Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby keropi » 2019-5-16 @ 00:46

yes it's like you glued a soundcard and latest pcmidi together
- if pcmidi part is populated them CS4237 mpu is disabled , pcmidi controls wt header and all midi i/o
- if pcmidi is not present then CS4237 mpu is enabled and controls wt header and midi i/o
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby bjwil1991 » 2019-5-16 @ 00:57

Huh. That is really interesting.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby mattrock1988 » 2019-5-16 @ 02:43

Hi keropi!

I love the new update you've shown here of your sound card. Let me know if you are willing to issue review samples once you have the card fully finalized as well as a complete driver pack. I'd like to do a review of the card for a YouTube channel I'm thinking of starting.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby SirNickity » 2019-5-16 @ 20:21

Hey, just curious -- what's the fascination with SPDIF out in DOS? The way I see it, it's technically not a very good option. Lots of weird sample rates that external SPDIF receivers won't accept without a sample-rate converter on the card. And since the SRCs weren't very good back then, is that really an improvement? Especially when you add analog-in. Now you've got bad SRC and analog noise in your pristine digital output. ;-) May as well just stick to analog out, no?
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Tiido » 2019-5-16 @ 20:33

SRC is the main reason why I think SPDIF is a can of worms. It is not trivial to do decent SRC and especially not when you have to support a wide variety of sample rates.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Marmes » 2019-5-16 @ 22:03

It doesn't have anything to do about convertions. It's about easy of use when you want to record audio. YTubers ,streamers stuff.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby keropi » 2019-5-16 @ 22:06

Well for people that wanted spdif under DOS now there is a card that does that. If you don't want any analog sources mixed then just mute them.
Is this card for everyone or the next sound messiah? nope LOL but I hope some people will like it and use it along with all the limitations and low-quality source material that comes with the DOS gaming world. ... and in the end of the day the analog side of it is as good as we could make it with marmes so you are not limited to spdif-only if the card interests you :)
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby SirNickity » 2019-5-17 @ 17:51

Ah, don't mind me, guys - this is not a criticism for new sound hardware. That's always welcome -- even if just because it's fun to build something. I was just curious what made DOS-era cards with SPDIF I/O so appealing, since all of the methods the original hardware designers would have used at least partially negate the advantages of a 100% digital signal path.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby keropi » 2019-5-17 @ 18:16

no no those were valid concerns and I just replied - I know all that is posted here is with good nature :)
in the end it's all about options... you want spdif? There is a card . You want great YMF card? There is a card. You want a sb1.5 replica? There is one too. You want sb core ported to atmega? Well there is one too! LOL LOL LOL
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby hard1k » 2019-5-17 @ 19:08

What we still need is a One Card to rule them all...
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby keropi » 2019-5-17 @ 21:18

there is no such thing , doubt it will exist anytime soon
"rule all" what does it mean? for me it's a 100% sbpro + midi interface, for the next person it's sb16 and cms and weird obsure format, the next one wants spdif, another person wants 1GB of sample memory... LOL LOL LOL you see where I am going with this

unless someone makes an fpga soundcard that mimics a bazillion formats :lol: but development time would be monstrous not to mention it will go unrewarded compared to the effort spent
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby 640K!enough » 2019-5-17 @ 21:44

keropi wrote:but development time would be monstrous not to mention it will go unrewarded compared to the effort spent

That, I think, is the perfect summary of such an endeavour. You can also bet that someone would still find something to complain about. We have decades of Apple versus PC, GUS versus AWE, etc. as evidence; people like to voice their opinions and complaints and argue about what is "better". I don't think we'll ever change.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Tiido » 2019-5-17 @ 23:53

A card that approaches ultimate for many people is in my todo list lol. The things I'm doing now pave way to it, it is definitely a lot of work...
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby ruthan » 2019-5-18 @ 16:48

For me much bigger deal that some piece of HW, ISA / LPT soundcards, is compatibility and software..

Im not sound expert but integrated Realtek HDs killed majority of external sound cards.. so probably their sound capabilities are good enough, and some Dos media players and Q2DOS are able to make them working in DOS.. so in theory is possible to write some TSR SB / Adlib emulation layer for them, 90% of people have them and they dont need to buy or wait for any new piece of HW.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Tiido » 2019-5-18 @ 19:31

As far as emulation goes I will just whip up DOSBOX or VDMSOUND instead, I don't see a whole lot of point trying to do it in DOS where the point for me is letting hardware do it all.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby 640K!enough » 2019-5-18 @ 20:06

ruthan wrote:Im not sound expert but integrated Realtek HDs killed majority of external sound cards.. so probably their sound capabilities are good enough

Frankly, integrated audio isn't the only thing that "killed" the sound card industry. Creative trying to strong-arm/weasel everyone else out of the market didn't help, then they sat around trying to over-charge for mediocre hardware without innovating. Given that on-board audio was becoming ubiquitous, why would people bother paying Creative prices for hardware that never delivers on its promises?

Nonetheless, I wouldn't necessarily say that the sound capabilities are "good enough". My old UltraSound still produces more pleasant sound than a number of the on-board audio implementations I have. I have never encountered one that didn't have some level of noise in the signal or audibly poor frequency response. It really depends on the manufacturer doing a decent job on the audio section, and they (somewhat justifiably) tend to focus on other aspects of the motherboard.

In that respect, I am in full agreement with Tiido. For real DOS, quality hardware is always the way to go. While emulation and TSRs tend to work sometimes, they are never my preferred solution, so I will read any development/progress reports for such projects with great interest, even though I can't always afford the end product.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby techweenie » 2019-10-09 @ 15:23

So did this new soundcard get it's own thread? I want one!
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