For me main reason to have dedicated XP rig is EAX (and of course general compatibility). You can get EAX to work on later Windows in a lot of games but it sounds different (I have tried it). Not too different mind you, so I would file it under "purist" category. I am still working on that Graphics/Sound API list I have promised in some other thread in 2019... but it's like 70% complete by now so it should see the light of day eventually.

By the way, Windows 7 has benefits! It has a much better support for DLL code injection of various game mods (released in modern times) so you can have widescreen support, unlocked framerate, and other various modern fixes. It also has Nvidia DSR. These ways combined with OpenAL/Alchemy are just as good fun/experience as the purist XP rig - but it is different, not as original.

using an Auzentech X-Fi sound card with OpenAL and ALchemy under win7 seems to sound identical to directsound on XP for me, I have only compared a handful of games between XP and 7 but I noticed no differences. Can you mention some titles that you found to sound different, and also confirm if you used X-Fi for the test, as later sound cards such as sound blaster Z make EAX sound different because they do software emulation of it, unlike X-Fi that runs it in hardware trough openal, from what I know

IIRC Mafia (a DS3D + EAX3 title) sounds slightly different (not necessarily "better"). I am using "Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro" card. Multi booting between Win XP / Windows 7, both 32-bit. I think the general consensus is that WinXP is preferred over ALchemy for (other) various reasons such as bugs and compatibility so that ALchemy is not perfect (or original). I think we are approaching subjective preference territory here. The differences are very small and there are trade-offs with each method. Not to mention a lot of this will be game specific.

The only difference between sound cards using OpenAL and ALchemy will be in the EQ. All of them emulate EAX entirely in software. Beginning in windows vista Microsoft removed the ability for software to talk directly to the sound card so none of them are hardware accelerated.

isn't it that begining with Vista they removed hardware acceleration trough directsound, but hardware acceleration is still working trough openal?

God Of Gaming wrote on 2021-01-15, 17:53:

isn't it that begining with Vista they removed hardware acceleration trough directsound, but hardware acceleration is still working trough openal?

openAL is all software I'm pretty sure. I don't know how it wouldn't be.

Whats the difference between OpenAL and ALChemy? Do they need specific sound cards to work with? Do they work with all games that expect EAX support in hardware?

From my limited understanding here is a basic overview:

XP (original situation):

DirectSound -> Hardware Abstraction Layer (HW accelerated) -> DirectSound3D -> EAX (Creative own extension to DS3D for advanced effects such as reverb)

Vista (era of workarounds):

Vista removes "Hardware Abstraction Layer". This makes games fail to load DirectSound3D and EAX as a consequence. So no 3D audio. Games will simply appear as if you do not have accelerator sound card in your system.

2 important software are created. OpenAL and Creative ALchemy.

OpenAL is cross-platform and open-source. Think of it like replacement for DirectSound3D. On Windows it still uses DirectSound as backend. All done in software (their vision of the future, which obviously makes sense).

Creative ALchemy restores DirectSound3D and EAX by intercepting DirectSound calls and translating anything necessary to OpenAL instead. This makes DirectSound3D/EAX kick back in with full HW acceleration support, basically resurrecting the missing hardware acceleration on Vista. It is not a 100% "clean" solution to the original problem, only a work around. So while ALchemy is very very good, it is not perfect. Or better said, ALchemy results are not 100% as original, as perfect or imperfect that may be.

These days 3D sound is done like this for example:

DirectSound -> OpenAL -> EFX (OpenAL own extension to OpenAL for advanced effects)

kolderman wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:42:

Whats the difference between OpenAL and ALChemy? Do they need specific sound cards to work with? Do they work with all games that expect EAX support in hardware?

I think openAL is an extension of ALchemy. I installed it recently and it required OpenAL from creative and then I had to install a dll into the system folder to get the most up-to-date version, that part being open source or freeware.

OpenAL compatibility isn't 100%. I don't think it is any better than ALchemy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_EAX_support

EDIT: I though I read that openAL does not offload audio processing to the sound card like it can do with directsound in windows XP, but maybe I am wrong about that. openAL does work without a creative sound card installed at all so it is at a minimum capable of doing everything entirely in software.

kolderman wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:42:

Do they work with all games that expect EAX support in hardware?

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though. But check this out:

https://github.com/kcat/dsoal

1About
2=====
3
4This project is for a DirectSound DLL replacement. It implements the
5DirectSound interfaces by translating the calls to OpenAL, and fools
6applications into thinking there is a hardware accelerated sound device. EAX is
7also implemented (up to version 4) by using OpenAL's EFX extension, allowing
8for environmental reverb with sound obstruction and occlusion effects.
9
10Ultimately, this enables DirectSound applications to enable their DirectSound3D
11acceleration path, and turn on EAX. The actual processing is being done by
12OpenAL with no hardware acceleration requirement, allowing it to work on
13systems where audio acceleration is not otherwise available.
14
15Or more succinctly: it enables DirectSound3D surround sound and EAX for systems
16without the requisite hardware.

duga3 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:51:

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though […]
Show full quote

kolderman wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:42:

Do they work with all games that expect EAX support in hardware?

