Thanks for the infos, guys. This has been helpful.

Who remembers all the controversy over George Lucas endlessly modifying his SW movies? There is still, as far as I'm aware, no legal way to view the original 1977 film that won all the awards and caused all the buzz.

ETA: I have installed the Realtek audio drivers on my system, replacing the default Microsoft driver, and now have Stereo Mix. Thanks again.

Errius wrote on 2020-12-18, 16:53:

Thanks for the infos, guys. This has been helpful.

Who remembers all the controversy over George Lucas endlessly modifying his SW movies? There is still, as far as I'm aware, no legal way to view the original 1977 film that won all the awards and caused all the buzz.

I was listening to a discussion about this one recently and never understood the whole who shot first argument or that this was the root of it. Lucas and/or his company has done a lot of things I don't agree with (selling out to Disney, making 2 Monkey Island games without Ron Gilbert, constantly ret-conning Star Wars, adding in more pre-story sequels that don't measure up to the originals).

Scary thing is I think this sort of "changing of history" seems to be really common. One other movie that ticks me off like this is Police Academy - the scene right after Lieutenant Harris gets thrown off the dirt bike into the horse has an alternate take that I only ever had on a taped-off-TV VHS as a kid....

Most people only remember a scene where Harris is just walking among the cadets, all silent, but grinning or looking like they are trying to hold in something funny, then he passes Larvell Jones (Michael Winslow) and he "neighs" like a horse and Harris turns and gives the crew a dirty look - end scene

But the alternate take that I thought was awesome was that the scene starts with him whispering to Mahoney "You told no one?" and Mahoney says "Not a soul." And then you see him walk amongs the crew, same shot, all of them looking like they are trying to hold in laughter, again Winslow neighs, and then the awesome, vibrato-voice laiden, slightly poor grammar rant begins....

"None......of you......is going to make it! I am going to keep you here until Just.....before.....graduation day. AND THEN.......I am going to CUT YOU!! I swear it (holds up hand)!" - end scene.

The version of that scene I had on VHS I found way more hilarious than the first one which is just too subtle to my taste.

TBH, I don't really care about the later movies. However the original 1977 Star Wars is hugely important from a film history POV, yet the only place you can see it today - unmodified - is the Library of Congress:

https://mashable.com/2015/12/17/star-wars-ori … ut/?europe=true

Lucas's OCD went into overdrive in the 1990s, but he was already modifying the film in the 1980s. Every new theatrical/home release got messed around with in with some way.

More trends I hated:
-in-game "achievements"
-adding multiplayer modes to single player games.
-over proliferation of multiplayer gaming.

I gave multiplayer more than a fair chance, between the original CounterStrike, CS:GO, MineCraft, and Team Fortress 2. I almost always sucked terribly and always felt like there was one or more cheaters EVERY TIME I played. Seemingly impossible kills, same players with jaw-dropping kill ratios every round, feeling like I got dropped into an unfair, no-win situation every time I gave it another shot. I'm probably just that bad. 😀 Nowadays I just stick with single-player campaigns exclusively because multiplayer no fun for me. I think the main thing that bugged me is the lack of decency in fellow players. It seems more people then not are playing online exclusively because they enjoy being assholes to others.

The console-y-ness of every modern game, where all the controls feel and act like they're mainly designed to be played only with a controller.

clueless1 wrote on 2020-12-18, 19:25:

I gave multiplayer more than a fair chance, between the original CounterStrike, CS:GO, MineCraft, and Team Fortress 2. I almost always sucked terribly and always felt like there was one or more cheaters EVERY TIME I played. Seemingly impossible kills, same players with jaw-dropping kill ratios every round, feeling like I got dropped into an unfair, no-win situation every time I gave it another shot. I'm probably just that bad. 😀

This is kinda why I don't like competitive / deathmatch games. It's also why I "ignore" other players in said games unless they've clearly noticed me and start firing. But, I've often been cussed out for playing that way. You just can't win, heh.

Errius wrote on 2020-12-18, 16:53:

Who remembers all the controversy over George Lucas endlessly modifying his SW movies? There is still, as far as I'm aware, no legal way to view the original 1977 film that won all the awards and caused all the buzz.

