renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

About overclocking the Voodoo 3 2000 PCI.. Is it any risk to overclock it at 166mhz core and 166mhz for ram like a voodoo 3 3000? I will add a fan on the core heatsink.

It's a good idea to add a fan and memory heatsinks since Voodoo3 cards get fairly hot even at default clock speeds. I would strongly advise against overclocking it unless you're willing to lose a pricey bit of hardware for gains of 3-5 FPS.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-08-19, 03:18:

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

About overclocking the Voodoo 3 2000 PCI.. Is it any risk to overclock it at 166mhz core and 166mhz for ram like a voodoo 3 3000? I will add a fan on the core heatsink.

It's a good idea to add a fan and heatsink since Voodoo3 cards get fairly hot even at default clock speeds. I would strongly advise against overclocking it unless you're willing to lose a pricey bit of hardware for gains of 3-5 FPS.

in that case i wont do it . Thanks for let me know. i thought it was like 99.9% safe to overclocked it at 166mhz like a 3000.

If youre curious you can read my " VERY LONG" last post again i just finished to edited it for the 3rd time. LoL! i added some interesting things 😉 and i added the pictures

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

I can buy tomorrow a Pentium 2 266mhz with 128mb for 40$. But i dont think its enough strong to play Glide games in 1024x768 with high details at 60 fps like NFS III , NFS IV and Porsche unleashed, Tomb Raiders series, Ultima 8 and several others games of that time. What do you think ? Is it it enough for 60 FPS in most games in 1024x768 ? Maybe i could buy the P2 266mhz and the P3 too.
Is it ANY advantage to have a Pentium 2 266mhz vs Pentium 3 at 500-600mhz for DOS GAMES?

Definitely not worth it. A Pentium 2 266, while it will be faster than a Pentium MMX, it will still be a severe bottleneck for later Windows 98 games. And as for DOS... yeah, it will be better for later DOS games, but not MUCH better than a Pentium MMX 233. Also, the P2 doesn't have the same slowdown capabilities that the Pentium MMX does. And if it's based on the 350nm Klamath core, it's quite power hungry and runs pretty hot (especially for such a slow CPU).
My suggestion is to keep the Pentium MMX for early DOS & Windows 95 gaming, and buy something much more powerful for late Windows 98 games/late DOS games.
When it comes to achieving 60 FPS, things get a bit tricky:
- on the one hand, Tomb Raider games up to Tomb Raider 5 "Chronicles" are capped at 30 FPS and should run without frame drops on a Voodoo 3 2000/3000 and a Pentium 2 450 (maybe even lower?).
- for games such as Need For Speed Porsche, you absolutely want a video card capable of 32 bit color and high resolution 2048 x 2048 textures (this game looks washed out on Voodoo cards prior to Voodoo 4/5). And even though the official system requirements are quite low for this game, if you want high resolutions and a perfectly smooth 60 FPS without frame drops, you really need to go with a powerful GeForce/Radeon card and a pretty fast CPU. I usually just play this game at 1600 x 1200 on Athlon XP / Athlon 64 / Pentium 4 / Core 2 Duo, paired with a video card such as the GeForce FX 5900/Radeon 9800 series. At 1280 x 1024, if I remember correctly, even a GeForce 4 Ti 4200 is able to achieve 60 FPS (with very few frame drops). But the general idea is that this game is more suitable for a more modern (but still retro) rig 😀

Again, if you want my suggestion, keep the Pentium MMX for DOS / Windows 95 gaming, and buy a very powerful (but flexible) system for anything else.
My recommendation for a super flexible "time machine" system, is a cheap Athlon XP Thoroughbred (such as this Athlon XP 1700+), paired with a VIA KT600 / VT 8237 motherboard like this one.
Such a system has many advantages:
- The CPU has an unlocked multiplier: it can go as low as 500 MHz (with 100 MHz FSB / 5x multiplier) or as high as 2 GHz + (at 166MHz & 12.5x multiplier), most of these chips needing just a small voltage bump for these high frequencies.
- The Asus A7V600 motherboard (unlike other KT600 motherboards), has all the bells and whistles for overclocking / throttling the CPU. You can disable either the L1 cache, the L2 cache, or both of them.
- The VIA south bridge is extremely compatible when it comes to DOS: Sound blaster digital speech will work perfectly with many sound cards and it also supports even further granular hardware throttling with the Throttle application. Add a Yamaha YMF724/744 or ESS Solo-1 sound card, and you're good to go.
- As for the video card, you can first get a cheap GeForce 4 MX 440 (which, don't get me wrong, is still a VERY powerful card, probably more than twice as fast as a Voodoo 5 5500). This card is a great performer in Windows 98 and very compatible with DOS games.

