september0451 wrote on 2020-12-16, 05:52:Picked up my family's old Aptiva from the corner of my parents basement last week. Still had all the original bundled software […]
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Picked up my family's old Aptiva from the corner of my parents basement last week. Still had all the original bundled software so I was able to do a factory reset on it. I have a few bits of hardware I'd like to use for upgrades, but I'm not sure what might be appropriate.. or compatible.
Specs on release:
Model 2176-C3X
Pentium 133 MHz
16 MB Ram
ATI 3d Rage chip (2 MB Vram)
2 GB HDD
IBM Mwave soundcard (combo w/ 28.8 fax modem) ISA formfactor
Upgrades my dad Added to it 20 years ago:
64MB of Ram (80 total)
10 GB HDD (Bios only seems to be able to handle 8gb, so it only shows up as an 8gb drive.
The motherboard looks like the expansion slots use a daughterboard that is almost as large as the mainboard. Has 2 PCI slots and 6 ISA slots.
I have a few expansion cards I'd like to try out with it, but I don't know if it's a good idea or not, because some of them are from a different era of Home PCs.
I have 2 soundcards, they are both Sound Blasters, but one is much newer than the other, if they both work I'd love to use the newer one.
Creative Vibra 128 (or CT4810)
Creative Audigy 2 ZS Premium Pro
I think I'd prefer the Audigy (which came out of a Compaq I bought in 2004 that was shipped with Windows XP) as it's 24-bit, and has all the cool gadgets on the front drive bay panel (like Optical and a 1/4" input), but the Audigy 2 doesn't have a 15 Pin MIDI port, which I'd love to use with my Gravis Game Pad or a Microsoft Sidewinder 3D joystick. So it's a tossup there. I can't think of a reason to need Firewire on a computer this old, but I'd gain that I/O with the Audigy.
I also have 2 PCI video cards I could use. But there are tradeoffs there too.
ATI 3D Rage II +DVD
ATI Radeon 7000
The ATI 3D Rage II makes sense for this PC because it's Era appropriate, and a direct upgrade to the embedded graphics chip on the mainboard.
It would be an upgrade to 4mb vram using a Mach64 GT GPU.
The Radeon 7000 is a ridiculous upgrade, but maybe that would be awesome?! It's about 4 years newer than the 3d Rage II, and has 64 MB of Vram.
My main question is, would these videocards be usable in pure Dos? Would the extra ram even be utilized, or would they be mostly just for Windows games? The other issue is that one of the original packaged games that came with the PC was a version of Mechwarrior 2 that was specifically designed for the 3d Rage chip. It looks like a completely different game than the normal retail release, and I love the amped up version, but I don't know if it would work at all with either the 3d Rage II or the Radeon 7000, Or I wonder if the game Might still be able to access the 3D Rage chipset with either of these cards installed?
I've already upgraded the 8X Mitsumi Cd-Rom drive that shipped with the PC with a Creative 24X drive I had in an old box, because the IBM/Mitsumi drive was starting to get faulty, it wouldn't stay open and one of the times I tried to hold it open I actually ripped the whole tray out of the drive ( 🤣 ) so that was an easy upgrade.
I've upgraded to Win98 SE, even though my original plan was to run OS/2 Warp 4 and Dos 5.0 because I think Win98 is probably a more capable OS on this hardware, and will enable the possibilities of the hardware with software that was released all the way up to the turn of the century.
I COULD look for a monitor that supports 800x600 or 1024x768, but I'd probably have to find an LCD that still accepts a VGA cable and in 4:3, but I really just like the nostalgia of a 14" 640x480 CRT, and the one I've got was the original monitor for the system.
What would you do with it? Help me out! I'm hoping to play some sierra classics like Kings Quest, Some Tie Fighter, Doom and Quake, and some older 16/32 bit windows games like the Journeyman Project. I plan to get a capture card for my main computer and stream some stuff on Twitch direct from the Aptiva. Should be fun.
