knekt wrote:

Also, if someone could fill me in on what Math CoProcessor I should get (a 387SX 20?) (and why - what it actually does), I'd appreciate it greatly.

It does math. 🤣
As for whether that helps you, I have no idea. You have to be fairly strict with what software you run with this processor, because it is slow. So if it floats your boat go right ahead but it's a, um, cost inefficient upgrade and I have no idea if games experience much help from a coprocessor (likely it depends on the game).

But you get it, it's a boost to a processor whose speed is (except for early IBM software) "none" so...perhaps not playing to the strengths.

I've never had a system that could use a co-processor and the means to acquire one, simultaneously, but if I had a 386 now, I would. Anyway, I recommend a Linksys LNE2000T ISA Ethernet NIC if you can find one (I got two, new-old stock, on ebay for like $10 each a few years back), and maybe a Trident video card? I don't do a whole lot with my 486 anymore, but it's all set to browse the web in a limited fashion, play games, and make stupid stuff in VisualBasic 3. With a 20MHz 386, you can do all of that, but playing DooM may be a bit rough, and you can pretty much forget Duke Nukem 3D. Windows for Workgroups will chug a bit, but that's to be expected.

With PCEm, you can put together a trial system to see how it would work with the configuration you're looking for. I'm currently using it to fake a 166MHz Pentium system with 128MB of RAM, a Soundblaster 16, and some sort of 1MB video card, just to run Windows 95 for the purpose of testing icons I'm making. You have to edit the registry to change the icons for the main system stuff without MS Plus, so a virtual system saved me tens of hours of hassle.

Mister Xiado wrote:

I've never had a system that could use a co-processor and the means to acquire one, simultaneously, but if I had a 386 now, I would. Anyway [...]
With a 20MHz 386, you can do all of that, but playing DooM may be a bit rough, and you can pretty much forget Duke Nukem 3D.

my first PC had a co-processor iirc because my dad also got it for work... who knew it was going to be used mostly for games though 🤣
I got a 3C87-40 from a scrap board I haven't tested yet, but if I would build a 386 just for the fun of it I'd stick it in anyways as well.

also I think Duke Nukem 3D simply doesn't run on 386, I remember having to visit a friend who had a 486 to play it after I bought it because I was still rocking a 386-40 at that time... but I just looked around and apparently there is a recompiled .exe to make it run on 386 ^^

-286/386/486 and Win3.11 are showpiece PCs only. 😊
Pentium 1 onward with Win98se everything is so much nicer maxing out on early years of 2000: like socket A,754 and P3,P4.

I really can't do nothing special with my very slow 386DX-33mhz.
Even Wacky Wheels lags on it.
There are no "exclusive 386 only games". ( I don't play any 1990 wing commander. So I don't understand the hype around it. )

Lots of old games don't run on Pentium 1 and faster machines. People spend lots of time trying to make those slower in order to run older games. The result is never like playing on the correct hardware. Of course, it all depends on which games you want to play.

Some games and their systems are a certain age groups thing.
For example I was born in 1987 and the "dos bound PC games" that I like are from 1993-1999: Doom, Hexen, Blood, Wacky Wheels, One Must Fall, Warcraft 1, Mechwarrior 2, Ignition, KKND, Test Drive Off-road 1, GTA1, NFS 1,2, Screamer 1,2,3, Road Rash, Destruction Derby 1, Fatal Racing, Earthsiege 2, Sega Rally 1... and many many such similar games. ( These don't work in modern WinXP, 7, 10 so I have a Win98se machine for these. GOG.com has made some cool re-makes on games like: Carmageddon, Shadow Warrior, Raptor and such...that work on modern PCs.)

I myself feel very uncomfortable playing very old PC games prior to 1993-94. I stay very, very far away from Atari, Commodore, 80s NEC PC-9800, Amstrad, Magnavox and such antiques. Those games are just too pixelated and simple.

null

Hi again, thanks for the replies!

Perhaps I should explain the usecase for this machine.
Back in the 90's i had an IBM PS/2 of some model, and I think it had a 33mHz DX CPU (but that might have been the 486 one I got later on), and the IBM PS/2 (386) couldn't run Doom at any playable framerate unless I minimized the screensize to minimum, so Duke Nukem 3d and similar games are out of the question in this instance. My P3 450 handles that era of games for me.

I'm fairly certain my Compaq here won't perform as good as the IBM I once had, and compared to my current 486-ish build (K6 2+ 500), a 20mHz CPU probably makes for a Windows 3.11 typewriter at best.
I want this system mainly for pre-Doom DOS-games, especially those whose game-speed is tied to the CPU clockspeed.
It's a nostalgia-thing.
I was thinking Wing Commander, old platformers like Duke Nukem I & II, Cosmos cosmic adventures, Stunts and Street Rod, good old Monkey Island and Wolfenstein 3d etc.
Hence the SB32 card for it's excelent adLib, GM and MT32 emulation capabillities and PC-speaker integration. (But it's a PnP card, anyone has any experience in this area?)