Errius wrote on 2020-12-18, 18:14:

However the original 1977 Star Wars is hugely important from a film history POV, yet the only place you can see it today - unmodified - is the Library of Congress

This is off-topic, but I have to ask: I bought the 2006 "Limited Edition" DVD set of Episode IV that came with two DVDs. Disc 1 has the "enhanced" version of the movie and Disc 2 claims to be the original 1977 version. Was that DVD set only sold in Germany or is this, in fact, not the original 1977 version of the movie? Both discs have English, German and Spanish audio tracks. The EAN is 4010232035455 if you want to search for it. Yes, I know that this DVD release has relatively poor video quality on Disc 2, but that's not the point. You obviously either didn't know about this release or you don't consider this (Disc 2) the original version of the movie. So which explanation is correct?

The 2006 DVD is taken from the 1993 Laserdisc which IIRC has modified sound and other differences to the original film.

creepingnet wrote on 2020-12-18, 16:14:

Here's one old trend I DON'T miss......

Flame resistant plastic, particularly on Japanese products (Apple, Nintendo, NEC.....just to name a few). That stuff has the weird tendency to crumble like a cookie. Kind of annoying. I've done so much engineering around that stuff on certain devices I could literally design and build my own enclosures at this point.

Did that change? Today's white plastic isn't going to turn yellow and get brittle anymore? I'll believe it in a couple decades.

It's been mentioned a few times, but I hate that a few days ago I couldn't browse the web comfortably on my Phenom2 3x3.6GHz system. It was incredibly laggy on some sites. What the hell.
I still believe in basic HTML, but there's no way to get the world to go back to it now. It got "old", didn't offer enough exploitsfeatures or something.

I think it's funny that some browser devs bragged about discontinuing support for HTML frames a few years ago, like they were the worst thing ever and it was their duty to ban them, yet modern web sites are still using frames to this day. They just do it in script (like everything else) with 100x the CPU requirements now.

Edit: Why is it that every time I use a commercial web site for a productive purpose, like to read the site's content, or to buy something from them, they think it's a good idea to interupt me with scripted popups that are designed to block me from seeing the page?

shamino wrote on 2020-12-19, 00:00:

It's been mentioned a few times, but I hate that a few days ago I couldn't browse the web comfortably on my Phenom2 3x3.6GHz system. It was incredibly laggy on some sites. What the hell.
I still believe in basic HTML, but there's no way to get the world to go back to it now. It got "old", didn't offer enough exploitsfeatures or something.

I think it's funny that some self righteous browser devs bragged about discontinuing support for HTML frames a few years ago, yet modern web sites are still using frames to this day. They just do it in script (like everything else) with 100x the CPU requirements now.

My two P4 3.x Mhz systems run fine using FirefoxESR in Linux Mint Debian Edition 32-bit.

Errius wrote on 2020-12-18, 03:35:

Related issue: How are people recording Windows audio nowadays? In the XP era you would use the Stereo Mix/"What U Hear" recording device as an audio input. This has been entirely removed from modern Windows versions though.

I normally just launch one of my retro machines when I want to do this, but with more and more websites/programs refusing to run on XP, this is becoming a problem.

Nope.. still there in Windows 10. Must be your sound card drivers that don't have it:

"What U Hear" was/is the Creative-specific buzzword, wasn't it?

Other brands would call it things like "Stereo Mix".

Or not have it in the drivers as an option at all.

Shreddoc wrote on 2020-12-19, 01:12:

"What U Hear" was/is the Creative-specific buzzword, wasn't it?

Last time I saw that was on a SB Live! so I think that it is something driver-related.

I wonder if there is a "fake" sound driver (or passthrough sound driver) that allows you to capture audio. It should be better to capture the audio output from a game without worrying about other programs making sound.

Going back to my hated trends... I should note i-buddy and those all USB thingys that reacted to MSN messenger or other notifications. Goodbye, you won't be missed.

About SaaS and Cyberpunk 2077...

- I hate that trend where you don't own your own software but get it for hire, although I understand that some things (Antivirus, MMORPG) are dynamic and needs money to be updated.

- ...but most games like Cyberpunk 2077 and Fallout 76 are plain broken, not SaaS. You pay for a complete software, not a bug-ridden one and a set of patchs to solve that. It's a shame that another trend is making users think that getting bug-ridden games is normal (also, CD-Project Red has shattered a reputation of making fine games with that release... another hated trend is that EVERY big RPG developer has released broken games lately).

- Other related thing that I hate is that most online games get wasted when developers cease to support them. I mean, I understand that Streamliner (average game, but I liked it) didn't make enough money to keep servers running. I hate that nearly no one releases standalone servers so people that liked it could still play after official servers shut down.