A system like the one above is probably the ultimate time machine PC that you could build. It can be tuned down to 386 speeds, 486 speeds, Pentium MMX speed.... all the way up to Pentium 4 equivalent speeds. So you can cover 15 years of gaming. 😀 For many people, such a system would be enough - there would be no need to buy any other retro parts 😀 Unfortunately, I'm crazy, so I can't just settle with one system for everything 😁
Now, the catch is that, if you want to also overclock the CPU past 1.8/1.9 GHz, you will need a PSU that has a pretty beefy 5V rail (at least 24 amps), since most socket A motherboards draw a big chunk of their current from the 5V rail. Such PSUs are harder to find nowadays and they are usually quite expensive.
So the alternative would be to go with an Athlon 64 socket 939/754 system (with a VIA K8T800 / VT8237 chipset) which can also be used as a time machine (it can also be throttled down to 386 speeds using hardware based throttling, not emulation), but it's not as ultra-flexible as the Athlon XP system described above. However, the advantage is that you can use a modern PSU with it and, of course, it's faster and more efficient compared to Athlon XP.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

About overclocking the Voodoo 3 2000 PCI.. Is it any risk to overclock it at 166mhz core and 166mhz for ram like a voodoo 3 3000? I will add a fan on the core heatsink. But i dont know if i should add heatsink for memory ? If you think any risk exist in overclocking it at 166mhz for core and memory, i wont do it. I think of using Powerstrip. If it safe and stable i can always update the bios to the Voodoo 3 3000 pci version, but it surely risky.
In 2002 i burned a geforce 256 with overclocking. i was very sad. But for punishing me my parents bought me a Geforce 2 GTS 😉 LoL! i never overclocked it LoL!

There's no point in overclocking it. The Voodoo 3 2000 is quite powerful and it will work great with any Glide game, being able to achieve more than 60 FPS with the right CPU. And for later Direct3D games that don't work well with it, you might as well just go with a GeForce/Radeon card, overclocking the Voodoo 3 won't help. Very important thing to note: make sure that the card is extremely well ventilated (especially the MOSFET on the edge of the card, which gets VERY hot, even hotter than the chip itself). Whenever I use my Voodoo 3 PCI cards, I always add a large 120 mm fan that cools both the chip and that problematic MOSFET.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

About slowing down my P233 mmx like a 386 and 486. Is it any better way than disable L2 Cache or using utilities ? ( i know 2 utilities to do it) and i can change board jumpers to get it at 75mhz.

Setmul is the way to go with a Pentium MMX. For 386 speed, however, you will also need to disable the motherboard (external) cache. I think you should watch Phil's video, he explains things quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8s0H5_-SRU

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

Thanks again for the time you take to answer my questions. Its really appreciated it a lot. Special thanks to Bloodem, you pretty much answered all my questions since the beginning of my topics. 😀 But thanks to you ALL guys ! Its a new hobby to me playing with old hardware 😀

You are very welcome. 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

And is The Yamaha sound card use any sb emulation processing power like a sblive ? if i have the sb link connector does i avoid sb emulation "processing power " ? So DDMA is not a sb emulation, but only if i have to use DSDMA ?

The Yamaha card does not use any emulation, it does everything in hardware and it has a REAL Yamaha OPL3 chip - so FM music will sound perfectly (unlike the SB Live that you mentioned, which does use emulation for everything, and its FM sound is just... trash). DDMA has nothing to do with the card itself, it's a feature that is either supported by the motherboard chipset or it isn't. If it isn't, you need to emulate this feature with a TSR such as DSDMA, but this does not mean that the sound card will use emulation for playing back FM music / digital speech - these will still be hardware based. You can read more about SB-Link/PC-PCI and DDMA in this official Intel document.

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-19, 08:39:

Definitely not worth it. A Pentium 2 266, while it will be faster than a Pentium MMX, it will still be a severe bottleneck for l […]
Show full quote

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

I can buy tomorrow a Pentium 2 266mhz with 128mb for 40$. But i dont think its enough strong to play Glide games in 1024x768 with high details at 60 fps like NFS III , NFS IV and Porsche unleashed, Tomb Raiders series, Ultima 8 and several others games of that time. What do you think ? Is it it enough for 60 FPS in most games in 1024x768 ? Maybe i could buy the P2 266mhz and the P3 too.
Is it ANY advantage to have a Pentium 2 266mhz vs Pentium 3 at 500-600mhz for DOS GAMES?