Networking would make things a lot easier. Is there a way to get modern broadband into it? Or at least something with a CAT5 cable? I've got the Win98 Mass storage drivers, I hope they install nicely, but I have to burn them onto a CD to get them on the machine, Once that's done I should be able to use a flash drive since it does have a single USB 1.1 port, but I'd love to be able to just download software directly from the internet if I can. I would assume that kind of thing will only exist in PCI form factor, but If I could find an ISA expansion card for CAT5 networking, I'd be gold, because I don't think my ISP will ever support dial-up. Same goes for the 15pin Midi port for the game controller, then choosing between the Audigy 2 and the Vibra would be no competition.
Let's see...
"My main question is, would these videocards be usable in pure Dos? Would the extra ram even be utilized, or would they be mostly just for Windows games? The other issue is that one of the original packaged games that came with the PC was a version of Mechwarrior 2 that was specifically designed for the 3d Rage chip. It looks like a completely different game than the normal retail release, and I love the amped up version, but I don't know if it would work at all with either the 3d Rage II or the Radeon 7000, Or I wonder if the game Might still be able to access the 3D Rage chipset with either of these cards installed?"
Usable? Yes, at least assuming the extra card would be set as primary by BIOS, because DOS just uses whatever adapter BIOS uses as binary.
As for extra RAM: no, no difference. 2MB RAM is enough for 800x600@24b colour, or 1024x768@16b colour. There are no DOS games that exceed that, in fact anything over 800x600@8b (256 colours), which only needs 512kB, is exceptional.
In WIndows, you need to distinguish between 2D and3D. In 2D, it's simply a matter of framebuffer size, so resolution vs colour depth. 2MB vs 4MB is (assuming you're doing max 1024x768 on desktop) is the difference between 16b and 24b colour. It does not significantly affect performance. In 3D you need additional buffers, but there it's quite simple: Radeon 7000 has far more than would be needed, Rage far less - except for specific Rage title, which definitely runs on the onboard 2MB adapter.
For DOS the main issue is VESA compatibility. ATi chips are slightly below average there (sideways scrolling in SVGA titles can be very choppy), but all your options are ATi, so nothing to choose there.
"I've upgraded to Win98 SE, even though my original plan was to run OS/2 Warp 4 and Dos 5.0 because I think Win98 is probably a more capable OS on this hardware, and will enable the possibilities of the hardware with software that was released all the way up to the turn of the century."
Hang on... you were talking about pure DOS earlier. What's it going to be? Tbh I really wouldn't run Win98SE and software up to turn of the millennium on this. Yes, it's accurate in terms of what you probably did (my mother had a similar Aptiva P90 and did just that), but there's a reason people were so desperate for an upgrade back then. This is a late 1995/early 1996 system, and in the 1990s a few years mattered massively in performance. It's a matter of personal choice, but I far prefer to run older software than hardware (=situation when system was new and felt amazing) than newer software on hardware (=situation when system was ageing and you were frustratedly saving up for replacement). Technically it could run Unreal Tournament, but you're not going to enjoy it... I have DOS-only or DOS+Win3.1 builds up to 350MHz, in fact my main DOS build was a P133 until recently - as I find that pretty much the sweet spot for late DOS games I play. It would also be sufficient for Win95, but even though it will run Win98SE, it won't run games from Win98SE-era well. As for Warp 4, that's a curiosity, and will do fine on this.
Also, optimal choices for Win98 might not be so good for DOS. Iirc these Aptivas had an OPTi Viper-M chipset, which was slow by 1996-standards. I don't recall what its cacheable limit was, but 64MB is likely. With 80MB RAM you're over that limit. In Win98, you really can use that RAM to avoid swapping to disk, so even though your most-used RAM isn't cached (DOS and Win9x use RAM top-down), performance will be better with 80MB than with 64MB. In DOS however you are never even coming close to that much RAM usage, so there is no benefit >64MB, and the loss of L2 caching will give you a performance hit (about 5% with PLB, less with asynch cache). But this would be something to test with cachechk - run it with 80MB and 64MB and compare results. Maybe the Viper-M could cache more. There might also be a WB/WT setting in BIOS, where choosing WT will double cacheable area, but with IBM OEM BIOS that would surprise me.
"I COULD look for a monitor that supports 800x600 or 1024x768, but I'd probably have to find an LCD that still accepts a VGA cable and in 4:3, but I really just like the nostalgia of a 14" 640x480 CRT, and the one I've got was the original monitor for the system."
