Hi! Interesting topic! 😎
Not a product per se, but certain Windows 2.x (2.03) compatible device drivers do function in Windows 3.0's RM.
Like graphics drivers. Though only Windows 1/2 programs seem to benefit from this,
since Windows then uses the old colour palette.

Jo22 wrote on 2021-02-19, 05:20:

Hi! Interesting topic! 😎 Not a product per se, but certain Windows 2.x (2.03) compatible device drivers do function in Windows 3 […]
Show full quote

Hi! Interesting topic! 😎
Not a product per se, but certain Windows 2.x (2.03) compatible device drivers do function in Windows 3.0's RM.
Like graphics drivers. Though only Windows 1/2 programs seem to benefit from this,
since Windows then uses the old colour palette.

That's interesting to know 😉
So a Hercules monochrome display driver for example for windows 2.0 real-mode will work in 3.0 / real mode?
What about printer drivers?

I've downloaded a whole bunch of early versions of windows programs,
like Aldus PageMaker v1 and many more, and plan to test them all,
and keep updating the list...
Expect updates during the following days and weeks,
and please, if you have any entries or are aware of any software that runs in real-mode on win 3.0,
please mention it so I can add it to the list 😀

Cheers,
Terrence

added * Lotus Ami Pro v1.2b.

Cheers,
Terrence

I just wanted to start an experiment to make a hybrid Windows 2.11 / Windows 3.0. Make it look and feel like Windows 2.11. Because the windows button images and many visual resources are inside the video drivers.

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-19, 06:12:

Jo22 wrote on 2021-02-19, 05:20:

Hi! Interesting topic! 😎 Not a product per se, but certain Windows 2.x (2.03) compatible device drivers do function in Windows 3 […]
Show full quote

Hi! Interesting topic! 😎
Not a product per se, but certain Windows 2.x (2.03) compatible device drivers do function in Windows 3.0's RM.
Like graphics drivers. Though only Windows 1/2 programs seem to benefit from this,
since Windows then uses the old colour palette.

That's interesting to know 😉
So a Hercules monochrome display driver for example for windows 2.0 real-mode will work in 3.0 / real mode?

Cyberdyne wrote on 2021-02-19, 07:33:

I just wanted to start an experiment to make a hybrid Windows 2.11 / Windows 3.0. Make it look and feel like Windows 2.11. Because the windows button images and many visual resources are inside the video drivers.

Yes, this should work. I used older SVGA drivers before.
Like the PVGA1A drivers for Windows 2.03.
But beware, drivers for Windows /386 may or may not work.
I'm sorry, I can't give a better explanation here. Since Windows /286 and /386 were built on various version numbers (2.03, 2.11, 2.01? etc), which could also be the culprit here if a 2.x driver doesn't work in 3.0 RM.

Anyway, here's a little demonstration of the Win 2.x driver on 3.0 RM.
It was included as a little gag. The tablet runs Lander 3.0 in Windows 3.0's Real-Mode.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gXfHpedtY

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-19, 06:12:

What about printer drivers?

That's a good question, I seriously don't know.
Printers were a special case in Windows 2.x, I believe.
They still could be installed / removed after installation of Windows.. In Control Panel, if memory serves.

Added all 3 versions of Aldus Pagemaker and 2 versions of Z-Soft PC Paintbrush Plus for windows that work in real-mode on Windows 3.0...

Cheers,
Terrence

Added Beckertools Plus 2.0 😀

Links removed. Please don't link to them, thanks.

Stiletto wrote on 2021-02-20, 02:30:

Links removed. Please don't link to them, thanks.

Hi Stiletto,

I'm sorry, I've only been a member of this forum for a few weeks,
and I wasn't aware it's not allowed to post links to abandonware / old software...

I'll make sure not to do it again in the future,
Terrence

Jo22 wrote on 2021-02-19, 10:22:

Yes, this should work. I used older SVGA drivers before. Like the PVGA1A drivers for Windows 2.03. But beware, drivers for Wind […]
Show full quote

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-19, 06:12:

Jo22 wrote on 2021-02-19, 05:20:

Hi! Interesting topic! 😎 Not a product per se, but certain Windows 2.x (2.03) compatible device drivers do function in Windows 3 […]
Show full quote

Hi! Interesting topic! 😎
Not a product per se, but certain Windows 2.x (2.03) compatible device drivers do function in Windows 3.0's RM.
Like graphics drivers. Though only Windows 1/2 programs seem to benefit from this,
since Windows then uses the old colour palette.

That's interesting to know 😉
So a Hercules monochrome display driver for example for windows 2.0 real-mode will work in 3.0 / real mode?

Cyberdyne wrote on 2021-02-19, 07:33:

I just wanted to start an experiment to make a hybrid Windows 2.11 / Windows 3.0. Make it look and feel like Windows 2.11. Because the windows button images and many visual resources are inside the video drivers.

Yes, this should work. I used older SVGA drivers before.
Like the PVGA1A drivers for Windows 2.03.
But beware, drivers for Windows /386 may or may not work.
I'm sorry, I can't give a better explanation here. Since Windows /286 and /386 were built on various version numbers (2.03, 2.11, 2.01? etc), which could also be the culprit here if a 2.x driver doesn't work in 3.0 RM.

Anyway, here's a little demonstration of the Win 2.x driver on 3.0 RM.
It was included as a little gag. The tablet runs Lander 3.0 in Windows 3.0's Real-Mode.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gXfHpedtY

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-19, 06:12:

What about printer drivers?