Definitely not worth it. A Pentium 2 266, while it will be faster than a Pentium MMX, it will still be a severe bottleneck for later Windows 98 games. And as for DOS... yeah, it will be better for later DOS games, but not MUCH better than a Pentium MMX 233. Also, the P2 doesn't have the same slowdown capabilities that the Pentium MMX does. And if it's based on the 350nm Klamath core, it's quite power hungry and runs pretty hot (especially for such a slow CPU).
My suggestion is to keep the Pentium MMX for early DOS & Windows 95 gaming, and buy something much more powerful for late Windows 98 games/late DOS games.
When it comes to achieving 60 FPS, things get a bit tricky:
- on the one hand, Tomb Raider games up to Tomb Raider 5 "Chronicles" are capped at 30 FPS and should run without frame drops on a Voodoo 3 2000/3000 and a Pentium 2 450 (maybe even lower?).
- for games such as Need For Speed Porsche, you absolutely want a video card capable of 32 bit color and high resolution 2048 x 2048 textures (this game looks washed out on Voodoo cards prior to Voodoo 4/5). And even though the official system requirements are quite low for this game, if you want high resolutions and a perfectly smooth 60 FPS without frame drops, you really need to go with a powerful GeForce/Radeon card and a pretty fast CPU. I usually just play this game at 1600 x 1200 on Athlon XP / Athlon 64 / Pentium 4 / Core 2 Duo, paired with a video card such as the GeForce FX 5900/Radeon 9800 series. At 1280 x 1024, if I remember correctly, even a GeForce 4 Ti 4200 is able to achieve 60 FPS (with very few frame drops). But the general idea is that this game is more suitable for a more modern (but still retro) rig 😀

Again, if you want my suggestion, keep the Pentium MMX for DOS / Windows 95 gaming, and buy a very powerful (but flexible) system for anything else.
My recommendation for a super flexible "time machine" system, is a cheap Athlon XP Thoroughbred (such as this Athlon XP 1700+), paired with a VIA KT600 / VT 8237 motherboard like this one.
Such a system has many advantages:
- The CPU has an unlocked multiplier: it can go as low as 500 MHz (with 100 MHz FSB / 5x multiplier) or as high as 2 GHz + (at 166MHz & 12.5x multiplier), most of these chips needing just a small voltage bump for these high frequencies.
- The Asus A7V600 motherboard (unlike other KT600 motherboards), has all the bells and whistles for overclocking / throttling the CPU. You can disable either the L1 cache, the L2 cache, or both of them.
- The VIA south bridge is extremely compatible when it comes to DOS: Sound blaster digital speech will work perfectly with many sound cards and it also supports even further granular hardware throttling with the Throttle application. Add a Yamaha YMF724/744 or ESS Solo-1 sound card, and you're good to go.
- As for the video card, you can first get a cheap GeForce 4 MX 440 (which, don't get me wrong, is still a VERY powerful card, probably more than twice as fast as a Voodoo 5 5500). This card is a great performer in Windows 98 and very compatible with DOS games.

A system like the one above is probably the ultimate time machine PC that you could build. It can be tuned down to 386 speeds, 486 speeds, Pentium MMX speed.... all the way up to Pentium 4 equivalent speeds. So you can cover 15 years of gaming. 😀 For many people, such a system would be enough - there would be no need to buy any other retro parts 😀 Unfortunately, I'm crazy, so I can't just settle with one system for everything 😁
Now, the catch is that, if you want to also overclock the CPU past 1.8/1.9 GHz, you will need a PSU that has a pretty beefy 5V rail (at least 24 amps), since most socket A motherboards draw a big chunk of their current from the 5V rail. Such PSUs are harder to find nowadays and they are usually quite expensive.
So the alternative would be to go with an Athlon 64 socket 939/754 system (with a VIA K8T800 / VT8237 chipset) which can also be used as a time machine (it can also be throttled down to 386 speeds using hardware based throttling, not emulation), but it's not as ultra-flexible as the Athlon XP system described above. However, the advantage is that you can use a modern PSU with it and, of course, it's faster and more efficient compared to Athlon XP.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

About overclocking the Voodoo 3 2000 PCI.. Is it any risk to overclock it at 166mhz core and 166mhz for ram like a voodoo 3 3000? I will add a fan on the core heatsink. But i dont know if i should add heatsink for memory ? If you think any risk exist in overclocking it at 166mhz for core and memory, i wont do it. I think of using Powerstrip. If it safe and stable i can always update the bios to the Voodoo 3 3000 pci version, but it surely risky.
In 2002 i burned a geforce 256 with overclocking. i was very sad. But for punishing me my parents bought me a Geforce 2 GTS 😉 LoL! i never overclocked it LoL!

There's no point in overclocking it. The Voodoo 3 2000 is quite powerful and it will work great with any Glide game, being able to achieve more than 60 FPS with the right CPU. And for later Direct3D games that don't work well with it, you might as well just go with a GeForce/Radeon card, overclocking the Voodoo 3 won't help. Very important thing to note: make sure that the card is extremely well ventilated (especially the MOSFET on the edge of the card, which gets VERY hot, even hotter than the chip itself). Whenever I use my Voodoo 3 PCI cards, I always add a large 120 mm fan that cools both the chip and that problematic MOSFET.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

About slowing down my P233 mmx like a 386 and 486. Is it any better way than disable L2 Cache or using utilities ? ( i know 2 utilities to do it) and i can change board jumpers to get it at 75mhz.

