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Maxing Intel P45 memory

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Reply 40 of 58, by Tetrium

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-10-22, 07:34:

Chrome and modern web browsing in general is a special topic. They consume RAM in large quantity.

Guilty as charged :'(

I try to avoid having to use the net with any of my non-main rigs, mainly because of this (and it keeps the other rigs lean(er) and clean(er) 😜 ).

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Reply 41 of 58, by dr_st

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Tetrium wrote on 2020-10-22, 11:49:

While your advice is generally speaking correct, you cannot deny the interest in wanting to max out any particular system, which imo is a scenario within reality.
Having said that, I too have looked into getting larger sized DDR2 modules and these seemed harder to find in larger sizes.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-10-22, 12:05:

Those articles are not about RAM and the experience you claim of this knowledge to be generic and publicly widely accepted as fact is untrue.

Those posts you're replying to are from almost 2 years ago. Must be fun beating a dead horse, eh? 🤣

What I learned from this thread is that it's much easier to get 4GB DDR2 desktop RAM that works with AMD chipsets, than with Intel chipsets.

4GB DDR2 laptop sticks are much easier to find, albeit expensive.

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Reply 42 of 58, by Tetrium

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oohms wrote on 2019-02-10, 00:58:
Overclocking memory does get tested at their rated speeds.. I have a set of OCZ (lol) pc9600 reapers rated at 5-5-5 and they do […]
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The Serpent Rider wrote:

This has nothing to do with "black markets". OCZ was just pushing chips too far without proper testing, which eventually lead to their downfall. OCZ, Corsair and many other manufacturers of that kind mostly sell preoverclocked memory. Overclocking is always a lottery.

The Serpent Rider wrote:

you can get ddr2 1200mhz in 2gb sticks

They're mediocre at best. Practically none of that memory is capable of doing 1200mhz with 5-5-5-15, only 6-6-6-18 (premium modules) or worse. Although it does not matter, because 775 platform can't make use of such high clocks anyway.

Overclocking memory does get tested at their rated speeds.. I have a set of OCZ (lol) pc9600 reapers rated at 5-5-5 and they do that speed fine, but not on all motherboards. Once you get to the very fastest ratings, the motherboards and user experience becomes the limiting factor..

Either way.. after 10+ years, a lot of ram modules seem to fail because of old age.. i've thrown out 20+gb of DDR2 of all sorts of brands/speed ratings

The funny thing is, at some point I did get some memory and one of the modules was a single DDR1 module from OCZ (lol) and the heatspreader had started to let go on one side.
Reckon this could be due to old age the glue holding the heatspreaders in place might have started to (perhaps invisibly) started to fail?

This will probably be not the full story though, even if it were true. Just wanted to mention it since we were on the topic and I remembered it 😜

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Reply 43 of 58, by Tetrium

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dr_st wrote on 2020-10-22, 12:11:
Those posts you're replying to are from almost 2 years ago. Must be fun beating a dead horse, eh? :lol: […]
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Tetrium wrote on 2020-10-22, 11:49:

While your advice is generally speaking correct, you cannot deny the interest in wanting to max out any particular system, which imo is a scenario within reality.
Having said that, I too have looked into getting larger sized DDR2 modules and these seemed harder to find in larger sizes.

Tetrium wrote on 2020-10-22, 12:05:

Those articles are not about RAM and the experience you claim of this knowledge to be generic and publicly widely accepted as fact is untrue.

Those posts you're replying to are from almost 2 years ago. Must be fun beating a dead horse, eh? 🤣

What I learned from this thread is that it's much easier to get 4GB DDR2 desktop RAM that works with AMD chipsets, than with Intel chipsets.

4GB DDR2 laptop sticks are much easier to find, albeit expensive.

Fair enough, but it's barely older than 1 1/2 years btw and one of those that you mention is an old reply, is in fact from today.
I don't get your fun beating a dead horse reply though, since I had simply overlooked and it's in no way some kind of hobby of mine 😜

I kinda skipped the DDR2 altogether, so I don't know about the details of the motherboards that used them. I am however fairly sure that very few (if any) used DDR2 laptop sticks which is somewhat irrelevant to OP's original question.

