VOGONS


MT-32 vs Adlib/Soundblaster

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First post, by vasyl

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Just out of curiosity: if you want to show how good MT-32 can be against Adlib/SB/SB16, which DOS game would you use? I know that most games sound better on MT-32 (I have MT-32) but which ones show the biggest difference? The answer is subjective but anyway...

Reply 1 of 28, by DosFreak

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Yeah, something I'd like to put on my list. The "best" sound card for each game.

Probably the games with soundtracks that use the most instruments are the ones with the biggest difference.....question is what games are those? Shouldn't be too hard to identify tho. You can find which games use MT32 by searching your DOS directory for the "MT32" and then I guess running each one. (This of course won't get them all, like MI1. Searching for "Roland" and "LAPC" would probably be good too)

Out of my collection Sierra games are probably the common game that everyone has and the biggest # of games that have MT32.

List of games with the MT32 driver:

4D Boxing
Aces over Europe
Altered Destiny
Betrayal at Krondor
Castles 2
Capitalism
Conquests of Camelot
Dungeon Hack
Ecoquest
Elder Scrolls: Arena
Extreme Assault
Eye of the Beholder 3
Fantasy Empires
Gamma Wing
Gateworld
Incredible Machine 2
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
Jagged Alliance
Jagged Alliance Deadly Games
Mario Teaches Typing
Mechwarrior 2
Menzoberranzan
King's Quest 1 New
King's Quest 4
King's Quest 5
King's Quest 6
King's Quest 7
Legend of Kyrandia
Leisure Suit Larry 3
Little Big Adventure
Lord of The Rings Two Towers
Martian Memorandum
Monkey Island 1
Monkey Island 2
Monopoly Deluxe
Mortal Kombat
Police Quest 2
Police Quest 3
Quest for Glory 1 new
Quest For Glory 1
Quest for Glory 2
Quest for Glory 3
Quest for Glory 4
Sam & Max Hit The Road
ShadowCaster
SimCity 2000
Simon the Sorceror 2
Space Quest 1 New
Space Quest 3
Space Quest 4
Space Quest 5
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Terra Nova Strike Force Centauri
Transport Tycoon
Ultima 7
Warlords 2
Wing Commander Academy
XCOM Enemy Unknown

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Reply 2 of 28, by DjLc

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MT32 show his power with sysex and most of Sierra games use them.

Edit:
Look here: http://www.nostalzik.com/rips/
There's 3 tracks from Simon The Sorcerer Adlib (dro file) and mp3 rip from my MT-32. In this game the MT-32 patches aren't tweaked with SysEx, the game use factory default sounds. There is a difference with the tempo speed, wich caused by the adlib emulation.

PS: in order to play *.dro files use winamp with in_adlib.dll (provided with the link above).

Reply 3 of 28, by HunterZ

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LucasArts SCUMM adventure games used the MT-32 extensively as well.

Reply 4 of 28, by HunterZ

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DosFreak: I also noticed that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is on your list, but the DOS version only supports PC Speaker and Adlib as far as I remember. Can you confirm this?

Reply 5 of 28, by DosFreak

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Yeah, I just doublechecked. There's a ROLAND.BIN in the directory and the setup program specifies ROLAND.

The header of ROLAND.BIN specifies the LAPC-1

"Roland LAPC1 Music by Sound Images (c) 1991"

Looks like it doesn't work well with TMNT tho. I only get audio during the intro. In the game I get these errors in the console:

MT32:Rhythm: Attempt to set program "(47) on rhythm is invalid
Rhythm (Clsd HiHat): Set volume to 100"

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Reply 6 of 28, by HunterZ

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I got that error with lots of games when using Munt compiled into DOSBox - I dion't think it's serious.

But are we talking about the same game? This is the one I have: http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/teenage-mut … les/screenshots

The setup program is called MNU.EXE and lets you choose graphics (hercules, CGA, EGA, Tandy) and sound (PC Speaker, Adlib, Tandy 1000). It also doesn't seem to have any .BIN files; instead there are .drv, .sfx. and .vce files for Adlib, PC Speaker, and Tandy.

Reply 7 of 28, by DosFreak

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Hmmm, I don't think it's the same.

Found this info on one of the game screens (it's also in an image file).
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles The Arcade Game
1992 Konami, Inc.

The one you linked to seems to be some weird kind of platform game where the one I have is the PC ver of the arcade ver which I remember playing in.....arcades! 😀

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Reply 8 of 28, by Alkarion

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I know that most games sound better on MT-32 (I have MT-32) but which ones show the biggest difference? The answer is subjective but anyway...

IMHO, Space Quest 3 sounds great with the MT-32 while Adlib support is rather mediocre. Dune (the orignal) is an excellent example for very good Adlib and Roland support.

