brostenen wrote on 2020-06-16, 23:51:Well... I will never use the cards I talk about on anything post Pentium1. Like. That is Windows territory and not Dos territory […]
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darry wrote on 2020-06-16, 21:59:My current main retro setup is a P3 1400Mhz with an FX 5900 (AGP) and a Voodoo 3 3000 and I have been using various flavour of […]
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brostenen wrote on 2020-06-16, 20:52:
Yup. I know most of those things, and of course you use an S3 of good quality. Those three cards I mentioned, are all better suited for 2D gfx in Dos, than any Voodoo cards. And of course you use high quality loopback cables, and if you happens to have mis matching V2's, then you use FasVoodoo 4.6 drivers. Issues solved, and you get a better overall machine for Dos games.
These things I mention, are kind of common knowledge here on Vogons. Just go and do a search, however it will be some job, to read through +10 years of posts.
The reason why those cards I mention, are better for Dos gaming, is that they are 100% compatible with Dos titles. Again. Use a card of good brand, as you get stuff like bad black levels on S3 cards. I recommend the Number9 version of Virge-325 for anything faster than Pentium-133/166. Voodoo3 for K6-II/III machines, because they are fastest and most compatible with those CPU's, and because you need more horsepowers for TNT2 and G400. Going for Pentium3-1000 and faster, I recommend something like TNT2 or GF2. As that CPU can deliver what the cards require.
My current main retro setup is a P3 1400Mhz with an FX 5900 (AGP) and a Voodoo 3 3000 and I have been using various flavour of S3 , CL and Trident cards and many others since the early nineties . I have also been lurking on Vogons for over a decade .
My point is not that that that the Voodoo 3 is necessarily THE BEST for any specific purpose (Glide, old VGA games compatibility, 2D image quality), but that the combination of strengths it does have make it a very compelling and practical choice .
You mention that CL and S3 cards are better compatibility wise, that may well be true, though, except for a things like lack of a dedicated CGA mode (not significant for my use), I don't find the Voodoo 3's VGA core to have significant issues with the games and demos that I have tried . The general consensus on Vogons, as far as I know, is that the Voodoo 3 VGA core is well regarded . That said, if there is a list of specific incompatibilities I may have missed, please point me towards it. Even if there is no list, I do not disagree that specifc incompatibilities must certainly exist . As an example, the Amnesia demo crashes on my Voodoo 3, but works fine on my FX 5900 . Nothing is 100% compatible with all VGA software and I, for one, will not be running after an ET4000 to play the Copper demo 100% accurately, for example. Nor will I be going back to a CRT (another point to consider if you want maximum compatibility with software that manipulates the VGA CRTC in peculiar ways) anytime soon .
As for my issue with Voodoo2 SLI, over 20 years ago, I was using matched Guillemot Voodoo 2 cards and still had issues, no matter what driver I tried . I then got a Voodoo3 2000 (at the time), that just worked without any issues with the games I was playing at the time (I was not playing ancient hard-coded Glide games that only work well on a Voodoo 1) . Things might well have improved for V2 SLI, since then, driver wise (though I still see the odd rant on Vogons), but I did not see the point in trying again as Voodoo2 SLI, does not have an advantage over Voodoo3 (Glide-wise) for my use case .
All that said, I hope you don't feel the need to convince me . I certainly don't feel the need to convince you . If it does happen, either way, and to whatever extent, thats fine too. Exchanging opinions and explaining their basis is one of the more interesting things on Vogons, IMHO . So if you do feel like you want talk more about VGA compatibility, please do . I am definitely open to learning something new on a subject that is interesting to me
Cheers!
Well... I will never use the cards I talk about on anything post Pentium1. Like. That is Windows territory and not Dos territory.
And when I say best for dos, and talk about PCI cards, then I am in reality referring to 486 or Pentium with PCI-Slot.
I need to ask you and to be clear. When you are saying Dos, do you mean Win9x included? That is not Dos, that is Windows.
When I say DOS, I mean pure DOS real mode (without Windows running) . The version is version 7.1 , as provided with Windows 98 SE . I don't even boot into Windows by default (I have set BootGUI=0 in MSDOS.SYS) . I obviously sometimes use Windows 98 SE as well .
For me, the reasons for not running DOS 6.22 , for example, are the following
a) I hate dual booting (I still need to run Windows 98 SE on the machine and Windows 98 SE runs best under its included DOS 7.1
b) Lack of FAT32 support
c) I use a drive greater than 8.4GB in size
d) I have found no compelling reason to use an older version of DOS . Everything I've tried so far runs fine under DOS 7.1
With the exception of early Sierra and LucasArts titles, I rarely go pre-VGA (before 1987). I have not yet had to face a situation where FAT32 won't work and if I ever do, I have the room for a FAT16 partition (or even a FAT12 one, if it comes to that).
I obviously use SETMUL to go down to 386-like speeds when necessary . If I need to go slower (not a common occurrence) , there are, of course, multiple slowdown utilities to choose from .
Why do I run everything from such a wide time period (1987 to 2001 approximately) on a single machine ?
Well, first, because I can and, second, because I just don't have room for a multitude of machines (386 and/or 486, Pentium 1) . I do also have a late vintage Windows XP machine, a Windows 7 dedicated one and a current Windows 10 one . The XP one is not even currently plugged in, because I mostly don't need it .
Current retro machine specs (always in a state of flux, as I love to tweak things) :
- Pentium 3 Tualatin-S @1400MHz with 512K L2 cache
- Ipox 3ETI23 industrial motherboard (815EP-based with 3 ISA slots and onboard Fast Ethernet)
- 512 MB (2x256) of PC133 SDRAM
- MSI AGP Nvidia FX 5900
- 3Dfx Voodoo 3 3000 (PCI)
- 500GB Samsung 860EVO using a JMD330 Serial ATA/IDE bridge (with 3 partitions, each smaller than 127GB)
- 5 and 1/4" floppy drive
- 3 and 1/2" floppy drive
- LG GSA-4167 DVD-ROM drive
- Gravis Ultrasound Ultralsound 3.73 with 1 MB RAM
- Creative AWE64 Value with 28MB RAM (thanks to SIMMCONN revival)
- Mediatrix Audiotrix 3DXG (OPL3SA) with Monster 3D 4MB GS (Dream 9733) daughterboard (for SB Pro compatibility and authentic embedded OPL3)
- Windows 98SE with big HDD patch
- MIDIMAN MIDISport 2x4 running in passive mode and with output 2 looped into input 2 (turning it into 1x3 midi splitter) connected to AWE64 via DB15 to MIDI cable
- first generation Roland MT32
- Roland SC-88VL
- Yamaha MU500
- Akai DPS12 multi-track recorder used as an audio mixer
- RCA brand 4x1 component AV switcher (not enough inputs on the DPS12)
EDIT: Oh, and if nobody noticed, I'm not into period-correctness . Form follows function .