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Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

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Reply 160 of 214, by hageir

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Hmph 🙁
Ok, thanks for the replies gents’

I’ll just pull up my pants and get my Yamaha C1 Music Computer up and running again. That thing has 8X MIDI OUTs and is “Intelligent”
Heck, Texture is also written for it 😀

Reply 161 of 214, by varrol

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There is some info about fake yamaha cards - I got SV550 YMF724F made in China - just finished cleaning and I had to remove the sticker from the back and then - hello - damaged soldermask. I've noticed some darker spots in other places. It works with original drivers. I wonder if this is a fake.

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Asus CUBX-E | P3 1GHz | 512MB | GF4 TI4200 | YMF719E-S
Asus P3B-F | P3 933MHz | 384MB | Radeon 9200 | CT4520
AOpen AX6B+ | P3 1GHz | 1GB ECC REG | FX5200 | CT4500
Asus P5A | P55C 200MHz | 256MB | Riva TNT | CT3600

Reply 162 of 214, by cyclone3d

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Looks real to me. The package size of the chip is correct. A quick search of the model number brings up that it was made / sold by Sound Vision. See here for a youtube video:
https://youtu.be/KGIfaVyU6Kc

The remarked / fake cards usually / always have some model of CMI chip and the drivers that come with them reflect that.

Since it works with the Yamaha drivers it is definitely a real Yamaha chip.

Edit... Saw one of those sv550 cards on eBay looks like they were made by aerobics.

Last edited by cyclone3d on 2020-04-12, 18:29. Edited 1 time in total.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 163 of 214, by varrol

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-04-12, 01:10:
Looks real to me. The package size of the chip is correct. A quick search of the model number brings up that it was made / sold […]
Show full quote

Looks real to me. The package size of the chip is correct. A quick search of the model number brings up that it was made / sold by Sound Vision. See here for a youtube video:
https://youtu.be/KGIfaVyU6Kc

The remarked / fake cards usually / always have some model of CMI chip and the drivers that come with them reflect that.

Since it works with the Yamaha drivers it is definitely a real Yamaha chip.

Thank you 😀

Asus CUBX-E | P3 1GHz | 512MB | GF4 TI4200 | YMF719E-S
Asus P3B-F | P3 933MHz | 384MB | Radeon 9200 | CT4520
AOpen AX6B+ | P3 1GHz | 1GB ECC REG | FX5200 | CT4500
Asus P5A | P55C 200MHz | 256MB | Riva TNT | CT3600

Reply 164 of 214, by derSammler

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-04-12, 01:10:
Looks real to me. The package size of the chip is correct. A quick search of the model number brings up that it was made / sold […]
Show full quote

Looks real to me. The package size of the chip is correct. A quick search of the model number brings up that it was made / sold by Sound Vision. See here for a youtube video:
https://youtu.be/KGIfaVyU6Kc

The remarked / fake cards usually / always have some model of CMI chip and the drivers that come with them reflect that.

Since it works with the Yamaha drivers it is definitely a real Yamaha chip.

The inscription on the chip of his card is fake, however. Not sure what was done there, but that's not how the chip should look. Even the video you posted proves that. The inscription is off-center, lacks color, and has different, almost cut-out shininess where the text is. Such a poor job wasn't done by Yamaha. I'm pretty sure the chip would fail the cotton-stick test.

Also, the chip looks like it was replaced. Probably some older pin-compatible one re-labled as a YMF724F-V. The damage on the back side could be from that soldering job.

Last edited by derSammler on 2020-04-12, 09:28. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 165 of 214, by imi

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yeah it's very weird, the marking does not seem to be genuine, but the package looks correct?
and there are plenty pictures of that card with a genuine chip... mabye it's one of the more feature reduced versions like a YMF740

Reply 166 of 214, by RayeR

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Hi, what do you mean by "correct package size" of the chip? If I remember well in yamaha datasheet there were produced 2 version of packages, one square and second rectangle. Are you saying that Chinese makes fake card with CMI chips? But the CMI chip is not pin compatible so there should be seen some differences on the layout and once the card plugged to PC you would see different PCI ID (I doubt they could fake the ID as is hardwired in the chip). I rather guess they are using old chips from the scrap that we transporting back from US and Europe to China and small children are baking the PCBs on fire and digging out the old chips 😀 Then those recycled chips can be grind off the topside and lasered or printed new markig. But again it cannot override the PCI ID. I doubt they fabricate a new silicon. Sure the could if there would be enogh demand say 1M chips per year the will manufacture some new chips. I assume that Yamaha doesn't produce this chips for years so there's no other sources.
EDIT: at the card photo I can clearly see the chip was hand-soldered/replaced but cannot state if by a fake one. I wold say if PCI ID match then it's ok.
Can you point me to some reference of detailed fake Yamaha cards analysis with some facts not only guess? We could make a separated thread about it if there are users with proved fake cards.

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GF7900GT, SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 167 of 214, by varrol

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Check the 5-th picture: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254017434013 -> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LWEAAOSwzZNcC72E/s-l1600.jpg - one of those cards have pretty much the same markings.

Asus CUBX-E | P3 1GHz | 512MB | GF4 TI4200 | YMF719E-S
Asus P3B-F | P3 933MHz | 384MB | Radeon 9200 | CT4520
AOpen AX6B+ | P3 1GHz | 1GB ECC REG | FX5200 | CT4500
Asus P5A | P55C 200MHz | 256MB | Riva TNT | CT3600

Reply 168 of 214, by cyclone3d

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The fake cards are sold as Yamaha based cards but are not. The Chinese scammers sell CMI based cards that have the chip etched to look like a Yamaha chip.

They will not work with the Yamaha drivers and they come with a driver CD to install the CMI drivers and hope the buyer doesn't realize they have been scammed until it is too late.

For more info on the fake chips, all you have to do is look atr the very first post of this thread. 1.9

Here is another thread about them:
Yamaha YMF734B-V sound card

I don't think that they are actually that widespread. They may have been a problem a few years ago but I rarely see fake ones pop up for sale. Pretty sure the last fake one I saw for sale was actually listed as a fake card.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 169 of 214, by RayeR

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Yeah it's possible to make fake card with various chips of similar size but at closer look the wiring should be different than YMF chips. Unfortunately no photo of such card there. If someone will buy such scam on ebay/ali he can open dispute and get money back. And if the card is fully working with yamaha drives I wouldn't care (such fake chip would be a good copy but nobody proved there such fake chip, only complains about different marking - printed vs lasered, Yamaha could use both who can be sure?). So if Varrol card is working (regardless it was refurbished) he shouldn't be afraid and enjoy it 😀

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GF7900GT, SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 170 of 214, by zapbuzz

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not all cards come out perfect they are sometimes slightly off is why in online shops there is disclaimers may be slightly different to display item. Anyhow I have had so much fun with my ymf724.
The only thing that stirs me is the 1040 driver version is fantastic at sound but it is limited to unsigned drivers. If I upgrade the pc to direct x 9 software hardware is locked out and its hardware emulation most noticeable when starting and stopping music playing through the yamaha xg100 software sequencer that it kind of "barfs its buffers" 🤣.
I'm glad I got it though as a refreshing variation of automated special effects of the xg synthesizer range and I am listening to 4 channels of audio it has capacity to inspire imagination of possibilities.
I am considering connecting my xg synthesizer a musicians touch is better than mechanical especially with a pitch bend
It would be fantastic if someone dumped the chip contents so to build a vsti I mean 4 channel midi should live on.

Last edited by zapbuzz on 2020-05-09, 16:11. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 171 of 214, by yjfy

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XG Sound Star
I didn't find any information about this card, I would love to see other photos of this card, thanks!

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Reply 172 of 214, by zapbuzz

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can someone please recommend a Microsoft hardware labs signed version of the ymf724 driver for windows 98se? i'm going to install windows 98FE just to get hardware acceleration otherwise i mean on windows 98se the 1040 driver isn't signed for dx6,7,8 or 9 🤣
If windows 98FE has dx6 then i have to go back to windows 95 O.O

Reply 173 of 214, by darry

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zapbuzz wrote on 2020-05-09, 16:12:

can someone please recommend a Microsoft hardware labs signed version of the ymf724 driver for windows 98se? i'm going to install windows 98FE just to get hardware acceleration otherwise i mean on windows 98se the 1040 driver isn't signed for dx6,7,8 or 9 🤣
If windows 98FE has dx6 then i have to go back to windows 95 O.O

I was not aware that WHQL signing of drivers was a requirement for hardware acceleration under Windows 9X or even more recent version (having to jump through hoops to use unsigned drivers in Vista and higher is another story) . I have used unsigned video card drivers (for example) before under Windows 9x and had no issues with Direct3D or OpenGL acceleration .

Can you provide any links to references or documentation on that subject ?

EDIT : If you want to test that empirically, you can test with a driver set that is signed and has working hardware acceleration by removing the *.cat signature files and installing it. The drivers will then appear unsigned to Windows and you will be able to check if hardware acceleration still works (AFAIK it still should) .

EDIT 2: Just to be clear, while WHQL drivers must adhere to a specific set of requirements (hardware acceleration likely being one of them), that does not mean that non WHQL signed drivers cannot have hardware acceleration, it just means that they might not and have not been tested by Microsoft .

Reply 175 of 214, by darry

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zapbuzz wrote on 2020-05-09, 20:02:

I just find dxdiag testing software buffers play not hardware does this card have hardware acceleration or is it just software buffers

I am sorry, but I do not fully understand your question here.

As for the software vs hardware buffers, I really do not know what this chip can support or not on that front .

Reply 176 of 214, by zapbuzz

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never mind darry it supports direct x 7 & 8 its just the drivers aren't signed I want a yamaha synth enabled soundcard that has signed drivers that labs quality bulldust microsoft makes inflation with

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-05-12, 04:08. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 177 of 214, by pentiumspeed

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XG Sound Star should sound nice since the PCB is 4 layers while other XG boards were 2 layers.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 178 of 214, by darry

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2020-05-11, 20:35:

XG Sound Star should sound nice since the PCB is 4 layers while other XG boards were 2 layers.

Cheers,

Even Yamaha's own branded Waveforce 192XG ?

Reply 179 of 214, by zapbuzz

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it sounds great on my home HIFI with 4 speaker setup however if i enable 3d sound it won't let me record it thus I will need another sound card to patch it into to record 4 track audio in windows 98se so what I need to know is, what is the maximum attachment size of this forum as i can probably attach a .wav or .mp3 of this soundcard and a photo for everyone to sample. Alternatively I could post files to archive.org and link them but i'd prefer to post here.