Wing Commander is another game where I can't decide which version I like most. Of course, with its orchestral soundtrack, the Mt-32 is the first choice, but there are downsides. As the drums of the Roland synth were extraordinarily good, I think composers overemphasized their use a bit. They dominate for instance the briefing where the melody instrument is barely audible. This is something which is more balanced on the Adlib.

Reply 9 of 28, by DjLc

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My favorite MT32 game is Police Quest 3.
The music are composed by Jan Hammer Himself (Miami Vice).
Music AND sfx were played by MT32.

Reply 10 of 28, by Kaminari

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Yeah, Jan Hammer was a strong user of the D-50 and it shows in PQ3.

I have many MT-32 favorites, but for the needs of a demonstration vs AdLib, I'd showcase the one that started it all: King's Quest 4. Great atmospheric intro track by William Goldstein -- without any SysEx.

Reply 11 of 28, by HunterZ

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DosFreak: Ah, I see. The game I'm thinking of is the same as TMNT 1 for the NES, while the game you're thinking of is the same as TMNT 2 for the NES.

Alkarion: Agreed - SQ3 is one of the best-sounding games I've heard on my MT-32. I haven't tried the KQ or PQ games yet though, as I was never as much of a fan of those as I was of SQ and QfG.

Reply 12 of 28, by Alkarion

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Maybe I'm derailing the thread but concerning MT-32 favourites I should add I've posted a link to the Dune 2 Midis here (recorded digital audio available, too). In my opinion, it doesn't get much better than this. (I.e. I think this soundtrack is _the_ best for the MT-32.)

Reply 13 of 28, by HunterZ

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But Dune 2 also supports Sound Canvas MIDI. So should I use my MT-32 or should I use my SC-88? I've actually tried with both and they both sound pretty good, but I usually default to my SC-88 when General MIDI is supported by a game (if only because it has more channels).

Reply 14 of 28, by Alkarion

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Well, see for yourself but take the whole soundtrack into consideration. I never tested it myself since I have no Sound Canvas at hand. How about making some recordings with your SC-88? (You'd have to take other MIDI files, obviously)

At the Queststudios forum there were some discussions about Dune 2, Sound Canvas vs MT-32, and I recall people favoured the MT-32.

Reply 15 of 28, by Kaminari

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As with many (if not all) MIDI soundtracks circa 1992, the music was specifically written for MT-32 and roughly transcripted to GM. Some GM transcriptions fared better than others, but most of them couldn't compare with the original. Dune 2 was definitely written by Klepacki for MT-32.

From 1993 onwards (and the popularization of GM-capable devices), the roles were inverted. Composers started to write exclusively with GM in mind, and rarely bothered doing specific transcriptions for MT-32 -- they just relied on the generic Miles audio system to take care of GM playback on the venerable synth (with often disastrous results).

Reply 16 of 28, by Marauder

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Kaminari wrote:

From 1993 onwards (and the popularization of GM-capable devices), the roles were inverted. Composers started to write exclusively with GM in mind, and rarely bothered doing specific transcriptions for MT-32 -- they just relied on the generic Miles audio system to take care of GM playback on the venerable synth (with often disastrous results).

That's why true dosboxer needs a MT-32 AND SC-55/88 😀

Reply 17 of 28, by vasyl

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The likely answer is "yes." Well, at least with GM you can get reasonable approximation with decent modern Soundblaster.
Getting back to my original question, it looks like I should be looking at Sierra games. It is really fun to watch MT-32 panel while playing Space Quest III -- see the attached image.

Reply 18 of 28, by Alkarion

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I'd like to point out that there's more to MT-32 game music than Sierra. While there was exceptionally good support for the MT-32 by them, other game developers also focused on high quality music. Lucasarts, Origin or Westwood are only a few names which come to mind. Have a listen at Monkey Island 2, Strike Commander or Legend of Kyrandia.

Btw, there is a musical easter egg in Fate of Atlantis. In the room of the God Machine the music is actually a variation on the Shining theme (by none other than the pioneer of synthesizer music, Wendy Carlos). Very fitting, IMHO.

Reply 19 of 28, by vasyl

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Yes, I know. But my question was about games with the biggest difference between the two. Lucasarts games always have great music, Monkey Island 2 is awesome on MT-32 but it is not really that bad on Adlib. It sure is different, and a lot of nuances are lost, and some instruments don't sound like instruments at all. But it's still pretty good. Space Quest III is another story. Adlib/Soundblaster sound is so bad that I would rather prefer to play it without sound. OTOH, MT-32 soundtrack is great, very atmospheric, nice sound effects.
Both games can and should be played on MT-32 but which games must be played on MT-32 (in the sense SQ3 is)?