The goal is simply a stellar 386 machine.

I see math coprocessors for around 3-4$ plus shipping on eBay.
Given that I have a socket for one then I'll probably pick one up for less than a subway sandwich just for the sake of having one in there - but the question is; does it matter what clock frequency it has - do I need to get a matching 20mHz one, or can I pick just about any 387SX model?

In terms of graphics cards, I was thinking of a Tseng ET4000AX or an STB Wind/X, or maybe some Cirrus Logic one but I'll add Trident to the list of posssible contenders and keep an eye out.
Hopefully I'll find a benchmark test somewhere..
I don't know how much (or little) a 2D graphics card will do to improve gaming performance, but I'm guesssing since I'm running a 20mHz CPU it would most likely alleviate some limitations. Again, not too familiar with computers from this era.

Also, I'm not too sure how much I'd benefit from having network capabillities on this machine, but if I get two cards, perhaps my K6 2+ 500 could play ball in LAN Gaming sometime.
If the library of network multiplayer games from that era prooves worth it, I might consider it actually. After all, there's always Heroes of Might and Magic I & (maybe) II.

Again, thanks so much for the replies!
Cheers, and have a marvelous weekend!

EDIT: My current keboard sometimes adds extra t's and s's.

"but I'll add Trident"
I have a Trident TVGA8900C 1mb ISA. It is no good but I got it for free when I found the 386DX-33 Mhz.
I have 8mb RAM.

I can confirm that these games work 100% without lagging in the 386DX-33 Mhz
- Stunts, Street Rod, Wolfenstein 3d.( These games are very simple and repetitive and offer a little entertainment as most of the very old DOS games. Like NES games fun for a 15 minutes or so but not much further. 😊 )

These lag: ( Some lag more and some less but noticeable lag is there.)
- Doom(unplayable), Wacky Wheels, Jazz Jackrabbit, BC-racers,... many more...

I think save money and play a "newer" Descent 1(1995),2(1996) instead of wing commanders. 😊
Those "CPU speed tied games" are so few and none is super exciting.
Win98se machine is ultimate and the cheapest solution in the end 286/386/486 are museum pieces and parts cost so much that you don't even dare to use them because you might break something and spare components cost a lot at least on ebay. Locally vintage parts are much cheaper but more rare.

knekt wrote:

I see math coprocessors for around 3-4$ plus shipping on eBay.
Given that I have a socket for one then I'll probably pick one up for less than a subway sandwich just for the sake of having one in there - but the question is; does it matter what clock frequency it has - do I need to get a matching 20mHz one, or can I pick just about any 387SX model?

I read about this and it depends a lot on which hardware is being used with what. Different boards, different 387s, and the processors to which they are paired either can or can't run asynchronously. The Intel ones might be capable, but it also depends on the board. Non Intel 387s can be much faster but lack this ability or have more configuration issues and compatibility issues. The easiest thing to do is select an Intel 387 equal to or greater than 20mHz and it likely will match the bus speed in that system.

But my opinion is unless you're actually doing some kind of math operation in software (games stay away from this to be compatible with many systems; it would be a poor game that could benefit from hardware it couldn't expect to have), very likely, you won't be able to tell the difference between having it and not having it. Just saying.

VOGONS poster "Vaudane" has one of these IIRC. It uses unusual memory expansion cards that aren't compatible with regular IBM PCs.

Wasn't Simcity about the only game that used the Math's Co processor?

I think a SB Pro is slightly better matched to the games, only due to he reversed stereo issue and many of these games don't nativity support a SB16 (which is what the AWE is based off) but the AWE will still work fine and I wouldn't bother spending money in getting a Pro.

What video card do you currently have? DeskPro's were Compaq's Business line so usually had pretty good hardware to begin with.

+1 for network though, any network games is a bouns. It's more for easy transfer of files to and from the PC

So I'm going to go ahead and necro this thread to say hello (would have noticed it sooner but PhD Thesis and whatnot means I don't get much time to actually tinker with 386 currently).

I've got the kit to build you a drop-in replacement for the dallas chip, all you need to do is pop in a CR1220 and it's good to go.

Also since the dallas is probably dead, you'll need to track down the configuration software and a 720k floppy disk to restore all the bios settings. Again, can send software over if needed, the floppy is on you though...

Been reading a few PC Mags from the late 80s, and digging through old half-lost manuals on the 386 compaq lines so I have a good handle on what actually was going on back then.

In terms of games that use the 387 though... I hear SimCity? Never installed it myself so I've never even had a chance to test it...

Any picture of your Mobo? There was a few iterations of design. some which used a large proprietary card which is notoriously difficult to find, some used SIMMs. Early deskpro's also had a VGA daughterboard instead of onboard or via ISA.

SimCity will run fine. This thread has a hell of a lot of games that will run on yours and this system The year is 1990 and you still have a PC/XT and can't upgrade. Which games are you playing? 100s of games will run just fine. Moby Games is a good place to get previews and screen shots.