VOGONS


AWE64 WaveSynth effects?

Topic actions

First post, by AdrianRomero

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I wouldn't know where else to ask this somewhat obsolete question...

I never owned an AWE64, but apparently it had 64 voices, but 32 of them were software voices using the Creative WaveSynth, a version of Seer Systems Sondius WaveGuide synthesizer. Interestingly, the same softsynth used by Yamaha and many others, though perhaps it was a special version for Creative. Does anybody know of any examples of what the Creative WaveSynth voices sound like by themselves? Edit, found this: https://web.archive.org/web/19970606124519/ht … awe64/demo.html

The EMU8000 chip used a completely different synthesis technique and also had hardware reverb and chorus.

How were effects (reverb, chorus) applied to the 32 soft synth voices?

Last edited by AdrianRomero on 2019-11-21, 07:58. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 11, by Tiido

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

The PCM stream can go through EMU8000 side on AWE64 so there isn't any need for software based effects, only mixing.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 2 of 11, by appiah4

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

It's all done on the EMU800, not software.

Reply 3 of 11, by derSammler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
appiah4 wrote:

It's all done on the EMU800, not software.

Not sure what you mean by "all", but that's wrong anyway. That "64 voices" crap was a lie by Creative. The EMU8000 can do 32 voices and that's it. The AWE64 is just a renamed AWE32 with higher integration and all other features added by Windows software.

Reply 4 of 11, by appiah4

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
derSammler wrote:
appiah4 wrote:

It's all done on the EMU800, not software.

Not sure what you mean by "all", but that's wrong anyway. That "64 voices" crap was a lie by Creative. The EMU8000 can do 32 voices and that's it. The AWE64 is just a renamed AWE32 with higher integration and all other features added by Windows software.

By all I meant all the effects.

Reply 5 of 11, by AdrianRomero

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Ok, but the EMU8000 has provisions for individual reverb and chorus send levels for every of the 30 voices. Does that mean the WaveSynth only has global effects send?

Reply 6 of 11, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

AWE64 can also apply reverb/chorus to the integrated CQM FM too. You could crank it up in DOS with AWEUTIL and enjoy Zone66 with super reverb or so

WaveGuide is the software synth stuff to make that "64" marketing point meet. It even functions on AWE32 but creative doesn't want you to know that.

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 7 of 11, by Anonymous Coward

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

What is up with Wavesynth on AWE64? I remember when I tried it out it sounded like complete ass, yet the software synth on the Yamaha sounds great. Was the special version for Creative made extra crappy so that it wouldn't make the EMU8000 look bad?

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 8 of 11, by appiah4

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Anonymous Coward wrote:

What is up with Wavesynth on AWE64? I remember when I tried it out it sounded like complete ass, yet the software synth on the Yamaha sounds great. Was the special version for Creative made extra crappy so that it wouldn't make the EMU8000 look bad?

AWE64 hw synth only uses 512K of samples from ROM so in absence of extra RAM for soundfonts it sounds rather muddy but passable. Nowhere near Yamaha’s 2/4/8 MB sample sets.

Reply 9 of 11, by AdrianRomero

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Yes, it was interesting to see the old Creative promotion stuff for the AWE64 on archive.org. They really went out of their way to show that their own FM and AWE32 synths sound like crap, so surely you need to buy the new AWE64 😀 Their examples are super contrived, like using super short amplitude envelopes on the "wavetable" examples to exaggerate the point on how bad they sound. When in fact the AWE64 examples sound even worse in many cases, especially the DOOM midi.

The WaveSynth (Sondius waveguide) technology does sound pretty good for certain instruments though, certainly better than minimal looped samples, especially the wind instruments and guitars. Too bad this technology didn't become the standard instead of FM and later samples, because it really can add a lot of finesse and dynamics to music. Imagine how different things would have been with demoscene music centered around Yamaha's waveguide XG.

Did anybody ever have a look at a disassembly of the AWE64 drivers? I would be interesting to see how they are using it. The best way would probably be to only use the softsynth voices for "spilling" when you run out of hardware voices, because it is hard to see how they can sound very similar to the hardware with its realtime filters and so on. But if there are already a lot of voices playing, it might not be so noticeable.

Reply 10 of 11, by SirNickity

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
AdrianRomero wrote:

Ok, but the EMU8000 has provisions for individual reverb and chorus send levels for every of the 30 voices. Does that mean the WaveSynth only has global effects send?

I don't know how it DOES do it, but it COULD do it by pre-mixing the reverb / chorus sends into a single channel (or two, if you want stereo effects sends) and having the EMU8k process that.

You don't really need to process effects individually on every single channel. The result is always going to be an effected composite of all the channels calling for that particular effect. I.e., if you want 10% reverb on channel 35, you just multiply the amplitude of channel 35 by 0.1, and send that to the reverb unit, then mix the dry signal with the reverb output. That's how it's done with analog mixers and outboard effects.

Reply 11 of 11, by AdrianRomero

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
SirNickity wrote:

You don't really need to process effects individually on every single channel.

You're right, but then they'd need at least 2 additional mono inputs (or 1 extra stereo) for the EMU8000. Perhaps there is also a way, then, to do the same for the FM synthesis.