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Reply 44 of 58, by The Serpent Rider

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Quick summary:
512 Mb/1 Gb DDR2 modules - very good overclocking potential. Micron based modules conquered low timings (4-4-4-12) at 1+ Ghz and 1.3+ Ghz with more relaxed timings. May be unreliable though, due to very high voltage required to achieve such good results.
2 Gb DDR2 modules - some overclocking potential, most good modules can achieve +/- 1100 Mhz at 5-5-5-15 or 900 at 4-4-4-12. Some premium modules from vendors like Patriot and OCZ made possible 1200+ Mhz at 6-6-6-18. Usually will work with 2.0-2.1v at maximum stable clocks, which is safe for prolonged use.
4 Gb DDR2 modules - mostly incompatible with Socket 775, overclocking may vary from bad to mediocre, but some can achieve +/- 1 Ghz. Apparently some vendors made 4 Gb PC6400 modules which are in fact compatible with 775, but specs aren't very promising and they are not easy to find.

So as I've said before, if you absolutely need 16 Gb of RAM on your 775 system you should pick DDR3 motherboard with any good and cheap DDR3 memory, like Samsung for example. The cost of a motherboard with cheap DDR3 memory will probably still be less than 4 sticks of mediocre DDR2 4 Gb modules, assuming you can find them. And if you want to get something more XP oriented, you can pick DDR2 1 Gb memory modules with low timings.

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Reply 45 of 58, by mockingbird

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-26, 19:09:

4 Gb DDR2 modules - mostly incompatible with Socket 775, overclocking may vary from bad to mediocre, but some can achieve +/- 1 Ghz. Apparently some vendors made 4 Gb PC6400 modules which are in fact compatible with 775, but specs aren't very promising and they are not easy to find.

4GB DDR2 ECC modules (and again, not Registered, not FB, just ECC) will work perfectly fine in Asus DDR2 boards (P35/P45, perhaps even 965 - I have 4 x 2GB ECC modules in my P5B - I didn't test 4GB modules)...

If you want I'm happy to provide photo evidence... I haven't tried overclocking though. Obviously it's preferable to spend more on the motherboard and get DDR3 because you'll get higher memory clocks/performance.

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Reply 46 of 58, by debs3759

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mockingbird wrote on 2020-12-27, 00:13:
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-26, 19:09:

4 Gb DDR2 modules - mostly incompatible with Socket 775, overclocking may vary from bad to mediocre, but some can achieve +/- 1 Ghz. Apparently some vendors made 4 Gb PC6400 modules which are in fact compatible with 775, but specs aren't very promising and they are not easy to find.

4GB DDR2 ECC modules (and again, not Registered, not FB, just ECC) will work perfectly fine in Asus DDR2 boards (P35/P45, perhaps even 965 - I have 4 x 2GB ECC modules in my P5B - I didn't test 4GB modules)...

If you want I'm happy to provide photo evidence... I haven't tried overclocking though. Obviously it's preferable to spend more on the motherboard and get DDR3 because you'll get higher memory clocks/performance.

If you haven't tried 4GB DDR2 modules, how can you say categorically that they work? I hope to try 4 x 4GB on an Asus Commando board at some point (although the manual says max 4 x 2GB, so I don't hold out high hopes - same as the Maximus Extreme, which says max 4 x 2GB DDR3, but I will try 4 x 4GB)

Reply 47 of 58, by The Serpent Rider

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If you want I'm happy to provide photo evidence...

Which is not evidence of working 4 Gb modules though.

I haven't tried overclocking though.

ECC memory rarely used chips with good overclocking or low timings. So even if you can find cheap, available and compatible DDR2 ECC modules, which is doubtful, you are still stuck with very mediocre memory.

same as the Maximus Extreme, which says max 4 x 2GB DDR3

Intel chipsets can work fine with 4 Gb DDR3 modules. No idea how Nvidia MCH will behave, but probably fine too.