Setmul is the way to go with a Pentium MMX. For 386 speed, however, you will also need to disable the motherboard (external) cache. I think you should watch Phil's video, he explains things quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8s0H5_-SRU

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

Thanks again for the time you take to answer my questions. Its really appreciated it a lot. Special thanks to Bloodem, you pretty much answered all my questions since the beginning of my topics. 😀 But thanks to you ALL guys ! Its a new hobby to me playing with old hardware 😀

You are very welcome. 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 02:55:

And is The Yamaha sound card use any sb emulation processing power like a sblive ? if i have the sb link connector does i avoid sb emulation "processing power " ? So DDMA is not a sb emulation, but only if i have to use DSDMA ?

The Yamaha card does not use any emulation, it does everything in hardware and it has a REAL Yamaha OPL3 chip - so FM music will sound perfectly (unlike the SB Live that you mentioned, which does use emulation for everything, and its FM sound is just... trash). DDMA has nothing to do with the card itself, it's a feature that is either supported by the motherboard chipset or it isn't. If it isn't, you need to emulate this feature with a TSR such as DSDMA, but this does not mean that the sound card will use emulation for playing back FM music / digital speech - these will still be hardware based. You can read more about SB-Link/PC-PCI and DDMA in this official Intel document.

Wow thanks. But I prefer to keep a intel cpu like P3 for personal retro feeling vs Atlhon XP, i explained it more precisely later on my post.. But i will keep my pentium 233 mmx and use it mostly for Dos gaming and using it a little for windows 98 games.

And i will buy the Pentium 3 500mhz and keep it mostly for Windows 98 games and use the voodoo 3 with it. and using it a little for dos games. I would have buy the P2 266mhz too for 40$, but i dont think it will be necessary at all. i cant find any advantage of having it vs my p233mmx and p3 500mhz? do you know any good use i can do with it ? maybe keep the p2 slot 1 cpu for my p3 rig if needed. but im not sure the p2 266mhz has slot 1..

Ok i will make what you said and keep 2 retro rigs for different things. One for Dos and one for windows 98 games. But most of the games i will play on the Pentium 3 500mhz are Glide games. Probably Need for speed Porsche is one of worst game i will play in term of performance needed. I will try Hot pursuit 2 but i dont care much about the performance. By the way i played Porsche unleashed with a 3dfx Banshee in 2000-2001 so i should be ok in 16 bit colors washout. i think this game is Glide compatible ? Right ? BUT i will add a AGP card like a Geforce card 32mb maybe geforce 4 mx. I think i can still use my voodoo3 pci and a geforce agp in the same system ? right ? i could swap them in the bios when computer boot. is it right ? Thanks for your Athlon XP idea , i had a Athlon XP 2000 several years ago, but i dont want it anymore. I really want a Pentium 3 Cpu for retro feeling. I even want a board i can switch between Pii and Piii cpu in Slot 1 just for fun. If P3 500mhz is not enough in my windows 98 games i will buy a 1.4ghz P3 cpu too. Do you know if the Dell XPS T600 or T500 can accept a P2 cpu ? it should because its a SE440bx from intel, but im not sure bios will support it. Nobody never tested a P2 cpu on it.

Anyway what do you think of my ideas Bloodem ?
dont worry i will keep 2 computers. P233mmx mostly for dos and maybe using the Banshee with it , but i love the FX 5200 in dos for picture quality. and the other pc rig for win98 games, probably P3 500mhz for now. But i will still configure both of them to work with dos and windows 98 games. For the games too slow to work with my P3 500mhz or p3 1.4ghz and a geforce 4 i willplay them with my current pc i7 4790k and geforce 2080ti on windows 10.
( by the way im not rich , it was not easy at all with my money to buy that 2080ti last year 😉

I didnt find any problem yet. But i prefer to use the fx 5200 in my p233mmx for dos because of picture quality ? is it a problem ? i didnt see any slowdown or stuttering yet ? thanks for let me know. but maybe i will use the banshee with it.

But maybe someday i will buy a Athlon XP or P4 or a 80486 or 80386... But for now i will use the p233mmx and a P3 system. I would like to have a 80486 for retro feeling but i dont want to pay 200$-300$+ for it on ebay. i cant find one in Montreal city , not even in marketplace or kijiji.

Thanks again for your long answer Bloodem, even if i dont buy a atlhon xp for now, all you said is in my memory for always, thanks for great advices. and thanks in advance for my others questions in this post. I really appreciated it, your time , your effort and your answer 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 10:52:

Wow thanks. But I prefer to keep a intel cpu like P3 for personal retro feeling vs Atlhon XP, i explained it more precisely later on my post.. But i will keep my pentium 233 mmx and use it mostly for Dos gaming and using it a little for windows 98 games.

