Are the PCI Device IDs the same on both systems and when the drivers are installed which drivers get selected?

The [PCI Bus] panel of my SIV utility should report the Device IDs and Menu->Windows->Driver Version which driver is installed. If you post both Menu->File->Save Local files from each system I may be able to spot what is different.

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-24, 10:47:

Are the PCI Device IDs the same on both systems and when the drivers are installed which drivers get selected?

The [PCI Bus] panel of my SIV utility should report the Device IDs and Menu->Windows->Driver Version which driver is installed. If you post both Menu->File->Save Local files from each system I may be able to spot what is different.

Thanks for the response. I will check it out and gather the results.

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-24, 10:47:

Are the PCI Device IDs the same on both systems and when the drivers are installed which drivers get selected?

The [PCI Bus] panel of my SIV utility should report the Device IDs and Menu->Windows->Driver Version which driver is installed. If you post both Menu->File->Save Local files from each system I may be able to spot what is different.

Attempting to "Save local" ended up crashing each time I tried, so I attempted to pull a TXT file with some info associated. Let me know if you need additional info. See both TXT files attached that reflect both the working system (with the same PCI cards) and the unforgiving TUSL2 motherboard. One thing that appears obvious is that for whatever reason the TUSL2 thinks the SB Live! card is a video controller.

Any insight into this is appreciated.

Adrian

1[0 - 06 - 0]  19   1102-0002-80221102-07 Audio Controller     Creative CT4780 SBLive! Value
2[0 - 06 - 1]       1102-7002-00201102-07 Other Input          Creative PCI Gameport
3
4[2 - 14 - 0]  7    1102-0000-80201102-07 Video Controller     Creative
5[2 - 14 - 1]       1102-7000-00201102-07 Other Input          Creative

I can see why there is the issue, but can't suggest how to address this. Basically looking at [PCI Bus] on the ASUS TUSL2 the Device IDs are different/incorrect, further the Device Class is also incorrect.

My guess is there is something marginal with the ASUS TUSL2 system, have you checked the PSU voltages? SIV should have reported voltages via the AS99127F, but can't tell why not as you posted limited information rather than the two Menu->File->Save Local files I suggested.

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-24, 23:05:

I can see why there is the issue, but can't suggest how to address this. Basically looking at [PCI Bus] on the ASUS TUSL2 the De […]
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1[0 - 06 - 0]  19   1102-0002-80221102-07 Audio Controller     Creative CT4780 SBLive! Value
2[0 - 06 - 1]       1102-7002-00201102-07 Other Input          Creative PCI Gameport
3
4[2 - 14 - 0]  7    1102-0000-80201102-07 Video Controller     Creative
5[2 - 14 - 1]       1102-7000-00201102-07 Other Input          Creative

I can see why there is the issue, but can't suggest how to address this. Basically looking at [PCI Bus] on the ASUS TUSL2 the Device IDs are different/incorrect, further the Device Class is also incorrect.

My guess is there is something marginal with the ASUS TUSL2 system, have you checked the PSU voltages? SIV should have reported voltages via the AS99127F, but can't tell why not as you posted limited information rather than the two Menu->File->Save Local files I suggested.

I apologize. The "save local" was actually crashing/causing the system to reboot. I will look for voltages.

TMiN wrote on 2020-12-24, 23:13:

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-24, 23:05:

I can see why there is the issue, but can't suggest how to address this. Basically looking at [PCI Bus] on the ASUS TUSL2 the De […]
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1[0 - 06 - 0]  19   1102-0002-80221102-07 Audio Controller     Creative CT4780 SBLive! Value
2[0 - 06 - 1]       1102-7002-00201102-07 Other Input          Creative PCI Gameport
3
4[2 - 14 - 0]  7    1102-0000-80201102-07 Video Controller     Creative
5[2 - 14 - 1]       1102-7000-00201102-07 Other Input          Creative

I can see why there is the issue, but can't suggest how to address this. Basically looking at [PCI Bus] on the ASUS TUSL2 the Device IDs are different/incorrect, further the Device Class is also incorrect.

My guess is there is something marginal with the ASUS TUSL2 system, have you checked the PSU voltages? SIV should have reported voltages via the AS99127F, but can't tell why not as you posted limited information rather than the two Menu->File->Save Local files I suggested.

Update: It looks as though it's outputted partial files before rebooting that have power information included. I will gather and attached those and well, hopefully they're of some use.

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-24, 23:05:

I can see why there is the issue, but can't suggest how to address this. Basically looking at [PCI Bus] on the ASUS TUSL2 the De […]
Show full quote

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1[0 - 06 - 0]  19   1102-0002-80221102-07 Audio Controller     Creative CT4780 SBLive! Value
2[0 - 06 - 1]       1102-7002-00201102-07 Other Input          Creative PCI Gameport
3
4[2 - 14 - 0]  7    1102-0000-80201102-07 Video Controller     Creative
5[2 - 14 - 1]       1102-7000-00201102-07 Other Input          Creative

I can see why there is the issue, but can't suggest how to address this. Basically looking at [PCI Bus] on the ASUS TUSL2 the Device IDs are different/incorrect, further the Device Class is also incorrect.

My guess is there is something marginal with the ASUS TUSL2 system, have you checked the PSU voltages? SIV should have reported voltages via the AS99127F, but can't tell why not as you posted limited information rather than the two Menu->File->Save Local files I suggested.

I've attached the partial "save local" files as a .zip.

Much appreciated and happy holidays!

Can you down clock your P3-1000 EB from 133mhz to 100Mhz bus and rerun SIV ?
Am not a SIV guru but also do see some odd things, maybe down clocked it can produce a full report w/o crashing.

Horun wrote on 2020-12-25, 02:47:

Can you down clock your P3-1000 EB from 133mhz to 100Mhz bus and rerun SIV ?
Am not a SIV guru but also do see some odd things, maybe down clocked it can produce a full report w/o crashing.

I'll give it a try.

Horun wrote on 2020-12-25, 02:47:

Can you down clock your P3-1000 EB from 133mhz to 100Mhz bus and rerun SIV ?
Am not a SIV guru but also do see some odd things, maybe down clocked it can produce a full report w/o crashing.

I was able to run it successfully once underclocked. I attempted running it an additional time both underclocked (100) and full speed (133) -- however both additional attempts failed @ cpu-timer. That said, I have attached the complete 100FSB successful run and one additional failed 133FSB run.

In addition to the above, I was finally able to get a complete run of SIV32L by running "cpu-timer" independantly of the full test at full-speed 133/1000mhz. See attached.

Merry Christmas!

TMiN wrote on 2020-12-25, 05:12:

Merry Christmas!

Thank you for the save files, well done for using [Save Selected], apologies for the SIV triggered crashes and Merry Christmas!

To clarify what is happening, when Windows reads the Creative CT4780 SBLive! Value Device ID from PCI config space the returned value is 0x0000 when it should be 0x0002. If you use Device Manager to look at the PnP ID you should see it's PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0000 when it needs to be PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002. Have you tried cleaning the PCI connector?

On the HP NetServer the [gpu-dump] section triggered the issue which is something I have not seen before. What exactly happened? If Windows crashed was a .DMP crash dump file generated in C:\WINNT? If you do [Save Selected] and deselect [gpu-dump] does the save then run OK?

SIV had support for the ASUS TUSL2-C, but not the ASUS TUSL2 which is why there were no voltages. I have adjusted the attached SIV32L 5.55 Test-02 test SIV which should report the SIO voltages, does it? It should also report the DIMM SPD data and GPU Clocks so please may I have new save files so I confirm it does? Ideally include C:\Documents and Settings\Adrian\Desktop\SIV\SIV_P3-1400.dmi which is a raw dump of the data the [Machine] panel shows as SIV runs better in test/debug mode when I have it.

I am not sure why [cpu-timers] sometimes has issues and wonder if it's related to the issues you are seeing with the Creative CT4780 SBLive! Value.

Exactly which PSU are you using for the ASUS TUSL2 and how old is it? What currents is it rated for the +3.3, +5 and +12 rails? Do you have a DVM that you could use to check the voltages? I am wondering if +5 is on the low side and this causes some bits to be read as 0 rather than 1.

You seem to be using both the SIV 5.54 release + SIV 5.55 Beta-01 and sometimes the incorrect SIV Kernel Driver was running so such as [PCI Bus] could not work and reported Incorrect SIV Kernel Driver. V5.54 required, but V5.55 Built Dec 21 2020 at 11:56:51 WDK 6001.18000 V14.00 running from <unknown>, further the initial screen reported V5.55 Driver, V5.54 Needed. If you see this exit and restart SIV which should resolve this. It would be best if you just used SIV 5.55 Test-02.

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-25, 10:59:

Thank you for the save files, well done for using [Save Selected], apologies for the SIV triggered crashes and Merry Christmas! […]
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TMiN wrote on 2020-12-25, 05:12:

Merry Christmas!

Thank you for the save files, well done for using [Save Selected], apologies for the SIV triggered crashes and Merry Christmas!

To clarify what is happening, when Windows reads the Creative CT4780 SBLive! Value Device ID from PCI config space the returned value is 0x0000 when it should be 0x0002. If you use Device Manager to look at the PnP ID you should see it's PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0000 when it needs to be PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002. Have you tried cleaning the PCI connector?