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though. But check this out:

https://github.com/kcat/dsoal

Copy code to clipboard

1About
2=====
3
4This project is for a DirectSound DLL replacement. It implements the
5DirectSound interfaces by translating the calls to OpenAL, and fools
6applications into thinking there is a hardware accelerated sound device. EAX is
7also implemented (up to version 4) by using OpenAL's EFX extension, allowing
8for environmental reverb with sound obstruction and occlusion effects.
9
10Ultimately, this enables DirectSound applications to enable their DirectSound3D
11acceleration path, and turn on EAX. The actual processing is being done by
12OpenAL with no hardware acceleration requirement, allowing it to work on
13systems where audio acceleration is not otherwise available.
14
15Or more succinctly: it enables DirectSound3D surround sound and EAX for systems
16without the requisite hardware.

openAL does restore EAX in compatible games without a creative sound card. I am 100% sure of that. I have used it a couple times for that purpose using nothing but realtek built in audio.

Some good explanation here as well:

https://hexus.net/ce/news/audio-visual/7719-c … possible-vista/

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:54:

duga3 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:51:

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though […]
Show full quote

kolderman wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:42:

Do they work with all games that expect EAX support in hardware?

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though. But check this out:

https://github.com/kcat/dsoal

Copy code to clipboard

1About
2=====
3
4This project is for a DirectSound DLL replacement. It implements the
5DirectSound interfaces by translating the calls to OpenAL, and fools
6applications into thinking there is a hardware accelerated sound device. EAX is
7also implemented (up to version 4) by using OpenAL's EFX extension, allowing
8for environmental reverb with sound obstruction and occlusion effects.
9
10Ultimately, this enables DirectSound applications to enable their DirectSound3D
11acceleration path, and turn on EAX. The actual processing is being done by
12OpenAL with no hardware acceleration requirement, allowing it to work on
13systems where audio acceleration is not otherwise available.
14
15Or more succinctly: it enables DirectSound3D surround sound and EAX for systems
16without the requisite hardware.

openAL does restore EAX in compatible games without a creative sound card. I am 100% sure of that. I have used it a couple times for that purpose using nothing but realtek built in audio.

It seems OpenAL is an API a game needs to use for it to work. Are there any instructions otherwise? I am wanting to enable EAX in Bioshock under Win10.

kolderman wrote on 2021-01-15, 19:07:

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:54:

duga3 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:51:

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though […]
Show full quote

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though. But check this out:

https://github.com/kcat/dsoal

Copy code to clipboard

1About
2=====
3
4This project is for a DirectSound DLL replacement. It implements the
5DirectSound interfaces by translating the calls to OpenAL, and fools
6applications into thinking there is a hardware accelerated sound device. EAX is
7also implemented (up to version 4) by using OpenAL's EFX extension, allowing
8for environmental reverb with sound obstruction and occlusion effects.
9
10Ultimately, this enables DirectSound applications to enable their DirectSound3D
11acceleration path, and turn on EAX. The actual processing is being done by
12OpenAL with no hardware acceleration requirement, allowing it to work on
13systems where audio acceleration is not otherwise available.
14
15Or more succinctly: it enables DirectSound3D surround sound and EAX for systems
16without the requisite hardware.

openAL does restore EAX in compatible games without a creative sound card. I am 100% sure of that. I have used it a couple times for that purpose using nothing but realtek built in audio.

It seems OpenAL is an API a game needs to use for it to work. Are there any instructions otherwise? I am wanting to enable EAX in Bioshock under Win10.

Bioshock 1 is an OpenAL + EAX5 title. This means it works just fine in Vista or later (including Windows 10) BUT you still need an actual EAX sound card. That is the intended/original way.

Now I am assuming you do not have such EAX sound card so perhaps try https://github.com/kcat/dsoal but it says only up to EAX 4 is supported. Only around 30 games were made with EAX5 support btw 😀

kolderman wrote on 2021-01-15, 19:07:

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:54:

duga3 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:51:

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though […]
Show full quote

Good question. I am not sure if using ALchemy will restore EAX if you do not have the compatible sound card. Probably not though. But check this out:

https://github.com/kcat/dsoal

Copy code to clipboard

1About
2=====
3
4This project is for a DirectSound DLL replacement. It implements the
5DirectSound interfaces by translating the calls to OpenAL, and fools
6applications into thinking there is a hardware accelerated sound device. EAX is
7also implemented (up to version 4) by using OpenAL's EFX extension, allowing
8for environmental reverb with sound obstruction and occlusion effects.
9
10Ultimately, this enables DirectSound applications to enable their DirectSound3D
11acceleration path, and turn on EAX. The actual processing is being done by
12OpenAL with no hardware acceleration requirement, allowing it to work on
13systems where audio acceleration is not otherwise available.
14
15Or more succinctly: it enables DirectSound3D surround sound and EAX for systems
16without the requisite hardware.

openAL does restore EAX in compatible games without a creative sound card. I am 100% sure of that. I have used it a couple times for that purpose using nothing but realtek built in audio.