I know, I also wanted the same many years ago (which is why I have many Pentium 3 PCs.... too many), and they are fine, stable and cool (especially the slot 1 P3s which are extra-cool 😁). However, they are not very flexible, which is why I find myself using them less often than I thought I would.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 10:52:

And i will buy the Pentium 3 500mhz and keep it mostly for Windows 98 games and use the voodoo 3 with it. and using it a little for dos games. I would have buy the P2 266mhz too for 40$, but i dont think it will be necessary at all. i cant find any advantage of having it vs my p233mmx and p3 500mhz? do you know any good use i can do with it ? maybe keep the p2 slot 1 cpu for my p3 rig if needed. but im not sure the p2 266mhz has slot 1..

I would suggest not buying the Pentium 3 500 (which is probably a Katmai, not the Coppermine 500E). Or if you do, make sure that the motherboard at least supports Coppermine CPUs, so you can upgrade at a later time. You can find some nice Slot 1 700 MHz Coppermine CPUs on eBay for a very low price. A Voodoo 3 scales well even up to a Pentium 3 running at 1 GHz. Whatever you decide to buy, make sure that the motherboard has the Intel 440BX chipset - don't settle for anything else 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 10:52:

Ok i will make what you said and keep 2 retro rigs for different things. One for Dos and one for windows 98 games. But most of the games i will play on the Pentium 3 500mhz are Glide games. Probably Need for speed Porsche is one of worst game i will play in term of performance needed. I will try Hot pursuit 2 but i dont care much about the performance. By the way i played Porsche unleashed with a 3dfx Banshee in 2000-2001 so i should be ok in 16 bit colors washout. i think this game is Glide compatible ? Right ? BUT i will add a AGP card like a Geforce card 32mb maybe geforce 4 mx. I think i can still use my voodoo3 pci and a geforce agp in the same system ? right ? i could swap them in the bios when computer boot. is it right ? Thanks for your Athlon XP idea , i had a Athlon XP 2000 several years ago, but i dont want it anymore. I really want a Pentium 3 Cpu for retro feeling. I even want a board i can switch between Pii and Piii cpu in Slot 1 just for fun. If P3 500mhz is not enough in my windows 98 games i will buy a 1.4ghz P3 cpu too. Do you know if the Dell XPS T600 or T500 can accept a P2 cpu ? it should because its a SE440bx from intel, but im not sure bios will support it. Nobody never tested a P2 cpu on it.

The problem with NFS Porsche is not only the 16 bit color, but the very low resolution textures on the Voodoo cards. They will run fine, however those low-res textures will look very blurry. The game is Glide compatible, however it's clearly optimized for Direct3D (by the time NFS Porsche came out, Glide was almost dead). And, yes, you can use a Voodoo 3 PCI with an nVidia card, I tried it myself.
Unfortunately, I have no personal experience with the Dell XPS T600/T500, so not sure what to tell you. 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 10:52:

I didnt find any problem yet. But i prefer to use the fx 5200 in my p233mmx for dos because of picture quality ? is it a problem ? i didnt see any slowdown or stuttering yet ? thanks for let me know. but maybe i will use the banshee with it.

The GeForce FX series is fine for DOS (although, I did find games where they exhibit issues, but nothing serious).

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 10:52:

But maybe someday i will buy a Athlon XP or P4 or a 80486 or 80386... But for now i will use the p233mmx and a P3 system. I would like to have a 80486 for retro feeling but i dont want to pay 200$-300$+ for it on ebay. i cant find one in Montreal city , not even in marketplace or kijiji.

My recommendation is to skip the P4 for Windows 98 retro gaming. It's a fine CPU and a great, stable platform, but there's really nothing special about it and it's nowhere near as flexible as an Athlon XP / Athlon 64. I would suggest that you buy an Athlon XP / Athlon 64 PC as fast as possible, because prices are increasing rapidly (due to the reasons that I mentioned in my previous post - people are buying them like crazy and VIA motherboards are getting more and more rare).

Thanks a lot! I read forum posts on google and the Dell T500-T600 work with coopermine with A11 bios and they work with 1.1-1.4ghz cpu. About Porsche unleashed, i will play it with The Nvidia geforce card on the P3 500mhz if it looks like crap 🤣! Is it possible to use the voodoo3 pci and fx 5200 pci on the same P3 system ? but i dont think it will work correctly.. If the Banshee Picture quality is similar to fx 5200 in dos i will keep my Banshee in the p233mmx. I will forget about the P4 and go to Athlon xp 64 next time i buy another retro rig . And about the 128mb uncaching with my p233mmx, if i mostly use the p233mmx for dos , does it still worth it to buy a 64mb edo ram dimm ? i didnt notice any slowdown or stuttering in any dos game yet, not even with duke nukem 3d in 1024x768. thanks for that answer i can save 40$ if the impact is only in windows 98. I know dos detect only 64mb ram but im not sure it changes something about the 128mb uncaching. And about a P2 Cpu, does it have any use if i already have a P233mmx and a P3 500mhz ? Im curious, does a Pentium ii run really better than a P3 in dos ? I know my p233mmx beats them all. And i hope the P3 can runs all DOS Glide games as good as the P233mmx. Otherwise i will have to keep the banshee in the p233mmx for dos glide games. Dont feel obligated to answer all questions. Only answer what you really want to 😀 THANKS !!!!!

