VOGONS


Reply 2660 of 2760, by cyclone3d

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Slashzero wrote on 2020-02-09, 00:05:
SpectriaForce wrote on 2020-02-08, 23:51:

Hmm, I would do that if it was easy, but over here the waste facility has quite a lot of personnel walking around and the containers get collected by truck once every 1-3 days.

At work, my cube is right next to the IT/SysEng/Ops guys. I’ve started inquiring about old hardware, and how they dispose of it. It turns out they will be dumping a crap ton of hardware in the coming weeks. Apparently we use a service that rolls up with a truck and loads all the old servers and hardware and disposes it as e-waste. It seems like such a waste, and makes me sad. 🙁

Did you ask if you could have any of it?

I am IT where I work and when I replace old hardware I give it to the employees if they want it. If not, I try to find other people that want it. As a last resort I send stuff to a local thrift store.

The only downside is that I have to wipe the drives but that is no big deal. If the computer still has a drive, I generally wipe it and then install a fresh copy of Windows.

Those dumb e-waste places usually charge for picking up stuff... and then they turn around and resell what they can. The rest gets sent to places that melt it all down to reclaim the metal.

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Reply 2661 of 2760, by Slashzero

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Byrd wrote on 2020-02-09, 01:17:

There are several fuses on the 2400c motherboard which usually results in a "green light of death" on startup. The fact yours boots sans display says it's not the fuse, but possibly failed backlighting (shine a torch at the LCD) or bad/loose cabling. Reseating the LCD cable isn't too bad - you need to pry up the panel above the keyboard, keyboard itself and wrist rest mount. Try to find a 2400c service manual for the steps.

Thanks for the tip. I tore this thing down a few years after I got it, some time in, 2000? I opened it up to upgrade the RAM and install a CPU upgrade. I remember it being a long process, so I will definitely try to find a service manual. Having a service manual when I tore down my Toshiba T4850CT was a requirement, and I don’t remember the 2400C being any easier. If anyone has a link to the service manual, I’d appreciate it.

Anyway, I hooked it up to an external monitor at home. Appears to be working fine on the external port at least. 😀

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-02-09, 02:29:

Those dumb e-waste places usually charge for picking up stuff... and then they turn around and resell what they can. The rest gets sent to places that melt it all down to reclaim the metal.

Yeah, that’s what I figured usually happens. It’s really sad, and frustrating. I’ve asked if they ever give away any of the equipment to the employees, and the response was basically: “if you want to go pick through stuff I won’t tell anyone.”

Last edited by Slashzero on 2020-02-10, 19:18. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2662 of 2760, by chinny22

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Always ask your IT dept! I'm an outsourced IT techie so have it both ways.
Bosses are usually happy to offer hardware to employees, Saves them cosy of disposing if nothing else.
Bit different for me as I'm external but still the answer is rarely no, Worst case they want something that they can send of to get a certificate to say it was disposed of but don't really care what they are sending, 10 PC's are 10 PC's. No one is really concerned with make/model/etc

Reply 2663 of 2760, by Deczor

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Man. I work for a large IT company. They get paid for all the stuff that gets "recycled", so the bins are strictly off-limits since the e-waste outfit pays by the bin load.

I still pinch things from time to time. I'm pretty sure that re-using stuff is more environmentally friendly than melting it down.

Reply 2664 of 2760, by SpectriaForce

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Deczor wrote on 2020-02-10, 21:21:

I'm pretty sure that re-using stuff is more environmentally friendly than melting it down.

I'm not so sure about that, because a new pc can process a lot more data in the same time compared to an old pc (more productivity per KWh) and a new one is more power efficient (a new pc power supply is more efficient). This assumes you use your pc for more than just the occasional word processing, because otherwise you'd be fine with a generic 1990's pc 😉 The recycling process, the mining of new ore and manufacturing of new goods can be quite energy consuming though.

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Reply 2665 of 2760, by yawetaG

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At least most older hardware is usually build to last, completely opposite today's "planned obsolescence" (whether it is by design like a lot of IoT products or by using the cheapest production option possible in terms of quality).

