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First post, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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I have never been a CPU overclocker, ever. In fact, my PC building philosophy is always "the slowest CPU possible with the fastest GPU possible" to minimize problems with speed-sensitive games. After all, even a lowly Celeron is enough to do most office works.

However, lately I've been interested to play DOS VESA games in DOSBOX. Sandwarriors at 640x480 in DOSBOX runs pretty well on my old i5 2400 @3.10 GHz. Too bad the CPU isn't fast enough to run the game at 800x600 in DOSBOX. Then I saw this thread:

Tertz wrote on 2015-05-09, 12:59:
Intel Core i7 7700K 5.0 GHz (Win10-64, DDR4 3600): 76, 86, 74 / 234, 238, 221 Intel Core i7 7700K 4.5 GHz (Win10-64, DDR4 3000): […]
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Intel Core i7 7700K 5.0 GHz (Win10-64, DDR4 3600): 76, 86, 74 / 234, 238, 221
Intel Core i7 7700K 4.5 GHz (Win10-64, DDR4 3000): 68, 78, 68 / 228, 240, 221
Intel Core i7 4790K 4.5 GHz (Win10-64): 63, 71, 62 / 201, 205, 190
Intel Core i7 5820K 4.6 GHz (Win7-64): 62, 70, 62 / 204, 208, 191
Intel Core i7 4930K 4.6 GHz (Win7-64): 60, 68, 59
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 4.2 GHz (Win10-64): 59, 59, 59 / 184, 184, 183
Intel Core i7 4790K 4.4 GHz (Win8.1-64): 57, 64, 57
Intel Core i7 4770K 4.0 GHz (Win8.1-64): 55, 61, 54 / 174, 176, 163
Intel Core i5 4690 3.9 GHz (Win7-64): 53, 60, 53
Intel Core i5 3570K 4.2 GHz (Win8.1-64): 52
Intel Core i7 3930K 4.2 GHz (Win7-64): 47, 55, 49 / 159, 162, 150
AMD Ryzen 5 2600 3.9 GHz (Win10-64): 47 / 146
Intel Core i7 5700HQ 3.5 GHz (Win10-64): 46, 52, 45 / 149, 152, 141
Intel Core i5 2400 3.9 GHz (Win8.1-64): 44, 49, 44
.
.
etcetera

I have recently bought an i7 4930k in an impulse buying, only to realize later that it is an LGA 2011 CPU. Too bad, most LGA 2011 motherboards are quite expensive --even the older models. However, Ebay seems to be flooded with cheap, Chinese-made LGA 2011 motherboards, an example is Jing Sha X97M-S2.0 MATX mobo. Such motherboards also support a large amount of RAM, like 64 GB.

The problem is, such motherboards don't have overclocking options in their BIOS.

On the other hand, an i7 4930K needs to be overclocked to 4.6 GHz to reach the performance numbers depicted above. Well I'm not that ambitious; if 4 GHz is enough to play Sandwarriors or F-22 Lightning II at 800x600 in DOSBOX, then I'll be happy. But it seems I need to overclock anyway, because the 4930K's base clock is merely 3.4 GHz. In any case, since the motherboard's BIOS isn't overclockable, I'm thinking of using Intel XTU. But I read in some forums that overclocking without using BIOS is risky.

Is that true? What are the risks and downsides of overclocking without using BIOS? For example, suppose the system refuse to boot because I set the CPU multiplier too high in XTU, can I still restore the system by removing the CMOS battery? At least if I messed up the BIOS, I can still use that method. But how about Intel XTU?

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 1 of 6, by Wanderer

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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-12-19, 00:12:

However, lately I've been interested to play DOS VESA games in DOSBOX.

I do not know much about retrogaming, but maybe it is possible to run these games under real DOS in a virtual machine and have better performance? Your i5 supports hardware virtualization.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-12-19, 00:12:

But I read in some forums that overclocking without using BIOS is risky.

Is that true? What are the risks and downsides of overclocking without using BIOS?

I am using XTU to undervolt i7-4790S on an industrial motherboard that lacks the required controls in the BIOS. There are no additional risks I can think of, but one inconvenience is that the custom settings are only applied in the OS where XTU is installed; afterwards, they are preserved upon reboot, but will be reset to default after a shutdown.
Also, here are some details you should know:
- Intel's website offers only the latest version of XTU (currently supporting microarchitectures from Broadwell up), you will need to look elsewhere for an older version for your processor;
- after XTU is installed, you will need to go to Administrative Tools -> Services and switch the corresponding service to Automatic so as to apply custom settings at system startup rather than on first XTU launch;
- the utility is compatible only with Win 7 and up.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-12-19, 00:12:

For example, suppose the system refuse to boot because I set the CPU multiplier too high in XTU, can I still restore the system by removing the CMOS battery? At least if I messed up the BIOS, I can still use that method. But how about Intel XTU?

No worries. When you hit instability and the system reboots/shuts down unexpectedly, all settings in XTU will revert to their defaults.

Reply 2 of 6, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Interesting points being made, thank you.

Wanderer wrote on 2020-12-28, 16:17:

I do not know much about retrogaming, but maybe it is possible to run these games under real DOS in a virtual machine and have better performance? Your i5 supports hardware virtualization.

The reason I haven't tried VMs is because I'm not sure if their sound and joystick support is as good as that of DOSBOX. AFAIK, Virtual PC 5 can translate host's USB joystick into guest's gameport joystick, but it runs slow, perhaps even slower than DOSBOX. I don't doubt later versions are faster, but their joystick support is non-existent as far as I'm concerned.