And talking about consoles... am I the only one that thinks that consoles has lost any appeal they had (compared to PC)? I've been gaming from 1985 and at that time (and for some decades) you bought a console, a cartridge and put it to work (almost) instantly. Nowadays you buy a game, and the startup procedure is...
- Turn on the console and boot up the disc.
- Realize that the game needs more space than you have.
- Choose wisely which game will you delete (will your savegames be deleted or spared)?
- Install the disc to your HDD.
- Start the game.
- Wait for your zero-day (or later) patch to install (will it be bigger than the original game?).
- Look at your watch and shut down the console because you should get some sleep or have something else to be done.

It seems like the standard PC installation procedure. Also, because of consoles have fans they're not "silent" devices. Their only advantage is that they're small (are still small enough?) to fit near your TV set and don't need as much configuration as PC... but they're not the same plug'n'play systems as before.

Also there are games like certain Tony Hawks Pro Skater 5 that are unplayable without patches, so when servers shut down the game couldn't be played even if you had the disc. On "old" (and by old I mean pre-networked) consoles you could play as long as your hardware (console and disc) still worked.

A trend that I *hope* is on the decline, and which I hope will decline much further and never come back, is the use of nanny-ish tutorials in games. I have very little patience for them. If the game is actually that complicated then I argue that it should ... *gasp!* .. come with a manual. I'd rather have a manual to read *when I choose* then have these things arbitrarily pop up in the game.
When I'm playing the game I don't want to be bothered. Later on though, maybe I'll take the manual with me to the bathroom or read it in bed or whatever. Then it won't be a chore, the well written manual will be part of the gaming experience that I will enjoy while I'm away from my computer screen. That used to be normal and it worked well IMO.

If they made Super Mario Bros. today, you just know it would be stuffed with popup tutorial messages telling you how to jump on Goombas and kick shells and whatnot.
People complain about Zelda but it wasn't that hard to figure out. I'm grateful that it came with a manual and not an in-game tutorial that would still be annoying us to this day.

I also dislike the trend of using an excessive number of buttons in a game that ought to be simple. That's still popular, unfortunately.

Zup wrote on 2020-12-19, 09:10:

And talking about consoles... am I the only one that thinks that consoles has lost any appeal they had (compared to PC)?

I agree. I'm still a fan of 1980s-early 90s consoles, right up until CDROM and 3D took over. At that point I became a PC guy, and that's still how my preferences are aligned. Old consoles had a unique experience and library, but with modern consoles I see little point in them anymore, just limitations and downsides vs PC.

On the few occasions I see a game on a modern console that appeals to me, it's usually a 2D game that could have been programmed for the Saturn.

I will say though that I'm disappointed with Steam's "Big Picture" interface. They have tried, and in my opinion failed, to make a competitive frontend for HTPC gaming vs the consoles.
I put together a TV-connected gaming PC 1-2 years ago running Steam and I tend to get frustrated with it. You pretty much have to have a mouse and keyboard nearby because the controller interface doesn't reliably work. I had other more specific complaints but it's been so long since I used it that I don't remember the details anymore. I'm willing to bet the XBox and Sony interfaces work a lot better, and that's the one reason they could be appealing if not for all their other downsides.

Zup wrote on 2020-12-19, 09:10:

And talking about consoles... am I the only one that thinks that consoles has lost any appeal they had (compared to PC)?

Many a January I've heard from colleagues about the hassle of setting-up a modern console for their children on Christmas Eve, since kids (rightfully) expect it to just work out of the box and don't want to sit there on Christmas Day waiting for new firmware and patches to download. Ever since consoles got ethernet sockets it seems like an excuse to release a defective product in order to meet a marketing-determined release date. It would be hilarious if consoles required IRQ management just to hear the mental gymnastics from the fanboys.

Mirroring many recent posts, I also dislike the move away from plug-n-play gaming.

Steam is/was, for me, a big milestone in that trend. It's such a great resource in many ways, but that goes hand-in-hand with the concept of your game library being remotely administered whether you liked it or not. It's a pretty huge trust issue, not to mention one of convenience.

Suddenly, we were reliant upon a whole host of new vectors working correctly and, in the process, paying to sit and watch them tediously play out at length. Steam client software, internet connection, steam client updates, steam network status, bloated game updates, before we could even start to game, (with caveats!) each and every time.