Reply 2666 of 2760, by Unknown_K

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Premium brand workstations and servers have always been built better then commodity hardware of the same period. The only difference is better engineering these days allows you to know what corners you can cut and still make it out of warranty then 30 years ago allowed. The original IBM PC was built with commodity off the shelf parts and was never meant to last forever nor could you pop in a HD without the PS getting overloaded. Corners have always been cut to make more money.

Power supplies have been getting very efficient if you buy a good one, but the cheap commodity ones are not.

All of the hardware out there that is 5+ years old is not as efficient or as fast compared to new hardware today. Recycling 95% of all hardware still leaves enough old junk for collectors to use and is better for the environment then digging up tons of dirt to extract more minerals.

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Reply 2667 of 2760, by dionb

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Unknown_K wrote on 2020-02-11, 07:19:

Premium brand workstations and servers have always been built better then commodity hardware of the same period.

Beg to disagree with that. Certainly, on average they are better built, but 'always' is far from the mark.

Take Sun stuff - very premium and a deserved reputation for overengineering. Still, they chose plastic for the Sparcstation 4, 5 and 20 that disintigrates with age, despite otherwise very solid design. The Ultra 5 and 10 came from the same factory that did Packard Bell at the time (in the time that PB had become cheap and crap; Mitac iirc), and you can feel the difference with older (or newer) Sun stuff instantly. Early P4 Dell stuff was squishy plastic fantastic that started falling apart before it was out of warranty. IBM M2 keyboards. Etc. etc.

Basic rule is that workstation/server stuff is solid and reliable, but as with every rule there are exceptions, so blindly assuming it should be better is unwise.

Reply 2668 of 2760, by derSammler

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Owning a SPARCstation 5 myself, this is only partly correct. The system is made of very thick metal and heavy as a tank. The plastic parts around that do indeed disintegrate with age are decoration only, they don't serve any purpose.

On the other hand, I also own a Sun Blade 100, which was Sun's first workstation for less than 1000 US$. And yes, it shows... it's built as cheap as any average PC at that time.

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Reply 2669 of 2760, by dionb

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derSammler wrote on 2020-02-11, 09:49:

Owning a SPARCstation 5 myself, this is only partly correct. The system is made of very thick metal and heavy as a tank. The plastic parts around that do indeed disintegrate with age are decoration only, they don't serve any purpose.

No purpose, but your 5 and my 20 look flakier than say that Blade 100, which is a shame given how incredibly robust the steel parts and PCBs are.

On the other hand, I also own a Sun Blade 100, which was Sun's first workstation for less than 1000 US$. And yes, it shows... it's built as cheap as any average PC at that time.

Ah yes, the Blade 100 is the purple version of the Ultra 5. Same case, same "quality".

Reply 2670 of 2760, by amadeus777999

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yawetaG wrote on 2020-02-11, 06:37:

At least most older hardware is usually build to last, completely opposite today's "planned obsolescence" (whether it is by design like a lot of IoT products or by using the cheapest production option possible in terms of quality).

The dire truth regarding many products.

Reply 2671 of 2760, by Unknown_K

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Many companies had issues with bad plastics in the 90's, it was industry wide (especially Apple that used plastics for more then just looks).

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Reply 2672 of 2760, by Deczor

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Well, this came out of a transfer station, so I guess it counts.

The case was horrible, so finding a nice one. 100mhz of pentium socket7 glory.
It will be my DOS machine, if I can get it to POST. Currently I get a long beep, silence, long beep, silence, ad infinitum.

Preliminary findings indicate it's either a ram problem, or a fan problem. Or a CMOS problem, (though the CMOS is a brand new one) Beep codes online are undecided on what the issue actually is. Since I've thrown away the fan... sigh.

https://i.imgur.com/86C3W5z.jpg

Anyway, I think it's cool and was worth saving from being squished by a bulldozer.

Reply 2673 of 2760, by dionb

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Deczor wrote on 2020-02-12, 06:46:
Well, this came out of a transfer station, so I guess it counts. […]
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Well, this came out of a transfer station, so I guess it counts.

The case was horrible, so finding a nice one. 100mhz of pentium socket7 glory.
It will be my DOS machine, if I can get it to POST. Currently I get a long beep, silence, long beep, silence, ad infinitum.

Preliminary findings indicate it's either a ram problem, or a fan problem. Or a CMOS problem, (though the CMOS is a brand new one) Beep codes online are undecided on what the issue actually is. Since I've thrown away the fan... sigh.

https://i.imgur.com/86C3W5z.jpg

Anyway, I think it's cool and was worth saving from being squished by a bulldozer.

That's a Pentium system and you only have a single 72p SIMM in there. Not sure if your beep is due to RAM, but you definitely have a RAM problem - Intel chipsets only work with the full 64b mem bus, so you need a second SIMM (and they need to be identical) for it to work. Some other chipsets let you work (with abominable performance) with a single SIMM, these won't. Also best to work wih SIMMs in bank 0, not bank 1 (although that shouldn't be a problem on Intel chipsets)

Reply 2674 of 2760, by yawetaG

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Unknown_K wrote on 2020-02-12, 01:39:

Many companies had issues with bad plastics in the 90's, it was industry wide (especially Apple that used plastics for more then just looks).

And many companies will continue having issues with bad plastics, as it is a matter of fact that all plastics degrade over time (some more than others). The plasticizers (the stuff that keeps plastic flexible) leak out over time, making plastics more brittle. Sunlight, smoke, moisture, etc. damages them, too.

Reply 2675 of 2760, by Unknown_K

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Plastics have changed quite a bit over the years. If you ever been in an old 70's car that had quite a bit of plastics in the inside you could generally scratch the plastic and it would crumble to dust because of UV light. The stuff Apple used in the Quadra 840AV line (for example) would not turn to dust, it would just shatter if flexed. Heating cycles will eventually crack plastic as well (car dashboards) or just warp them (old cassettes used in car stereos left in a hot car).

I don't think smoke or moisture affects plastics much AFTER processing, but moisture is a major problem with the raw material during processing into a final product.

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Reply 2676 of 2760, by Deczor

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dionb wrote on 2020-02-12, 11:11:

That's a Pentium system and you only have a single 72p SIMM in there. Not sure if your beep is due to RAM, but you definitely have a RAM problem - Intel chipsets only work with the full 64b mem bus, so you need a second SIMM (and they need to be identical) for it to work. Some other chipsets let you work (with abominable performance) with a single SIMM, these won't. Also best to work wih SIMMs in bank 0, not bank 1 (although that shouldn't be a problem on Intel chipsets)

Crap. I'm dumb. It's working now.

The new replacement CMOS seems to be good too. Now I just need an AT keyboard.
Damn being in NZ, where you simply can't find stuff.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-02-14, 05:53. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2677 of 2760, by pentiumspeed

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Back then between 2003 to 2009, I was fixing TVs, one of the brands is Sharp tend to have real bad plastic that shattered easily if you just whack with open palm on the back. 🙁

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Reply 2678 of 2760, by Horun

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Deczor wrote on 2020-02-12, 23:26:

Crap. I'm dumb. It's working now.

The new replacement CMOS seems to be good too. Now I just need an AT keyboard.
Damn being in NZ, where you simply can't find stuff.

Great ! Nice find ! Do you have a PS/2 KB ? most will work with a PS/2 to AT adapter to an AT motherboard.

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣

Reply 2679 of 2760, by SpectriaForce

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Finally I was lucky for once 😀

I brought some optical drives to their last destination and took this HP Brio (you never see this model in the classified ads in my country for sale) from the e-waste container home today:

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I've inspected it and cleaned it quickly this afternoon.

It has a Pentium MMX (probably 166 or 200), proprietary form factor i430VX board, 32 MB RAM, 2.1GB HDD and an onboard S3 Trio 'something'. A very typical 1997 pc (according to some date stamps inside).

To my surprise it works:

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The hard disk had some difficulty spinning properly, but after several reboots that disappeared 😁 (the pc lay under a big CRT tv..)

I'm going to keep this one, always nice to have a socket 7 system with a good motherboard.

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