games for a crippled pentium

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games for a crippled pentium

Postby emosun » 2017-9-09 @ 20:07

I have a machine which has the 233mhz mmx but unfortunately has no L2 cache at all. This makes for a terrible machine to run almost anything on.

quake for example , in dos mode only runs decently at 300x200. higher res = worse performance becoming pretty much a slideshow. I would ASSUME that has to do with the gpu and not the cpu , however the terrible 2mb integrated gpu performs the same as any other gpu all the way up to 64mb overpowered gpu's. which leads me to believe that the cpu just must not be able to handle it. Even the saving grace voodoo 2 isn't helping at all , and yes the voodoo card works. I gave unreal tournament a try which again is only playable provided I'm at the lowest resolution and there only a single AI opponent. Tried hydro thunder which also is a 5fps slideshow at any setting.

The only game that seemed to work great was "Driver" for pc , with the voodoo2 it works great.

I'm assuming the cpu is just crippled but if anyone has a passmark run of a pentium 233mmx with L2 cache I'd love to see and compare it to mine to see just how cripple mine really is.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby ODwilly » 2017-9-09 @ 21:11

I'd suggest you hunt down a COAST module if your board has a slot or just replace the motherboard. You can still find good socket 7 boards for cheap :) I can tell you from experience that Unreal Tournament ran fine with minimal frame dips at low res with 256mb of ram, a 233mmx and 4mb Rageii before the PSU exploded and killed it a few years ago.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby Ampera » 2017-9-09 @ 21:25

TBH, if you have an MMX of that speed, you really are not doing it justice without an original Voodoo.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby emosun » 2017-9-09 @ 21:31

Ampera wrote:TBH, if you have an MMX of that speed, you really are not doing it justice without an original Voodoo.


no
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby meljor » 2017-9-09 @ 22:00

The 233 mmx does not have l2 cache, only L1 cache. Maybe you mean the motherboard? As that has l2 most of the time (maybe yours has not? I don't know).

Driver can be played on a 3dfx card with a p1-200mhz so yes, your 233mmx with voodoo2 is fine for that game. But Hydro thunder for example i read about system requirements like a p3-500 cpu (minimal) and a 32mb vga.....

So maybe your p1-233mmx is not so crippled but you just try to run games on it that are WAY to heavy.

For Quake try the GlQuake version so it will run on the voodoo, makes a HUGE difference in performance compared to software mode.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby Ampera » 2017-9-09 @ 22:12

emosun wrote:
Ampera wrote:TBH, if you have an MMX of that speed, you really are not doing it justice without an original Voodoo.


no



Why not
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby leileilol » 2017-9-09 @ 23:29

A Pentium without L2 is a worse experience than a 486/5x86 without L2. A 3dfx Voodoo is not a band aid(tm) for this situation.

You still have the huge world of 2D dos games out there to play at least :)
Voodoo2s aren't 100mhz stock
Geforce256 isn't released as a beta on New Years '99 under the Quadro brand
DOS gaming isn't a bilinear 320x200 16:10
DOS PCs aren't better than the Macintosh
DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
SGL != Glide
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-9-10 @ 04:38

Even as a slowdown machine, L2 is very helpful for providing additional speed steps. Ideally, either get some, or get a K6-x+ with integrated L2.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby emosun » 2017-9-10 @ 08:29

gdjacobs wrote: Ideally, either get some, or get a K6-x+ with integrated L2.


:confused:
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby Imperious » 2017-9-10 @ 11:32

Please help us out a bit more, either upload a photo of Your motherboard or at least give us the Brand and model number.

You can get a cache coast module here http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/512KB-Cache- ... XQMmJRLqE8

Some socket 7 motherboards had no cache unless a coast module was fitted, maybe yours is like that.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby clueless1 » 2017-9-10 @ 13:10

My P200MMX system has no L2 and it plays most demanding DOS games just fine. The motherboard L2 makes very little difference, typically about 5% if I remember correctly. And Quake in 640x480 needs lots of help in order to run smoothly. It needs at least a Pentium II and MTRRLFBE, or a Voodoo/Voodoo II. Even a fast Pentium III at 933Mhz without Voodoo or MTRRLFBE will run Quake 640x480 at about 20-28 fps, depending on graphics card.

Links in my signature lead to benchmark results that back this up.
The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby cj_reha » 2017-9-10 @ 14:41

emosun wrote:
gdjacobs wrote: Ideally, either get some, or get a K6-x+ with integrated L2.


:confused:


I think he is saying if the board is one that requires a COAST module get that, or get a K6-x processor that has L2 cache in the chip. Of course you really haven't given motherboard info at all so we can't tell if it would support that.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-9-10 @ 17:28

cj_reha wrote:
emosun wrote:
gdjacobs wrote: Ideally, either get some, or get a K6-x+ with integrated L2.


:confused:


I think he is saying if the board is one that requires a COAST module get that, or get a K6-x processor that has L2 cache in the chip. Of course you really haven't given motherboard info at all so we can't tell if it would support that.


Yes, and yes. I was making an educated guess based on the vintage of his current CPU.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby emosun » 2017-9-11 @ 08:18

gdjacobs wrote:
cj_reha wrote:I think he is saying if the board is one that requires a COAST module get that, or get a K6-x processor that has L2 cache in the chip. Of course you really haven't given motherboard info at all so we can't tell if it would support that.


Yes, and yes. I was making an educated guess based on the vintage of his current CPU.


I don't think my board will support a k6 3.