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Reply 49 of 58, by mockingbird

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debs3759 wrote on 2020-12-27, 01:05:

If you haven't tried 4GB DDR2 modules, how can you say categorically that they work? I hope to try 4 x 4GB on an Asus Commando board at some point (although the manual says max 4 x 2GB, so I don't hold out high hopes - same as the Maximus Extreme, which says max 4 x 2GB DDR3, but I will try 4 x 4GB)

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-27, 09:09:

Which is not evidence of working 4 Gb modules though.

I should clarify: I did not try them on the 965 chipset, but only on the P35. I do currently have 4 x 2GB DDR2 ECC modules in my daily driver which is an Asus P5B (965), but I did in fact try the 4x4GB ECC modules in a dumpster find Asus P5K-E.

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ECC memory rarely used chips with good overclocking or low timings. So even if you can find cheap, available and compatible DDR2 ECC modules, which is doubtful, you are still stuck with very mediocre memory.

I won 6 x 4GB of these modules for a $1 bid in 2017. One of the sticks was defective, but the rest work fine.

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Reply 51 of 58, by mockingbird

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-27, 19:08:

Which chips?

Nothing special, just bog standard DDR2 800 6-6-6 memory... Single row, double sided 256Mx8 (plus 1 ECC chip per side totalling 18 chips instead of 16... So DDR2 "ECC" memory doesn't use special ICs, they just have extra ones and a modified EEPROM).

I have also used DDR3 ECC memory on newer MSI boards (Ivy Bridge and newer).

All the manufacturer has to do is tell the BIOS to ignore the ECC flag in the memory EEPROM. I reckon someone talented can hack older motherboard BIOS for this.

Again: NOT PC2-6400P or PC2-6400R... Those are entirely different animals.

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Reply 52 of 58, by The Serpent Rider

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DDR2 800 6-6-6 memory

Oh, can they work at 5-5-5-15 at least?

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Reply 53 of 58, by mockingbird

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-27, 19:53:

DDR2 800 6-6-6 memory

Oh, can they work at 5-5-5-15 at least?

I didn't try, but I doubt it. These are early pre-2010 chips, so probably not a very mature stepping.

I don't want to mess with it too much because these chipsets already dislike having all four slots filled as it is.

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Reply 54 of 58, by The Serpent Rider

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These are early pre-2010 chips

DDR2 memory was mostly dropped after 2010, so there are no innovations or more mature revisions.

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Reply 55 of 58, by pentiumspeed

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Interesting, I have P5K too, was my daily driver for nearly 7 years, still have it. Now bios modified to take xeon, works well.

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Reply 56 of 58, by mockingbird

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-12-27, 20:52:

These are early pre-2010 chips

DDR2 memory was mostly dropped after 2010, so there are no innovations or more mature revisions.

I'll give it a shot for you... Gotta get an OS installed first.

pentiumspeed wrote on 2020-12-27, 20:59:

Interesting, I have P5K too, was my daily driver for nearly 7 years, still have it. Now bios modified to take xeon, works well.

Gonna retire the P5B + L5240 soon in favor of a 7th gen Core i3... Gotta prepare a Windows XP installation for it first.

The P5K-E + E5450 and 16GB RAM is going to replace an old Vostro 420 system with a Q9650 (no performance difference here but the Vostro will not accept more than 8GB. The Vostro doesn't accept the Xeon mod either, so the Q9650 can be sold off after the upgrade)... The vostro is actually a P45 so technically it's a downgrade to P35... But there have been rumours that the P35 and the P45 chipset are actually the same thing.

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Reply 57 of 58, by dr_st

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mockingbird wrote on 2020-12-27, 21:20:

But there have been rumours that the P35 and the P45 chipset are actually the same thing.

P45 is a die-shrink of the P35, as far as I remember. Feature-wise there are indeed very similar. P45 offers PCI-Express 2.0 and slightly higher native FSB/RAM speeds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_c … Core_2_chipsets

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Reply 58 of 58, by The Serpent Rider

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P35 is strictly 16x PCI-E, while P45 can be configured as 8x/8x.

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