Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Titan91 » 2017-11-19 @ 23:07

I have a period correct Pentium II Compaq with Windows 98SE installed. It has an onboard PCI sound chipset that works perfectly, but my goal is to get a Sound Blaster 16 installed and working for DOS and Windows CD-ROM games (if both is possible, according to what I have read it is). I bought a non-PnP SB16 CT1740 from 1993 with a real Yamaha synthesizer chip and no hanging note bug. This card is ISA, which I read is a must for DOS FM sound compatibility. I carefully inspected all the jumpers based on this page and as expected it shipped to me from the previous owner this way, so I didn't need to change any of the jumpers.
http://www.flaterco.com/kb/audio/ISA/index.html.
I installed it in a free ISA slot on my ISA riser board and disabled the onboard sound, which resolved my IRQ 5 conflict in the BIOS.

Now for actually installing it in Windows. Much to my surprise Windows sees it as a Diamond ES1869 AudioDrive but of course produces no sound when adjusting the volume slider. So I downloaded the official Windows 95/98 drivers for this card from Creative's website and ran the DOS installer. After a reboot sound remains nonworking with Windows still seeing the card as an ES1869.

Any suggestions?

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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby cyclone3d » 2017-11-20 @ 04:51

Pics of the card?

You may have to manually install the drivers in Windows 98. It should definitely not be seeing it as an ESS chipset card.

I would also try getting it working in DOS first. You should just need the SET Blaster setting in the AUTOEXEC.BAT and then test some games with it.
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby yawetaG » 2017-11-20 @ 06:49

Before installing new drivers in Windows, you have to remove the old ones via device manager.
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Imperious » 2017-11-20 @ 11:55

One of my SB16's is a CT2740 and was in my KT7-RAID for quite some time. It's non pnp so the OS doesn't pick it up unless you do a manual
search for new hardware. And what YawetaG said, get rid of the old sound drivers by uninstalling/deleting from device manager.
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby AlaricD » 2017-11-20 @ 16:23

The CT1740 is not plug and play. It's most likely still detecting that ESS Audio Drive. If you plug your speakers into the ESS Audio Drive and still get sound, that would explain a few things.

In Device Manager, get the list of the drivers used by the ESS Audio Drive. Then remove the ESS Audio drive entries from the Device Manager, and restart in MS-DOS mode. Once there, go to the folder containing those drivers, and then rename those drivers' extensions (.VXD becomes .DXV, .SYS becomes .YSY, etc), or just move them to a new folder somewhere, so Windows can't reuse them, and then reboot. If you get the "New Hardware Found" message, deliberately install it as an SB16.
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Titan91 » 2017-11-24 @ 23:09

I don't have an ESS card installed, just the CT1740. That's what confused me when I saw Windows install it as a Diamond ESS card. I disabled the onboard PCI sound chipset and I know it's disabled because IRQ 5 is no longer conflicting.

Focusing on getting this working in MS-DOS mode, I followed this guide. Now WAV, FM synthesis, and CD-ROM audio are working from exclusive MS-DOS mode as well as games launched with their own PIF settings from Windows.

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=41865

However, I still can't get Windows 98 SE to install the Windows SB16 drivers from Creative. First I did what was suggested and renamed key driver files used by the "AudioDrive" and "Control Interface" which causes the devices to show up as unrecognized in device manager. I then attempted to install the INF files manually by pointing device manager to C:\SB16. Windows does not find valid drivers. I even right clicked and clicked install on C:\SB16\Winsetup.inf and C:\SB16\WINDRV\Oemsetup.inf with no evidence of anything actually installing. And I did first try C:\SB16\Winsetup.exe but this only installs the mixer program, which complains about Ctccw.dll being missing but it's in the WINDRV directory.

I have the jumpers configured for the below recommended settings and DIAGNOSE.EXE auto detects everything fine and runs the sound tests fine in MS-DOS mode:

IRQ: 5
Base address: 220
MIDI address: 330
Low DMA: 1
High DMA: 5

Edit: Tried another all-in-one installer and it still doesn't work. I really think I screwed up the OS when switching from the onboard sound to the Sound Blaster. Either that or I screwed up the manual driver install wizard by messing with the driver files. I'm just going to wipe and re-install, I have sufficient experience now to figure the rest out. Thanks for the help.
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Imperious » 2017-11-25 @ 10:51

You shouldn't need creative drivers, the ones supplied with Win98 should work fine.
Try manually searching for the SB16
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Titan91 » 2017-11-25 @ 14:32