A last one:

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-19, 11:55:

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 10:52:

Wow thanks. But I prefer to keep a intel cpu like P3 for personal retro feeling vs Atlhon XP, i explained it more precisely later on my post.. But i will keep my pentium 233 mmx and use it mostly for Dos gaming and using it a little for windows 98 games.

I know, I also wanted the same many years ago (which is why I have many Pentium 3 PCs.... too many), and they are fine, stable and cool (especially the slot 1 P3s which are extra-cool 😁). However, they are not very flexible, which is why I find myself using them less often than I thought I would.

What do you means by less flexible ? Do you means it difficults to slow down for dos ? or any others reasons ?

With the p233mmx if i disabled cache in bios, even doom is not playable. it seems it runs like on a 386sx, but i will test more on this and i have to see your Phil's youtube video too.

You don't need to use the FX 5200 and Banshee in the same system, just because of DOS image quality. The banshee also has very good, sharp image in both DOS and Windows.
And no, you will not notice a difference in DOS if you downgrade to 64 MB of RAM. However, it's hard for me to believe that you noticed no stuttering in Duke Nukem at 1024x768 on a Pentium MMX 😁 From my experience, the performance is acceptable only at 640x480 (and even for 640 x 480, there are areas where there are noticeable frame drops).
And regarding the P2 CPU, as I said before, just skip it 😀 Now, on the other hand, if you find a Super Socket 7 / AMD K6-2/3+ system for cheap, go for it! 😀

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-19, 12:22:

You don't need to use the FX 5200 and Banshee in the same system, just because of DOS image quality. The banshee also has very good, sharp image in both DOS and Windows.
And no, if you will not notice a difference in DOS if you downgrade to 64 MB of RAM. However, it's hard for me to believe that you noticed no stuttering in Duke Nukem at 1024x768 on a Pentium MMX 😁 From my experience, the performance is acceptable only at 640x480 (and even for 640 x 480, there are areas where there are noticeable frame drops).
And regarding the P2 CPU, as I said before, just skip it 😀 Now, on the other hand, if you find a Super Socket 7 / AMD K6-2/3+ system for cheap, go for it! 😀

Can you read my earlier post i just edited the post and add a question. thanks and i added something too about dos in glide.

About Duke Nukem 3D i will try it again in 1024 x 768 and let you know. i just try the first stage only yet. To me i didnt see any stuttering or slowdown. But i will test again. Thanks

Sorry my english is not 100% perfect, but i dont need the 64 ram dimm downgrade for dos gaming only ? is it right? Thanks

Note: i wont bother you anymore LoL! because i really have to go sleep for some hours ! 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 12:13:

What do you means by less flexible ? Do you means it difficults to slow down for dos ? or any others reasons ?

Yes, the Pentium 3 basically has two speeds in DOS: very fast and extremely slow (when you disable the cache). Well, when pairing the P3 with a VIA chipset you could gain a bit more flexibility by using Throttle, but it's still not enough (and, as I mentioned before, for the Pentium 3 I would always recommend the Intel 440BX chipset anyway, just because it's such an iconic and stable chipset). And as for Windows, most Intel Pentium 3 CPUs (particularly those below 1 GHz), are only suitable for Windows 98/Me (maybe Windows 2000), but I would definitely avoid Windows XP. On the other hand, an Athlon XP (not to mention the Athlon 64), when paired with the right motherboard/chipset - as described in my previous replies, can work great on Windows XP, 2000, 98/Me and DOS. So, to me, these are very engaging platforms, while the Pentium 3 platforms are good for what they are... but I got bored of them very fast, which is why I rarely play with them anymore. 😀

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-19, 12:13:

And i hope the P3 can runs all DOS Glide games as good as the P233mmx. Otherwise i will have to keep the banshee in the p233mmx for dos glide games.

They should work with Pentium 3 very well, didn't encounter blocker issues during my tests. Either way, you should keep the Banshee in the P MMX, it's a great pair for that CPU. 😀

Now im confused ! I dont know which one i want, i just found a Dell Optiplex gx150 P3 933mhz for 50$. But it has no ISA slot, and i want one for buy a isa soundcard in future. I want to play mostly win98 games and voodoo3 glide games with my P3, but i still want it to have some good dos compatibility with dos games.Im not sure i can get it slow as needed with caches or utilities its still a 933mhz. Its a Socket 370. I dont want perfect compatibility with all dos games , but at least for most of them. i will still use mostly my p233mmx for dos.

