unified driver package before, you'd be screwed. The driver dependancy runaround is still very much a problem for some. And yes, you can order free CD's for many drivers, or it comes on your disk that comes with the card, but sometimes just getting the install order right can be a bit of a pain...

IMHO, Asus is slipping - you pay for a name brand which is just as good as the competitor. ASUS is the "GAP" of computer hardware... Overpriced for a name brand, is still overpriced. I'll go with a Soltek or MSI before paying more for the ASUS equivalent.

Just as Dell has slipped... They used to build a good system, and had great customer service. However, they're still a viable option for people who don't know how to build a system, or don't want to fiddle with hardware... and they're better quality than Gateway/E-Machines, and They're easier to manouvre inside than a Compaq/HP system. NEVER BUY COMPAQ UNLESS IT'S AN iPAQ....they're evil bastardized proprietary systems that need special Compaq parts. Dell's also proprietary, I know, but their parts are a pleasure to work with compared to Compaq. I mean, WHO puts a Power supply dead center in the middle of a case, over the motherboard??? Compaq, that's who... Try fitting a PCI card into the slots. You can't... Dell is the lesser of 3 or 4 evils so to speak...

Snover wrote:

Allow me to be an ass.

Denied.

Haha, that post was much more rational and much less rant-esque. 😉

At my job, when we build systems, we actually use Lite-on cases, which are very nice to work with and are reasonably priced and come with good power supplies (used to be Sparkle, now are some slightly lesser brand whose name escapes me but still work well). When I get a case for myself, I get a Lian-Li. As far as why chipset drivers require DirectX 9.0 (do they really require revision C?), I don't know, but I imagine that it has to do with the number of changes and enhancements that occurred between DX8 and DX9 in many of the DX subsystems, not just video. Of course, we'll never know because nVidia has f!#@$ing TERRIBLE changelogs (read: non-existant), but that's another gripe in a somewhat different arena.
I agree that trying to install NVRAID on Linux is a pain in the arse, and actually had an instance where I gave up and just used a Silicon Image controller instead 😀 I also painfully agree after my experiences with the nForce4 board I have now that ASUS is not doing as well as they should be. DFI looks like a promising manufacturer of high-end boards, but I would never buy another MSI board after the things I've seen and experienced coming out of their plants. Same thing with Biostar and Giga-Byte.

eMachines quality does suck, though apparently they're trying to improve a bit with their latest models. (I don't have firsthand experience to validate this claim, however.) Gateway still uses MSI boards. (:)) HPQ now is using basically ATX-standard designs, though with slightly larger power supplies with 9cm fans (this is IMO superior to ATX, although new ATX Sparkle PSUs use a large 12cm thermistor-controlled fan mounted on the bottom of the power supply with a nice mesh grille on the entire back of the supply -- I thought this was quite clever). Dell is moving further away from standards with their latest systems, which are non-ATX form factors with propietary power supplies and laptop CD drives (in addition to the propietary mainboards which are 'de facto' for non-white box builders).

AFAIK, DirectX 9.0 should access the driver, not the other way around. DirectX is an API. The drivers should contain the hooks for DirectX to tie in to, but that should mean having extra unused hooks in the driver, not mandatory tie-ins to something that isn't there out of the box, for most operating system installs. The need for DirectX would only be used for the user interface to the driver, not the driver itself.

I'm assuming it's like the Catalyst Control center that ATI is using... It has a DirectX portion in it so you can apply shaders to entire programs... So you can do an NPR Quake style thing with DirectX programs...

Likewise, NVidia has switched from their "Soundstorm" utility, to a chopped back "NVMixer" program for NForce 1 & 2 Audio... It adds a 5.1 surround Mixdown, which I'm assuming DX9 is used for. It wouldn't let me launch their installer app (Which allows me to select the drivers I want to install) to get DirectX 9 quickly and easily. It actually only needs 9.0b, but it's still a pain. I Had my Splinter Cell Chaos Theory disc handy though... The installer was easy to find... However, I'm sure there's people out there who don't have a spare 9.0 installer handy, and use Windows Update to get their DirectX updates....

And yes my first post was a bit rant-esque, but it was intended to be a fun and jolly rant, ie: "It's funny 'cause it's true"... I was a little suprised at your seemingly bitter response. I've read you to be a little more logical and friendly than it your "Being an ass" post... Glad to see it was just a momentary lapse for both of us. 😀

When you work with end-users all day, your view of everyone else tends to be a bit skewed. 😀

"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

Touché.