Imperious wrote:You shouldn't need creative drivers, the ones supplied with Win98 should work fine.
Try manually searching for the SB16

I just tried this. I removed the SB16 and game port controller from device manager and used the Add New Hardware wizard. I selected Creative then Sound Blaster 16 or AWE32. I then got a warning saying the drivers may not be compatible with the hardware so I continued anyway. It found the INF in the Windows folder but not the other files, so it looks like my install of 98SE is definitely not seeing the drivers for this as it should. I pointed it to the drivers I downloaded and it "installed" but after a reboot still no sound and the device shows as a SB16 but with an exclamation icon beside it. Windows is not finding any sound playback or recording devices at all.

So I reinstalled Windows and from the beginning it installs it as a SB16/AWE32 with Microsoft drivers. I then proceeded to update these to the Creative drivers from their site by running the installer from within Windows and verified the Creative drivers are now showing in device manager. I still see this showing up as a second AudioDrive source but I just disabled it.

Now I have a new issue, WAV playback is now showing up in playback devices but I have a lot of trouble getting this to play any sound. I sometimes get "the sound card may be busy" errors and sometimes not. I'm testing by playing system sounds from control panel under sound preferences. However, one time this started working out of the random and sounded great. But once I reboot WAV playback was broken again. CD playback works fine, I haven't tested MIDI playback in Windows.

So I went back to setting up the MS-DOS drivers and PIF settings using Phil's MS-DOS Mode Tutorial, and once again everything running in MS-DOS mode works perfectly. Not a single issue between multiple reboots and running DIAGNOSE.EXE and a game. So the Windows drivers are causing WAV playback to hang. If I open the Windows mixer the graph for WAV playback is stuck, sometimes I get some odd cut off sounds, others I get pops. The startup sound never plays, so it's not something I'm doing after it boots.

I know with non-PnP cards it's common to manually select drivers from device manager. Do I need to try this even through the drivers installed fine?
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Imperious » 2017-11-26 @ 01:52

I'll give a better description of how this worked for me.

My motherboard has no onboard sound, so no problems associated with disabling that. If I installed Win98se with the soundcard
inserted then it would pick it up and install drivers. If I put the soundcard in afterwards then the OS does not pick it up so You have
to do a manual search for NON pnp hardware, that should pick up the card as being there, then installing drivers should not be a
problem.
I wonder If You have the correct creative drivers as this card does come from about 1993.

Make sure Windows is using the same resources as Dos, if not then manually adjust it. Mine always used Dma 1 and 5, IRQ 5, address 220.
Make sure there are no resource conflicts.
Abit KT7-RAID,Athlon XP-M Barton@450-2400,512mb Sdram,Quadro FX3000,Voodoo1,Vortex 2 and SB16 CT2740,Win98
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Titan91 » 2017-12-02 @ 00:56

Windows is detecting the correct resources ( I checked everything under the resources tab). I'll try uninstalling the card in device manager and attempt with the newer Microsoft drivers from 1999. I also searched for 1740 specific drivers and didn't find any. Otherwise I guess I'll re-enable the onboard sound, set it to a different IRQ, and just use the SB16 for DOS mode. Windows works fine with the onboard PCI sound chipset and the SB works fine in DOS (which is the main reason for me buying this card anyway but I hoped it would work fine is both OSes).

So after uninstalling this, rebooting, and running a manual non-PnP hardware scan Windows found the SB and MPU-401 MIDI chip now using the newer Microsoft drivers from the Win98SE CD. I didn't see the MPU-401 listed before, so that's something. But now it's listing both devices as using IRQ 5 and a conflict under device properties. Should I change the MPU-401 device to a separate IRQ?

Edit: Found out this is for the external MIDI port, which I don't use. Can I just open the MPUEN jumper and it will no longer show up?

viewtopic.php?t=23916
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Imperious » 2017-12-03 @ 13:48

Try both solutions. Move the IRQ and if all good afterwards then no point disabling it via the jumper. If that doesn't work try the jumper.
Abit KT7-RAID,Athlon XP-M Barton@450-2400,512mb Sdram,Quadro FX3000,Voodoo1,Vortex 2 and SB16 CT2740,Win98
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Titan91 » 2017-12-03 @ 23:25

So I moved the IRQ, rebooted, error is gone. But the SB16 with the Microsoft drivers still has the below error. I also tried toggling the joystick port jumper, with no change. I also tried searching again on the Windows 98 CD, and got the expected message saying the best driver is already installed. Is it possible BOTH the Creative and Microsoft Win98 drivers for this card just suck?