On the HP NetServer the [gpu-dump] section triggered the issue which is something I have not seen before. What exactly happened? If Windows crashed was a .DMP crash dump file generated in C:\WINNT? If you do [Save Selected] and deselect [gpu-dump] does the save then run OK?

SIV had support for the ASUS TUSL2-C, but not the ASUS TUSL2 which is why there were no voltages. I have adjusted the attached SIV32L 5.55 Test-02 test SIV which should report the SIO voltages, does it? It should also report the DIMM SPD data and GPU Clocks so please may I have new save files so I confirm it does? Ideally include C:\Documents and Settings\Adrian\Desktop\SIV\SIV_P3-1400.dmi which is a raw dump of the data the [Machine] panel shows as SIV runs better in test/debug mode when I have it.

I am not sure why [cpu-timers] sometimes has issues and wonder if it's related to the issues you are seeing with the Creative CT4780 SBLive! Value.

Exactly which PSU are you using for the ASUS TUSL2 and how old is it? What currents is it rated for the +3.3, +5 and +12 rails? Do you have a DVM that you could use to check the voltages? I am wondering if +5 is on the low side and this causes some bits to be read as 0 rather than 1.

You seem to be using both the SIV 5.54 release + SIV 5.55 Beta-01 and sometimes the incorrect SIV Kernel Driver was running so such as [PCI Bus] could not work and reported Incorrect SIV Kernel Driver. V5.54 required, but V5.55 Built Dec 21 2020 at 11:56:51 WDK 6001.18000 V14.00 running from <unknown>, further the initial screen reported V5.55 Driver, V5.54 Needed. If you see this exit and restart SIV which should resolve this. It would be best if you just used SIV 5.55 Test-02.

I'm using a new Cooler Master "500w MasterWatt Lite" that I just picked up for this build. I'll attach the spec sheet as a .jpg. Unfortunately, I don't have a tester here to verify it's current output.

https://coolermaster.egnyte.com/dl/tjf8LTUJFV/?

I'm unsure if it's a PCI contact issue, seeing as it's also happening to my Realtek Ethernet Card -- which is replicated on every PCI slot I've tested so far on the TUSL2. I guess it's still possible that they're both making poor connections though. I can't entirely discount that. I will look into that.

Thank you for the new version. I've attached the new "save local" runs, including the dmi files. I had to select "cpu-timer" independently again.

I appreciate this!

TMiN wrote on 2020-12-25, 22:37:

I had to select "cpu-timer" independently again.

Thank you for checking out the test SIV and posting new save files. All the adjustments I made worked as I intended.

OK about no DVM, I am pretty sure the voltages reported by SIV are correct, does the BIOS report the voltages? If so it would be sensible to check SIV and the BIOS report the same values.

Looking at the [Dump PCI] panels for the devices on bus 2 ([ 2 - nn - n ]) you should see that none of the values have bit-17 (0x00020000) set so I am starting to wonder if B32 AD17 Address/Data 17 is faulty, maybe it's shorted to ground. I feel it would be worth having a look for a short, better still buy a DVM and use that to compare AD16 through to AD19 with all the PCI cards removed.

You should not need to run [cpu-timer] on it's own and I have not seen this issue on any other system. Does the attached SIV 5.55 Xmas-02 test SIV do any better? Does Menu->Hardware->CPU Detail->CPU Timers run OK? Did Dr Watton generate a dump? If you press the [Dr Watton] button on Menu->Windows->Parameters->Dr Watson this should show the Dr Watson UI panel which should tell you where the dump files are.

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-26, 11:34:

Thank you for checking out the test SIV and posting new save files. All the adjustments I made worked as I intended. […]
Show full quote

TMiN wrote on 2020-12-25, 22:37:

I had to select "cpu-timer" independently again.

Thank you for checking out the test SIV and posting new save files. All the adjustments I made worked as I intended.

OK about no DVM, I am pretty sure the voltages reported by SIV are correct, does the BIOS report the voltages? If so it would be sensible to check SIV and the BIOS report the same values.

Looking at the [Dump PCI] panels for the devices on bus 2 ([ 2 - nn - n ]) you should see that none of the values have bit-17 (0x00020000) set so I am starting to wonder if B32 AD17 Address/Data 17 is faulty, maybe it's shorted to ground. I feel it would be worth having a look for a short, better still buy a DVM and use that to compare AD16 through to AD19 with all the PCI cards removed.

You should not need to run [cpu-timer] on it's own and I have not seen this issue on any other system. Does the attached SIV 5.55 Xmas-02 test SIV do any better? Does Menu->Hardware->CPU Detail->CPU Timers run OK? Did Dr Watton generate a dump? If you press the [Dr Watton] button on Menu->Windows->Parameters->Dr Watson this should show the Dr Watson UI panel which should tell you where the dump files are.