It does support the k6-2 450 with a 2x multiplier. Course it's being overvolted the whole time at 2.8v and the bios can't identify it and just lists it as a 66mhz "cpu". I don't think it's running at 450mhz more likely running at 200 or maybe a bit higher , but it is faster than the 233 mmx when I benchmark it but not by much. and no the board doesn't have a coast module or empty cache sockets. it's got empty solder points where I assume cache chips would have gone if it was a more pricey board.

clueless1 wrote:My P200MMX system has no L2 and it plays most demanding DOS games just fine. The motherboard L2 makes very little difference, typically about 5% if I remember correctly. And Quake in 640x480 needs lots of help in order to run smoothly. It needs at least a Pentium II and MTRRLFBE, or a Voodoo/Voodoo II. Even a fast Pentium III at 933Mhz without Voodoo or MTRRLFBE will run Quake 640x480 at about 20-28 fps, depending on graphics card.

Links in my signature lead to benchmark results that back this up.


well as i said I did try my voodoo2 and some much more powerful card than the voodoo2 and it didn't seem to help so I assume I'm just hitting a cpu wall.

with that being said what games SHOULD play well on this cpu? by that I mean , what games can I test to make sure the machine isn't simply broken in some way?

also if someone could try a passmark run of their 233mmx that would help A TON as I have my own passmark results I can compare it to.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-9-11 @ 08:50

emosun wrote:
gdjacobs wrote:
cj_reha wrote:I think he is saying if the board is one that requires a COAST module get that, or get a K6-x processor that has L2 cache in the chip. Of course you really haven't given motherboard info at all so we can't tell if it would support that.


Yes, and yes. I was making an educated guess based on the vintage of his current CPU.


I don't think my board will support a k6 3.

It does support the k6-2 450 with a 2x multiplier. Course it's being overvolted the whole time at 2.8v and the bios can't identify it and just lists it as a 66mhz "cpu". I don't think it's running at 450mhz more likely running at 200 or maybe a bit higher , but it is faster than the 233 mmx when I benchmark it but not by much. and no the board doesn't have a coast module or empty cache sockets. it's got empty solder points where I assume cache chips would have gone if it was a more pricey board.


Well, what's the board? There might be undocumented voltage settings and/or patched BIOSes available.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby jheronimus » 2017-9-11 @ 09:54

well as i said I did try my voodoo2 and some much more powerful card than the voodoo2 and it didn't seem to help so I assume I'm just hitting a cpu wall.

with that being said what games SHOULD play well on this cpu? by that I mean , what games can I test to make sure the machine isn't simply broken in some way?

also if someone could try a passmark run of their 233mmx that would help A TON as I have my own passmark results I can compare it to.


My first build was PMMX@233 + S3 Virge and Voodoo 2 combo. 64 megs of RAM, 430TX chipset and 512KB L2 cache. I remember playing both Quake I and Quake 2 on it in Glide — and I think it was in 640x480. Also played Carmageddon 2, Starcraft, Diablo 1, Descent 1 with Glide patch. I think out of this list Starcraft was the only game that gave me less than 30FPS.

Sorry, I've since disassembled that machine and don't have any benchmarks for it, but it really feels like there is something wrong with your motherboard. Like others said, a proper 430TX motherboard shouldn't be too hard to find.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby emosun » 2017-9-11 @ 09:57

gdjacobs wrote:
Well, what's the board? There might be undocumented voltage settings and/or patched BIOSes available.


there isn't.

http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/810.htm

Thats why I didn't ask what cpu's I could upgrade to and why I've only asked for game ideas and comparable benchmarks for the cpu I have.

I've already tried different cpu's and already have plenty of documentation and knowledge on the board and the the proper jumper diagram that is not listed online for the board.

again , more interested in how someone elses 233mmx runs without l2 and interested in what games they are able to run on it. and a passmark run would be great.
Last edited by emosun on 2017-9-11 @ 09:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby emosun » 2017-9-11 @ 09:59

jheronimus wrote:My first build was PMMX@233 + S3 Virge and Voodoo 2 combo. 64 megs of RAM, 430TX chipset and 512KB L2 cache. I remember playing both Quake I and Quake 2 on it in Glide — and I think it was in 640x480. Also played Carmageddon 2, Starcraft, Diablo 1, Descent 1 with Glide patch. I think out of this list Starcraft was the only game that gave me less than 30FPS.

Sorry, I've since disassembled that machine and don't have any benchmarks for it, but it really feels like there is something wrong with your motherboard. Like others said, a proper 430TX motherboard shouldn't be too hard to find.


did you happen to try it with the l2 cache disabled?
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby jheronimus » 2017-9-11 @ 10:07

emosun wrote:did you happen to try it with the l2 cache disabled?


Nope, that build was for Glide gaming, so it didn't occur to me to try slowing that system down in any way :happy:

http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/mb/810.htm


Yeah, it makes sense now. Looks like you're interested in a particular build, and since this one is a branded Packard Bell machine, changing a mobo isn't an option. I've been in that situation before with a Compaq Presario 433 (486DX2, no L2 cache — doesn't even run Doom properly). Good luck!

again, more interested in how someone elses 233mmx runs without l2 and interested in what games they are able to run on it. and a passmark run would be great.


So, sorry, can't help you with that one.
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Re: games for a crippled pentium

Postby emosun » 2017-9-11 @ 10:14

jheronimus wrote:Looks like you're interested in a particular build, and since this one is a branded Packard Bell machine, changing a mobo isn't an option.


exactly. If i really wanted better performance I could just pull any of the pentium 2 or 3 machines i have off the shelf. More interested in seeing what this specific machine can do. lol

funny enough I have swapped packard bell boards with IBM ones. funny how many people think packard bell boards are a proprietary form factor.
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