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2.png (10.26 KiB) Viewed 381 times


Edit: Ok, just found this. Went back to the Creative drivers and now the card is half working again.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... nformation

Here's my system.ini file, which looks nothing like Creative suggests. So I'm fixing this up next.

Code: Select all
[boot]
oemfonts.fon=vgaoem.fon
shell=Explorer.exe
system.drv=system.drv
drivers=mmsystem.dll power.drv
user.exe=user.exe
gdi.exe=gdi.exe
sound.drv=mmsound.drv
dibeng.drv=dibeng.dll
comm.drv=comm.drv
mouse.drv=mouse.drv
keyboard.drv=keyboard.drv
*DisplayFallback=0
fonts.fon=vgasys.fon
fixedfon.fon=vgafix.fon
386Grabber=vgafull.3gr
display.drv=pnpdrvr.drv

[keyboard]
keyboard.dll=
oemansi.bin=
subtype=
type=4

[boot.description]
system.drv=Standard PC
keyboard.typ=Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
mouse.drv=Standard mouse
aspect=100,96,96
display.drv=ATI 3D Rage Pro (atir3)

[386Enh]
ebios=*ebios
woafont=dosapp.fon
mouse=*vmouse, msmouse.vxd
device=*dynapage
device=*vcd
device=*vpd
device=*int13
device=*enable
keyboard=*vkd
display=*vdd,*vflatd

[drivers32]
msacm.lhacm=lhacm.acm
VIDC.VDOM=vdowave.drv
MSACM.imaadpcm=imaadp32.acm
MSACM.msadpcm=msadp32.acm
MSACM.msgsm610=msgsm32.acm
msacm.msg711=msg711.acm
MSACM.trspch=tssoft32.acm
vidc.CVID=iccvid.dll
VIDC.IV31=ir32_32.dll
VIDC.IV32=ir32_32.dll
vidc.MSVC=msvidc32.dll
VIDC.MRLE=msrle32.dll
msacm.msg723=msg723.acm
vidc.M263=msh263.drv
vidc.M261=msh261.drv
VIDC.IV50=ir50_32.dll
msacm.iac2=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IAC25_32.AX

[NonWindowsApp]
TTInitialSizes=4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 20 22

[power.drv]

[drivers]
wavemapper=*.drv
MSACM.imaadpcm=*.acm
MSACM.msadpcm=*.acm
midi=mmsystem.dll
wave=mmsystem.dll

[iccvid.drv]

[mciseq.drv]

[mci]
cdaudio=mcicda.drv
sequencer=mciseq.drv
waveaudio=mciwave.drv
avivideo=mciavi.drv
videodisc=mcipionr.drv
vcr=mcivisca.drv
MPEGVideo=mciqtz.drv

[vcache]

[MSNP32]

[Password Lists]
USER=C:\WINDOWS\USER.PWL

[TTFontDimenCache]
0 4=2 4
0 5=3 5
0 6=4 6
0 7=4 7
0 8=5 8
0 9=5 9
0 10=6 10
0 11=7 11
0 12=7 12
0 13=8 13
0 14=8 14
0 15=9 15
0 16=10 16
0 18=11 18
0 20=12 20
0 22=13 22

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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Titan91 » 2017-12-10 @ 00:05

I added the suggested lines to system.ini, no change. Config.sys and autoexec.bat are blank, does anything need to be in these files when booting to Windows? I checked the environmental variables and BLASTER is present and correct, but SOUND is not present. The only thing I potentially see wrong with BLASTER is the 330 MIDI address portion is missing. Setting BLASTER using autoexec.bat using the same line from my custom Exit to DOS PIF to the 330 address results in this address still missing after rebooting and running SET within a Windows to check my variables again.
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Re: Installing SB16 in Windows 98SE

Postby Titan91 » 2017-12-15 @ 19:02

So I watched a lot more YouTube videos and did more research on Windows compatibility and bought a SB AWE64. Not the gold version, I have no use for RCA jacks. I considered the AWE32 but that card is huge and DOS basically sees this card as an AWE32 anyway. But yeah, this one has excellent Windows compatibility with proper setup CDs from Creative and there are guides to getting it working in DOS as well. Seems people trying to cover the whole decade run both Windows and DOS mode with this card.

This thread can be closed.
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