I have decided to rebuild the system, remount the processor, clean everything up and use an entirely different PSU. I will re-test with the SIV 5.55 Xmas-02 revision once it's back together. Thanks again for your continued assistance.

I should clarify as of late, that while running "cpu-timer" as a batch "save local" it's been causing the application to hang, not the entire system. I've only been needing to kill the process and re-run the test separately for it to successful complete the test. There hasn't been any BSOD on this system, just when running it on the P3-866 HP system, which is dual CPU. Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

TMiN wrote on 2020-12-26, 18:07:

There hasn't been any BSOD on this system, just when running it on the P3-866 HP system, which is dual CPU. Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

OK and good luck with the rebuild.

The BSOD on the P3-866 HP system happened while dumping the GPU registers so is unlikely to be down to it having two CPUs, further all is OK on my Compaq AP550 which also has 2 x P3-866 CPUs and all my other systems with multiple CPUs.

I changed SIV 5.55 Xmas-02 such that it should skip the [gpu-dump] section on a HP NetServer so the BSOD should not happen. I don't see why it happens, maybe it just happens when there is a ServerWorks CNB20-LE chipset.

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-26, 18:32:

OK and good luck with the rebuild. […]
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TMiN wrote on 2020-12-26, 18:07:

There hasn't been any BSOD on this system, just when running it on the P3-866 HP system, which is dual CPU. Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

OK and good luck with the rebuild.

The BSOD on the P3-866 HP system happened while dumping the GPU registers so is unlikely to be down to it having two CPUs, further all is OK on my Compaq AP550 which also has 2 x P3-866 CPUs and all my other systems with multiple CPUs.

I changed SIV 5.55 Xmas-02 such that it should skip the [gpu-dump] section on a HP NetServer so the BSOD should not happen. I don't see why it happens, maybe it just happens when there is a ServerWorks CNB20-LE chipset.

Thanks. Without being able to immediately test as you suggest, I'm hoping that it was just a flakey new PSU or something that miraculously disappears after being reassembled. Stranger things have happened, although I'm not betting on it.

red-ray wrote on 2020-12-26, 11:34:

Thank you for checking out the test SIV and posting new save files. All the adjustments I made worked as I intended. […]
Show full quote

TMiN wrote on 2020-12-25, 22:37:

I had to select "cpu-timer" independently again.

Thank you for checking out the test SIV and posting new save files. All the adjustments I made worked as I intended.

OK about no DVM, I am pretty sure the voltages reported by SIV are correct, does the BIOS report the voltages? If so it would be sensible to check SIV and the BIOS report the same values.

Looking at the [Dump PCI] panels for the devices on bus 2 ([ 2 - nn - n ]) you should see that none of the values have bit-17 (0x00020000) set so I am starting to wonder if B32 AD17 Address/Data 17 is faulty, maybe it's shorted to ground. I feel it would be worth having a look for a short, better still buy a DVM and use that to compare AD16 through to AD19 with all the PCI cards removed.

You should not need to run [cpu-timer] on it's own and I have not seen this issue on any other system. Does the attached SIV 5.55 Xmas-02 test SIV do any better? Does Menu->Hardware->CPU Detail->CPU Timers run OK? Did Dr Watton generate a dump? If you press the [Dr Watton] button on Menu->Windows->Parameters->Dr Watson this should show the Dr Watson UI panel which should tell you where the dump files are.

Well,

I took everything out, swapped with another new PSU, cleaned everything, re-mounted the CPU and re-pasted in the process. Same result.

Interestingly enough, while booting everything as setup defaults and without having any PCI or AGP expansion cards installed everything seems to work -- except for the on-board audio! Could it be that the on-board audio was damaged all along and causing the "PCI short"? Previously, I'd just been manually disabling everything in the BIOS that I didn't need.

I did re-run the SIV Xmas-2 release without any PCI/AGP devices with BIOS defaults. Still hung on "cpu-timer" but that seems to be par for this course/MB.

This board is definitely suspect at this point.

TMiN wrote on 2020-12-28, 03:35:

I did re-run the SIV Xmas-2 release without any PCI/AGP devices with BIOS defaults. Still hung on "cpu-timer" but that seems to be par for this course/MB.

Thank you for the update and in truth I was half expecting the rebuild would not make the issue go away. Where did the board come come and can you return it as faulty and get a refund?

I can't figure out why [cpu-timer] hangs up, when it does this is SIV using 100% of the CPU time? Can you use Windows Task Manager to force a dump to be generated? If it happened on one of my systems I could easily find out what is happening by running SIV from the MSVC6 remote debugger, but I guess you don't have MSVC6 at all.

Have you had a chance to try doing [Save Local] using 5.55 Xmas-02 on the HP NetServer?