Or for 50$ too, i can buy the Dell T500 or T600 at P3 500mjz-600mhz with 1 isa slot with cpu in slot1

or this for 50$ too: P3 500mhz, 1 isa slot, but Chipset is BXcel PC100, PII-3726MT (M726MT) AMPTRON Motherboard. Cpu in Slot1 (P2 cpu compatible) ( i know its not a intel chipset.. )

I have 3 choices for now. I can buy this Dell optiplex gx150 tomorrow or wait 1 to 3 weeks for the 2 others choice. But i can be patient. I just want the best one for my personal need.

i just looks more in detail the Dell 150gx on youtube and google.. Its a small pc computer with small case, i dont think voodoo3 will got it in correctly. it only have 1 agp slot and 1 pci slot and i think its for small pci and agp card only. i dont think its a good idea to buy that one. i have at least 3 cards to put in it , so i will forget about this one.

I dont trust much that BXcel PC100 M726MT chipset from the other P3, on Vogons and others forums i read mixed results and opinions about it.

I will probably buy the Dell T500-600 but the guy is busy for 1 or 2 weeks , he has to drive 1h30 to come in my city, but he is sure to come and he reserved it for me. I will take this one, and if in future i find a better P3 cpu and board i will exchange it..

I just want to let you know guys ! Have nice day !

Buy all of them?

I really like Pentium II systems myself and find them to be great for 1990's DOS games as well.

Oh my god 😀 I went to a big PC warehouse and i bought 5 computer and 7 separate videocard and others things for a 100$ deal.
1x Compaq Presario 5660 P2 450mhz. 1x P2 266mhz 1x P3 in Socket 370 dont know the speed mhz yet, with tnt2 32mb, 2 others pc not tested yet and i dont know what they are but they are old. i bought all videocard for 3$ each: geforce 4 mx440, geforce 2 mx 200, tnt2 16 mb, tnt 2 16mb, S3 trio 2d 3d , 1 x ati rage 128.
In all the warehouse they seems to have only 5 vintage computer i bought all of them. But they need to do cleaning to find more they will call me in a few days. the place is full of pc case everywhere a lot of row , really we cant see every pc case , they need a cleaning.
I will talk to you guys later, in some hours or a few days with my results 😀 until now the 3 pc i tested works.
and all videocards works . im very happy 😀
i think my favorite one is the P2 450mhz.

Now you're starting to sound more like a regular Vogons member. Nicely done!

Thanks ! 😀

I just found a isa soundcard in the p2 266mhz , no its not a original Sound Blaster card 😉 but i read about it on google, and its seems a VERY good one for dos and windows, sound blaster 2.0 compatibility.. they say one of the best Sound Blaster clone. They talk about a real opl3 but i think its a opl3 clone..

This is the soundcard:

Ess Audiodrive ES1869F

Do you think its better than my isa Crystal CS4236 in my pentium 233mmx ? especially for dos games ? thanks for your opinion. i will test both in my p233mmx soon enough. but the crystal has a good opl3 clone too.

I don't know if it's better, but one good thing that ESS Audiodrive soundcards have is that they don't require any drivers or TSRs for DOS. They just work.

devius wrote on 2020-08-21, 10:14:

I don't know if it's better, but one good thing that ESS Audiodrive soundcards have is that they don't require any drivers or TSRs for DOS. They just work.

That's not true.

A PnP ESS card like his 1869F won't produce any sound in pure DOS unless it has been initialized. You need to load ESSCFG.EXE to initialize the card at the very least, and optionally run ESSVOL.EXE to unmute CD audio. Neither of those programs is a TSR though. It may be different with an older, non-PnP ESS card where jumpers are used for configuration.

Right, the only ESS sound chip I used for any extended amount of time was 688 and that one definitely didn't require anything to produce sound on the computer it was installed in.

Still, ESS sound cards tens to be quite easy to configure and use overall from the other ones I tested.

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-20, 21:28:

Oh my god :) I went to a big PC warehouse and i bought 5 computer and 7 separate videocard and others things for a 100$ deal. 1 […]
Show full quote

Oh my god 😀 I went to a big PC warehouse and i bought 5 computer and 7 separate videocard and others things for a 100$ deal.
1x Compaq Presario 5660 P2 450mhz. 1x P2 266mhz 1x P3 in Socket 370 dont know the speed mhz yet, with tnt2 32mb, 2 others pc not tested yet and i dont know what they are but they are old. i bought all videocard for 3$ each: geforce 4 mx440, geforce 2 mx 200, tnt2 16 mb, tnt 2 16mb, S3 trio 2d 3d , 1 x ati rage 128.
In all the warehouse they seems to have only 5 vintage computer i bought all of them. But they need to do cleaning to find more they will call me in a few days. the place is full of pc case everywhere a lot of row , really we cant see every pc case , they need a cleaning.
I will talk to you guys later, in some hours or a few days with my results 😀 until now the 3 pc i tested works.
and all videocards works . im very happy 😀
i think my favorite one is the P2 450mhz.