Oh? My mum's old Aptiva P90 came with an IBM G50, which was no great monitor, but could easily do 1024x768@72Hz or 800x600@85Hz. I'd be surprised if your newer Aptiva had a monitor that could only do 640x480. Which monitor is it exactly? In any event, if you want to keep 640x480, there is no benefit whatsoever to upgrading video chip or memory, as at that resolution 1MB would be enough for 24b true colour, so 2MB is enough for 3D (as the onboard Rage shows).
"What would you do with it? Help me out! I'm hoping to play some sierra classics like Kings Quest, Some Tie Fighter, Doom and Quake, and some older 16/32 bit windows games like the Journeyman Project. I plan to get a capture card for my main computer and stream some stuff on Twitch direct from the Aptiva. Should be fun."
That's a very broad range of games, from 1980s to mid/late 1990s. Sound hardware is the most relevant bit. You currently have an IBM mWave in the system. That is an awful beast to get working properly (at least in Win95, in Win98SE it is natively supported, go figure...), but when it works it gives you decent SBPro emulation, WSS and good MPU-401, plus wavetable in Windows but not DOS. Oh, and awful AdLib. Your alternatives are PCI sound blasters. The "Vibra 128" is just another Ensoniq ES1373-derivative that is basic but gets the job done - but needs TSR drivers in DOS. Audigy2 is the most advanced Win98 sound card, but not a good DOS choice and IMHO belongs better in a P3/Athlon type system with no pretentions at running DOS stuff.
The games you mention:
KQ - I'm assuming you're looking at the SCI remakes from ~1990. They support sound, but only very old standards. AdLib, CMS and MT-32 being the relevant ones. AdLib is theoretically supported by all the sound cards listed, but badly. You want something with real OPL2/3 or a good clone. CMS requires a Game Blaster or early Sound Blaster with the relevant chips. I'd recommend soldering a clone (MUS-1099) yourself if so inclined. MT-32 is great, but costly these days, an external MIDI module, which means you need bug-free MPU-401.
Tie Fighter - highly demanding DOS game. Pushes DOS audio to the limit. In particular showcases MIDI slowdown and hanging note bugs on Soundblaster 16. Needs something with decent MIDI and preferably 16b audio - but at the same time doesn't support WSS (the other 16b standard).
Doom - works with everything. Easy.
Quake - audio not challenging (although good MIDI is recommended), but will run slowly on a P133.
Your mWave has awful AdLib emulation and it supports WSS, but not SB16. Good: supports DOS wavetable, TSR driver needed, but only extended memory, no conventional (with 80MB definitely not an issue)
Your Vibra 128 has awful AdLib emulation, can do DOS wavetable but needs big TSR to do so. Supports either SBPro or SB16 depending on driver used (SBPro requires original Ensoniq driver which may or may not work)
Your Audigy2 has generally bad DOS support. AdLib buggy, TSR driver needed that requires EMM386, so no sound at all in titles that need to disable EMM386.
So, actually the mWave isn't too bad, but the other cards have overlapping weakness, so hardly an improvement. What you need is AdLib (real OPL3) and preferably SB16 support. Under DOS you really want ISA cards.
Two approaches:
1) go for 2 cards, keep mWave for MPU-401 and Wavetable, add an early SB16 with real OPL3 for SB16 DA and AdLib.
2) attempt a single card. Because of Tie Fighter a single SB16 really isn't a good idea. A card with ALS100 (non-Plus) would be best option: SBPro2 and SB16 support, bug-free MPU-401 and either a real OPL3 or a 1:1 clone. A card like this with wavetable would be perfect, but hard to find and probably crap wavetable. Add one of Serdaco's excellent wavetable modules instead.
In both cases KQ and similar <1993 games would appreciate an MT-32 module, but that's heading down the rabbit hole...
"Networking would make things a lot easier. Is there a way to get modern broadband into it? Or at least something with a CAT5 cable?"
Sure. DOS networking is easy. Look into mTCP. You need a card with packet driver support. Generally 3Com 3C509 are fast, excellently supported and get the job done, but failing that you can get most ISA cards working decently under DOS and there are DOS packet drivers for a lot of PCI cards too. FTP is the protocol to use. Under DOS you want to run the server on the DOS box (mTCP contains an FTP server) so you can use a modern GUI client to move the files there. Under Win9x you can do it either way.