For balance, I will mention that 1993 wasn't necessarily a picnic either, copying 8 individual floppy disks to hard drive via an archaic INSTALL.BAT procedure (....chik-chik-chik-chik.... Half an hour of your life later: ....chik-chik-chik-chik....), desperately hoping you wouldn't get a CRC copy error (!no doubt on Disk 8!), then running specialist configs entering hardware parameters, then altering your autoexec/config, then hoping it would all come together on your combination of hardware, then getting to level 10 in the game and hitting a hard fault at the exact same spot every time, updates-whadaya-mean-updates, hello DELTREE.

Starting work this morning reminded me of another Trend I absolutley despise

INTEL OPTANE!!!!

Let's see....let's cut the Memory of a system in half, install an NVME SSD smaller than the hard drive in my NEC Versa laptop from 1994, and then claim that it actually makes things run like "double the RAM".

The REAL optane experience is this....

1.) Imaging these machines is slower than a regular machine with an SSD and double the RAM, at least until the Intel Rapid Storage driver is installed and works
2.) You have to be careful about BIOS Settings and imaging because you can end up installing Windows on the NVME SSD instead of the hybrid drive
3.) If a program or O/S does not take advantage of the Optane, that program runs no better than if it was running on a regular system with the same Memory
4.) You have to keep the system current or Optane can behave as a performance HIT rather than a performance boost. This is particularly terrible when you are supporting a company with remote, and technically challenged I may add, end users working over VPN during COVID!
5.) Because of #4 you have to keep replacing machines because it's faster just to image another one and hand it over than to fix the other one (ie, run the 68 or so Windows updates + all the missed OEM updates)

If only we had enough RAM for me to rip the NVMEs out of these things and set them up with SSDs and twice the RAM - I've done that with 4, they run a thousand times better.

Meanwhile, while I'm typing this - YOUTUBE ADS!

Interrupting my video 40 times - and yes, I"m talking to you Google too! - with stupid ads does not make me want to buy your product.....

- Dr Squatch can take his toxic masculinity and that Chad Kroeger looking dolt and stick em' where the sun don't shine! The last thing I want to hear is a 30 minute ad full of macho posing, groaning men, and women talking about men smelling like elderberry leaves - sorry, but not sorry, not my thing!
- "30 years ago we made this game and no..." and now I'm going to download it from an Abandonware Site and run it on my 486 because I'm not paying you
jack squat for a half-arse experience with DLC, constant updates, and no feelies
- Every time I see that ad with the padlock on a chained fence, I've skipped it so much that's all it is to me, I want to shoot that padlock off said fence for target practice!
- Ah, Microsoft......why pay $3999 for a Surface Pro when I can pay $39.99 for a used NEC Versa M/75CP and not have to deal with annoying updates, security holes, and drawing vague crappy lines in 4K when I can do pixel art in 320x200 that looks so good Steve Purcell would take me under his wing!
- Let's see, keep my old jalopy and continue to pay $500 every 10 years to keep it going? Or $500 every month for a computer on wheels that's likely spying on my driving habits with a pile of software errors to tell my insurance company to drive up my rates because the shitty braking system needs me to push the pedal down halfway to stop the darned car. Oh yeah, and $3000 repairs with firmware and crappy flimsy parts? Forget about it!

Seems since COVID Googles really ramped up the ads, and I did not mind when they were at the beginning and end.....

And again, why the heck do they need to make them 50% louder, or EQ them to seem that way!?!? Making your video as loud as a Deep Purple concert does not make me want to buy your product - it makes me want to go to your place of business with a train horn and an impromptu party with Motley Crue with all Marshalls at 11!

creepingnet wrote on 2020-12-22, 19:22:

Meanwhile, while I'm typing this - YOUTUBE ADS!

Interrupting my video 40 times - and yes, I"m talking to you Google too! - with stupid ads does not make me want to buy your product.....

As someone who has been using the YouTube app on the iPad and iPhone for years, I grew fairly accustomed to ads and tolerated them for the ease of use that the app provided. Until about 6 months ago when things somehow changed and instead of one or two ads per video, I started getting 4-5 of them at the very least. And they would unmistakably pop up at the most inappropriate times as well.

Since then, I have deleted the YouTube app from all of my devices and use Safari instead. The reason? Because AdGuard works on it and I no longer see any ads at all while watching videos i.e. just like on my PC. Using Safari is not quite as user friendly as the app, but it's so worth it for the peace of mind.

Music and explosions in movies being 10x louder than the dialogue so that you are constantly adjusting the volume every scene and without good closed captions to boot.

Along with that how about commercials being 10x louder than tv shows on cable TV.