Wow, you are on a roll! 😁 Congrats!
Depending on what motherboard that Pentium 2 PC has, it might also support Coppermine CPUs. So great find, indeed!
The GeForce 4 MX 440 is a great (and quite underrated) card, but you will definitely want a very fast CPU for it, as even the fastest Pentium 3 Coppermine will be a bottleneck. In many Windows 98 games it scales very well up to a Pentium 4 3+ GHz/Athlon 64. And since it's a 2002 card, its newer drivers have a bigger CPU overhead - so, on a Pentium 3, in some situations, it's actually quite a bit slower than a GeForce 2 GTS/Pro with their older drivers. However, if you want to try out very high resolutions such as 1600 x 1200 in older games, it will be fast and smooth (tested myself on a Pentium 3 Coppermine 700 MHz, overclocked to 933 MHz).

bloodem wrote on 2020-08-21, 15:33:

Wow, you are on a roll! :D Congrats! Depending on what motherboard that Pentium 2 PC has, it might also support Coppermine CPUs. […]
Show full quote

renejr902 wrote on 2020-08-20, 21:28:

Oh my god :) I went to a big PC warehouse and i bought 5 computer and 7 separate videocard and others things for a 100$ deal. 1 […]
Show full quote

Oh my god 😀 I went to a big PC warehouse and i bought 5 computer and 7 separate videocard and others things for a 100$ deal.
1x Compaq Presario 5660 P2 450mhz. 1x P2 266mhz 1x P3 in Socket 370 dont know the speed mhz yet, with tnt2 32mb, 2 others pc not tested yet and i dont know what they are but they are old. i bought all videocard for 3$ each: geforce 4 mx440, geforce 2 mx 200, tnt2 16 mb, tnt 2 16mb, S3 trio 2d 3d , 1 x ati rage 128.
In all the warehouse they seems to have only 5 vintage computer i bought all of them. But they need to do cleaning to find more they will call me in a few days. the place is full of pc case everywhere a lot of row , really we cant see every pc case , they need a cleaning.
I will talk to you guys later, in some hours or a few days with my results 😀 until now the 3 pc i tested works.
and all videocards works . im very happy 😀
i think my favorite one is the P2 450mhz.

Wow, you are on a roll! 😁 Congrats!
Depending on what motherboard that Pentium 2 PC has, it might also support Coppermine CPUs. So great find, indeed!
The GeForce 4 MX 440 is a great (and quite underrated) card, but you will definitely want a very fast CPU for it, as even the fastest Pentium 3 Coppermine will be a bottleneck. In many Windows 98 games it scales very well up to a Pentium 4 3+ GHz/Athlon 64. And since it's a 2002 card, its newer drivers have a bigger CPU overhead - so, on a Pentium 3, in some situations, it's actually quite a bit slower than a GeForce 2 GTS/Pro with their older drivers. However, if you want to try out very high resolutions such as 1600 x 1200 in older games, it will be fast and smooth (tested myself on a Pentium 3 Coppermine 700 MHz, overclocked to 933 MHz).

Yeah im on a roll ! 😀

My father and me repaired all non working the computers. These are the computers:

- Pentium2 266 mhz Slot 1, Max 66mhz board fsb, LX440 so no P3. Generic case pc.

- Pentium 2 450mhz, Slot 1, 100mhz fsb board, Compaq Presario 5660, its seems a custom 440bx board, nobody seems to have tried a P3 on it. The bios on it really bad, the more strangest one i have seen in my life, no boot order option !! i never saw that. Maybe i can check for bios update. But its still my favorite computer among the five computers.

- Pentium III 733mhz, Socket 370 , Generic case , 1 isa slot. Gigabyte board.

- Pentium III 800E, the board is slot 1, but the cpu is a socket 370 one, but on a socket package in Slot 1. 1 isa slot. Asus board P3V..

- P4 2.20ghz.

( I can have a Pentium Pro 200 for 20$ and a compaq Pentium 166mhz (no mmx) for 20$, and a old compaq Celeron for 20$ too. i didnt bought them yet) ( The pentium pro seems to have a good value on ebay, its seem rare. is it worth it? im not a pentium pro fan Lol! ) ( maybe i will have a 80386 for 50$ canadian, for me it worth 50$ , its very expensive on ebay, the shop guy will call me next week when he find it.) ( since 20 years i have like a hundread of 8086, 286, 386, 486 ram memory dimms, i dont know the value , does the memory ram dimms have high money value ?)

In PCs i found a TNT2 M64 32mb, Radeon 9250 128mb , Ati rage 128. i just saw that Geforce 440 MX is SE, unfortunately, it should be less powerful.

I put the Geforce 2 mx 200 in the P2 450mhz and the Geforce 4 mx 400 SE in the P3 800E mhz.

I cant wait to try the ESS isa soundcard 😀 i will try it in the P2 450mhz or in a P3.. I really want a ISA authentic Sound Blaster 16 with real OPL3, but i will wait a few months.

I already dual install the P2 450 and P3 800E mhz with dos 6.22 and win98, but i didnt do a lot of tests yet. i will tell you more soon. 😀