It seems OpenAL is an API a game needs to use for it to work. Are there any instructions otherwise? I am wanting to enable EAX in Bioshock under Win10.

PCGamingWiki has a note about EAX. Looks like you might have to rename and move some dlls.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/BioShock

I use openAL with openMW - an engine replacement for morrowind. I had to download openAL from creative, install it, and then add a seperate dll from github to get version 1.2 working.

https://www.openal.org/downloads/
https://github.com/kcat/openal-soft

duga3 wrote on 2021-01-15, 19:13:

kolderman wrote on 2021-01-15, 19:07:

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:54:

openAL does restore EAX in compatible games without a creative sound card. I am 100% sure of that. I have used it a couple times for that purpose using nothing but realtek built in audio.

It seems OpenAL is an API a game needs to use for it to work. Are there any instructions otherwise? I am wanting to enable EAX in Bioshock under Win10.

Bioshock 1 is an OpenAL + EAX5 title. This means it works just fine in Vista or later (including Windows 10) BUT you still need an actual EAX sound card. That is the intended/original way.

Now I am assuming you do not have such EAX sound card so perhaps try https://github.com/kcat/dsoal but it says only up to EAX 4 is supported. Only around 30 games were made with EAX5 support btw 😀

I installed OpenAL and I can select EAX in Bioshock now. Why would I need a EAX sound card if OpenAL emulates it all in software? I can't yet tell if it has made a difference to the sound in Bioshock.

I have looked into Bioshock 1 in more detail now. Note these things tend to be under documented so always test yourself. It apparently uses a mix of FMOD, OpenAL, DirectSound3D and EAX5 😀

So the most original way would be to play it under XP where HW accelerated DS3D works, with EAX5 sound card.

Next alternative is Vista and onwards, where DS3D stuff will be automatically replaced with OpenAL implementation. May not be as optimized as DS3D though. I am assuming this is software only.

If you are on Vista+ then install/use OpenAL to get general 3D audio. For restoring EAX you can try DSOAL and/or ALchemy. OpenAL does not emulate EAX in itself.

duga3 wrote on 2021-01-15, 20:15:

I have looked into Bioshock 1 in more detail now. Note these things tend to be under documented so always test yourself. It appa […]
Show full quote

I have looked into Bioshock 1 in more detail now. Note these things tend to be under documented so always test yourself. It apparently uses a mix of FMOD, OpenAL, DirectSound3D and EAX5 😀

So the most original way would be to play it under XP where HW accelerated DS3D works, with EAX5 sound card.

Next alternative is Vista and onwards, where DS3D stuff will be automatically replaced with OpenAL implementation. May not be as optimized as DS3D though. I am assuming this is software only.

If you are on Vista+ then install/use OpenAL to get general 3D audio. For restoring EAX you can try DSOAL and/or ALchemy. OpenAL does not emulate EAX in itself.

OK. So to be clear -- OpenAL *will* work with an EAX5 sound card, so if I installed that (I have several) in my Win10 PC, then OpenAL should allow HW accelerated EAX?

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-15, 18:39:

openAL is all software I'm pretty sure. I don't know how it wouldn't be.

This is not true. OpenAL works similar to OpenGL. That is when you run the core OpenAL installer it installs a generic driver OpenAL32.dll.
On Windows XP this driver can wrap around hardware accelerated Directsound3D so a Generic Hardware device (and also a Generic Software device) is available that can do positional audio. But even on XP Creative Audigy+ driver (Audigy2/4 X-Fi) installs hardware specific ICD driver (ct_oal.dll ). Other hardware specific ICDs can be also enumerated by OpenAL32.dll.
On Vista+ by default only Generic Software device is available that does not provide positional audio. You need to install your device specific driver to get positional audio since the Generic Hardware device is missing (because hardware accelerated Direcrsound3D was removed).
But with e.g. ct_oal.dll installed you get the same functionality on Vista than on XP if you have a supported Creative SB card.

OpenAL Soft ( soft_oal.dll) is really a software only solution so it works with every hardware but it uses the same mechanism as above mentioned hardware specific drivers.
With properly written software you should not rename soft_oal.dll to openal32.dll and put it in the program's own directory since there is a standard mechanism in OpenAL to select which device/implementation you would like to use. Programs are linked directly only to OpenAL32.dll but you should be able to select which specific driver you would like to use. Unfortunately many programs do not offer such selection but uses the first available one (It's always Generic Software on Vista+ when no ICD is installed). That is why you have to rename/replace the generic OpenGL32.dll to specific one like soft_oal.dll.
Here is the enumeration result of my test programs with both an Audigy2 ZS and Openal Soft installed: