VOGONS


Reply 2300 of 2460, by hard1k

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Won't go back to that discussion again, I'm for the hole. I've drilled it, I'll drill it again, and I just can't understand why there can't be a hole out of the box...

New sound card project: AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)

Reply 2302 of 2460, by hard1k

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ARGUS follows the jack assignment as used on Vibra, it's Line In / Mic In / Line Out (top to bottom), and the CX4235 is Mic In / Line In / Line Out.

New sound card project: AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)

Reply 2303 of 2460, by kompas-rus

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hard1k wrote on 2020-05-20, 12:39:

ARGUS follows the jack assignment as used on Vibra, it's Line In / Mic In / Line Out (top to bottom), and the CX4235 is Mic In / Line In / Line Out.

Engraving is not the main thing in this, the main thing is that it is compatible and works))

Reply 2304 of 2460, by hard1k

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Each one has his own standard of quality and perfection.

New sound card project: AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)

Reply 2305 of 2460, by matze79

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oh lets rip off some parts of soundcards and make them more rar 😉

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 2306 of 2460, by shock__

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If we go by that logic this whole project would be a desaster ... afterall the InterWave chips I'm using are precious and very rare spare parts!!!!!!1one.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

[Z?]

Reply 2307 of 2460, by kompas-rus

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shock__ wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:02:

If we go by that logic this whole project would be a desaster ... afterall the InterWave chips I'm using are precious and very rare spare parts!!!!!!1one.

Friend, rare? How much do you need? 100-1000-10000 pieces, This is all in stock)

Reply 2308 of 2460, by 640K!enough

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kompas-rus wrote on 2020-05-22, 15:46:

Friend, rare? How much do you need? 100-1000-10000 pieces, This is all in stock)

The problem with that idea is that many of those are likely the revision with the "distortion bug". This appears to have been corrected in a later revision of the silicon, and those are the chips one wants when building a new InterWave-based device.

Reply 2309 of 2460, by digistorm

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640K!enough wrote on 2020-05-23, 04:04:

The problem with that idea is that many of those are likely the revision with the "distortion bug". This appears to have been corrected in a later revision of the silicon, and those are the chips one wants when building a new InterWave-based device.

May I ask what that distortion bug was? Were there actual cards sold with this bug?

Reply 2310 of 2460, by kompas-rus

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640K!enough wrote on 2020-05-23, 04:04:
kompas-rus wrote on 2020-05-22, 15:46:

Friend, rare? How much do you need? 100-1000-10000 pieces, This is all in stock)

The problem with that idea is that many of those are likely the revision with the "distortion bug". This appears to have been corrected in a later revision of the silicon, and those are the chips one wants when building a new InterWave-based device.

Did you come up with this yourself?

Reply 2311 of 2460, by 640K!enough

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digistorm wrote on 2020-05-23, 08:29:

May I ask what that distortion bug was? Were there actual cards sold with this bug?

It was a bug that appeared to be present in earlier InterWave silicon. After playing certain material, the chip would get into a state where there was some distortion present in almost all synthesiser output. It is unclear to me if this affected only the synthesiser module, or if other output from the chip was affected. I have only inadvertently triggered it on one occasion. IWINIT or using the reset switch weren't enough to clear the condition; only a full power cycle did the job.

At the very least, some earlier GUS PnP boards did ship with the bug. My only genuine Gravis board is affected. I still don't know if it really is a silicon bug, or if it is related to another aspect of the version 1.0 Gravis board design. Speculation at the time was that it was a silicon bug.

kompas-rus wrote on 2020-05-23, 11:25:

Did you come up with this yourself?

No, sorry, I didn't. If you're still not convinced, you can search pouet.net (among other places) for old discussions about the GUS PnP; it is mentioned there.

Reply 2312 of 2460, by digistorm

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Okay, well I notice with my GUSpnp that after certain programs (mainly demo's) that maybe don't exit clean, that after that samples sound staticcy (if that is a word) or that the loop points are not accurate. Especially with smooth samples like sine waves or pads you hear tics at the loop points that shouldn't be there. I didn't know if that was normal, and I wonder if it is related to this 'bug'. My GUSpnp has a version number 1.0 on the PCB and the Interwave chip has the year 1995 on it.

Reply 2313 of 2460, by shock__

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kompas-rus wrote on 2020-05-22, 15:46:
shock__ wrote on 2020-05-22, 11:02:

If we go by that logic this whole project would be a desaster ... afterall the InterWave chips I'm using are precious and very rare spare parts!!!!!!1one.

Friend, rare? How much do you need? 100-1000-10000 pieces, This is all in stock)

My response was ironic. I'm aware of various chip brokers having the IC in stock and one seller on eBay having a larger quantity as well.

Current Project: new GUS PnP compatible soundcard

[Z?]

Reply 2314 of 2460, by 640K!enough

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digistorm wrote on 2020-05-23, 17:35:

Okay, well I notice with my GUSpnp that after certain programs (mainly demo's) that maybe don't exit clean, that after that samples sound staticcy (if that is a word) or that the loop points are not accurate.

I have never read about this bug being triggered by software that doesn't exit cleanly, though I'm not sure anyone ever documented a simple, reliable way to demonstrate the bug. It also doesn't exactly sound like static to me.

It is worth repeating that the InterWave also behaves somewhat differently from a traditional GF1-based UltraSound. Because of the different clock frequencies used with the InterWave, as well as the way the compatibility is implemented, the playback rates will be slightly different than what you would get on a real GF1-based card (when using UltraSound compatibility mode). That could affect loop points. The "distortion bug" is different in that, once triggered, it affects all modes of operation, and the audible differences are present in InterWave enhanced mode (even when using the included PLAY.EXE to play MOD or MIDI files), and persists until a full power cycle. If what you are noticing is resolved by running IWINIT or different software afterwards, then we are not talking about the same thing.

digistorm wrote on 2020-05-23, 17:35:

Especially with smooth samples like sine waves or pads you hear tics at the loop points that shouldn't be there. I didn't know if that was normal, and I wonder if it is related to this 'bug'. My GUSpnp has a version number 1.0 on the PCB and the Interwave chip has the year 1995 on it.

As far as I'm aware, all InterWave chips have a 1995 copyright engraved into the chip; the chip used on my first ARGUS prototype was produced in 1996, but the copyright is still 1995. Also, I have never noticed the bug on a board that uses the AM78C201AKC; only those without the 'A'. Furthermore, it seems to affect earlier parts with a 1995 production code; for instance, mine is 9541EGA B2. Some old discussions have suggested that is is the Bx notation that suggests an affected part.

Reply 2316 of 2460, by MJay99

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640K!enough wrote on 2020-05-25, 18:25:

As far as I'm aware, all InterWave chips have a 1995 copyright engraved into the chip; the chip used on my first ARGUS prototype was produced in 1996, but the copyright is still 1995. Also, I have never noticed the bug on a board that uses the AM78C201AKC; only those without the 'A'. Furthermore, it seems to affect earlier parts with a 1995 production code; for instance, mine is 9541EGA B2. Some old discussions have suggested that is is the Bx notation that suggests an affected part.

Thank you very much for this information - I've been wondering about the difference between the KC and AKC version for quite a while now!

Reply 2318 of 2460, by hard1k

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Hey guys,

As you may already know, JazeFox has created a cool PNP init utility - UNISOUND - and he has suggested adding special support for the ARGUS in it if there is some way to correctly identify it as such.

JazeFox wrote on 2020-05-26, 11:50:

About ARGUS card , it could to be treated uniquely in Unisound, if you (or the creator/s) want. Does it have a custom PnP EEPROM?: an special PnP vID or name, special resource assignations... In that case I can add it to Unisound specifically...

New sound card project: AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)

Reply 2319 of 2460, by 640K!enough

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MJay99 wrote on 2020-05-25, 18:53:

Thank you very much for this information - I've been wondering about the difference between the KC and AKC version for quite a while now!

Those comments were just based on my observations so far; I have no documents to prove that it was fixed for the first time in the AKC, nor that the AKC is entirely immune.

hard1k wrote on 2020-05-26, 12:06:

As you may already know, JazeFox has created a cool PNP init utility - UNISOUND - and he has suggested adding special support for the ARGUS in it if there is some way to correctly identify it as such.

So far, most of the prototypes have been using the Gravis resource map. There are no differences and, for now, we have no real reason to make changes. I was thinking of putting together a custom resource map for ARGUS, with "vanity" identification strings, but it hasn't been a priority. Furthermore, unless we make some other substantive changes, initialising an InterWave-based board should be a similar process, with the slight exception of boards that have the additional TEA6330T. Scanning the ROM space is something that every initialisation tool should do for every InterWave board.