Wanderer wrote on 2020-12-28, 16:17:
I am using XTU to undervolt i7-4790S on an industrial motherboard that lacks the required controls in the BIOS. There are no add […]
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I am using XTU to undervolt i7-4790S on an industrial motherboard that lacks the required controls in the BIOS. There are no additional risks I can think of, but one inconvenience is that the custom settings are only applied in the OS where XTU is installed; afterwards, they are preserved upon reboot, but will be reset to default after a shutdown.
Also, here are some details you should know:
- Intel's website offers only the latest version of XTU (currently supporting microarchitectures from Broadwell up), you will need to look elsewhere for an older version for your processor;
- after XTU is installed, you will need to go to Administrative Tools -> Services and switch the corresponding service to Automatic so as to apply custom settings at system startup rather than on first XTU launch;
- the utility is compatible only with Win 7 and up.

The latest XTU can overclock i7 4930K, but only up to 3.90 GHz. It should be enough for my purpose though.

Wanderer wrote on 2020-12-28, 16:17:

No worries. When you hit instability and the system reboots/shuts down unexpectedly, all settings in XTU will revert to their defaults.

Ah, everything is good then.

Oh, and one more thing: Intel X79 chipset needs latest BIOS to support Ivy Bridge-E, where i7 4930K belongs to. On the other hand, I have seen Chinese X79 motherboards that are explicitly advertised to support i7 4930K (and 4960X) CPU. Is it safe to assume, then, that those X79 motherboards are already loaded with the latest BIOS by their manufacturers? And if they don't, how difficult is it to update the BIOS? I'm not sure if they use standard X79 BIOS. Someone has tried to flash Chinese motherboard BIOS, but to no avail.

I flashed the mod BIOS but now flashing is locked: […]
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I flashed the mod BIOS but now flashing is locked:

"the host cpu does not have write access to the target flash area"

I tried BCLK_SEL jumper on board and disable Intel ME. No luck.

Can anyone help? It seems that this was intentional by whoever made the original BIOS, someone named Aleksey Dankov.

Also, Russian is not my native language so I missed the part where it says "An important nuance: after flashing the modified version, the native bios can only be returned by the programmer."

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 3 of 6, by Wanderer

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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-12-30, 06:39:

Interesting points being made, thank you.

You are welcome. I forgot to add another warning: the PC must be connected to the Internet when XTU is first started after installation and reboot, otherwise the utility will refuse to launch and tell that a driver is missing. Took me a few hours to figure that out on a system disconnected by default...

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-12-30, 06:39:

The latest XTU can overclock i7 4930K

I doubt that... See "Supported Platforms" in the release notes for the newest version: https://downloadmirror.intel.com/29183/eng/XT … eleaseNotes.pdf
And for an older version, e.g. 6.5.2.40: https://www.scribd.com/document/466872654/XTU … 40-ReleaseNotes
I can't use the current version with my Haswell CPU (tried it), even though the download page has the corresponding K-model listed.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-12-30, 06:39:

how difficult is it to update the BIOS?

I have no personal experience to help you here, but there is a big Russian website (xeon-e5450.ru) with extensive info. Hope Google Translate Web will make it understandable for you. Here is the page about BIOS update procedure: https://xeon-e5450.ru/soft/afudos/

Reply 4 of 6, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Wanderer wrote on 2021-01-01, 21:00:
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-12-30, 06:39:

Interesting points being made, thank you.

You are welcome. I forgot to add another warning: the PC must be connected to the Internet when XTU is first started after installation and reboot, otherwise the utility will refuse to launch and tell that a driver is missing. Took me a few hours to figure that out on a system disconnected by default...

Argh, this is one of the trends that I hate.

Wanderer wrote on 2021-01-01, 21:00:

I doubt that... See "Supported Platforms" in the release notes for the newest version: https://downloadmirror.intel.com/29183/eng/XT … eleaseNotes.pdf
And for an older version, e.g. 6.5.2.40: https://www.scribd.com/document/466872654/XTU … 40-ReleaseNotes
I can't use the current version with my Haswell CPU (tried it), even though the download page has the corresponding K-model listed.

I see. I'm gonna try Wayback Machine, but do you have other suggestions about where to find older versions of XTU?

Wanderer wrote on 2021-01-01, 21:00:

I have no personal experience to help you here, but there is a big Russian website (xeon-e5450.ru) with extensive info. Hope Google Translate Web will make it understandable for you. Here is the page about BIOS update procedure: https://xeon-e5450.ru/soft/afudos/

I see, thanks again.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 5 of 6, by Wanderer

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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2021-01-02, 13:31:

Argh, this is one of the trends that I hate.

Yeah, you are not alone in that 😀

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2021-01-02, 13:31:

I see. I'm gonna try Wayback Machine, but do you have other suggestions about where to find older versions of XTU?

Here is XTU v6.5.2.40, the one I am using. It seems to be the last one to support Ivy generation as well.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!App_YLHfwVtdgkhQQeC60HLa3A4x?e=jEeG7I

P.S. Regarding the BIOS updates, perhaps this Russian page will be helpful too: https://forums.overclockers.ru/viewtopic.php?t=580210
There is also a mention that Ivy Bridge EP processors should be recognized by the stock BIOS on all motherboards.

Reply 6 of 6, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Wanderer wrote on 2021-01-02, 17:59:
Here is XTU v6.5.2.40, the one I am using. It seems to be the last one to support Ivy generation as well. https://1drv.ms/u/s!A […]
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Here is XTU v6.5.2.40, the one I am using. It seems to be the last one to support Ivy generation as well.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!App_YLHfwVtdgkhQQeC60HLa3A4x?e=jEeG7I

P.S. Regarding the BIOS updates, perhaps this Russian page will be helpful too: https://forums.overclockers.ru/viewtopic.php?t=580210
There is also a mention that Ivy Bridge EP processors should be recognized by the stock BIOS on all motherboards.

Thank you! I'll certainly give it a shot.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.