That's a good question, I seriously don't know.
Printers were a special case in Windows 2.x, I believe.
They still could be installed / removed after installation of Windows.. In Control Panel, if memory serves.

Hello jo22,

Could you point me to this real-mode supported game you show in the video you call "Lander",
so i can track it down, and add it to the list ?

Thanks!,
Terrence

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-20, 04:02:

Hello jo22, […]
Show full quote

Jo22 wrote on 2021-02-19, 10:22:

Yes, this should work. I used older SVGA drivers before. Like the PVGA1A drivers for Windows 2.03. But beware, drivers for Wind […]
Show full quote

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-19, 06:12:

That's interesting to know 😉
So a Hercules monochrome display driver for example for windows 2.0 real-mode will work in 3.0 / real mode?

Cyberdyne wrote on 2021-02-19, 07:33:

I just wanted to start an experiment to make a hybrid Windows 2.11 / Windows 3.0. Make it look and feel like Windows 2.11. Because the windows button images and many visual resources are inside the video drivers.

Yes, this should work. I used older SVGA drivers before.
Like the PVGA1A drivers for Windows 2.03.
But beware, drivers for Windows /386 may or may not work.
I'm sorry, I can't give a better explanation here. Since Windows /286 and /386 were built on various version numbers (2.03, 2.11, 2.01? etc), which could also be the culprit here if a 2.x driver doesn't work in 3.0 RM.

Anyway, here's a little demonstration of the Win 2.x driver on 3.0 RM.
It was included as a little gag. The tablet runs Lander 3.0 in Windows 3.0's Real-Mode.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gXfHpedtY

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-19, 06:12:

What about printer drivers?

That's a good question, I seriously don't know.
Printers were a special case in Windows 2.x, I believe.
They still could be installed / removed after installation of Windows.. In Control Panel, if memory serves.

Hello jo22,

Could you point me to this real-mode supported game you show in the video you call "Lander",
so i can track it down, and add it to the list ?

Thanks!,
Terrence

Hi, yes, sure.
https://archive.org/details/win3_LANDER

I believe there were quite some more games that not only run on Windows 3.1, but also Windows 3.0, too.

However, there doesn't seem to be a list that covers which of them are/were Real-Mode compatible.

So I think we need to check them manually for compatibility.

Luckily, the internet archive has many of the old Shareware CDs archived.
So we can go back to say, 1988 to 1992 releases of Shareware CDs and run the games on Windows 3.0 in Real-Mode.

Alternatively, there's also internet archive itself, of course.
It has a large collection of freeware/shareware applications for Windows 3.1x.

Another site used to be win3game.com
It housed many of these free/shareware Win 3.x games and had a Win 3 theme.
Unfortunately, the site went down after just ~2-3 years.

Here's the archived version :

https://web.archive.org/web/20180103132518/ht … w.win3game.com/

Jo22 wrote on 2021-02-20, 04:39:

Hi, yes, sure. https://archive.org/details/win3_LANDER […]
Show full quote

radiance32 wrote on 2021-02-20, 04:02:

Hello jo22, […]
Show full quote

Jo22 wrote on 2021-02-19, 10:22:

Yes, this should work. I used older SVGA drivers before. Like the PVGA1A drivers for Windows 2.03. But beware, drivers for Wind […]
Show full quote

Yes, this should work. I used older SVGA drivers before.
Like the PVGA1A drivers for Windows 2.03.
But beware, drivers for Windows /386 may or may not work.
I'm sorry, I can't give a better explanation here. Since Windows /286 and /386 were built on various version numbers (2.03, 2.11, 2.01? etc), which could also be the culprit here if a 2.x driver doesn't work in 3.0 RM.

Anyway, here's a little demonstration of the Win 2.x driver on 3.0 RM.
It was included as a little gag. The tablet runs Lander 3.0 in Windows 3.0's Real-Mode.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gXfHpedtY

That's a good question, I seriously don't know.
Printers were a special case in Windows 2.x, I believe.
They still could be installed / removed after installation of Windows.. In Control Panel, if memory serves.

Hello jo22,

Could you point me to this real-mode supported game you show in the video you call "Lander",
so i can track it down, and add it to the list ?

Thanks!,
Terrence

Hi, yes, sure.
https://archive.org/details/win3_LANDER

I believe there were quite some more games that not only run on Windows 3.1, but also Windows 3.0, too.

However, there doesn't seem to be a list that covers which of them are/were Real-Mode compatible.

So I think we need to check them manually for compatibility.

Luckily, the internet archive has many of the old Shareware CDs archived.
So we can go back to say, 1988 to 1992 releases of Shareware CDs and run the games on Windows 3.0 in Real-Mode.

Alternatively, there's also internet archive itself, of course.
It has a large collection of freeware/shareware applications for Windows 3.1x.

Another site used to be win3game.com
It housed many of these free/shareware Win 3.x games and had a Win 3 theme.
Unfortunately, the site went down after just ~2-3 years.

Here's the archived version :

https://web.archive.org/web/20180103132518/ht … w.win3game.com/

Thanks 😀
I'm gonna have a look at that archive link and try out a few games, see if they run in real-mode win 3.0...
If anyone wants to give me a hand, feel free to help! 😀
If you have system that supports standard or protected mode, just start windows with: win /r
and you'll be running in real-mode and can test the software. This only works in windows 3.0 and 3.0a, not in 3.1x ! 😀

Cheers!,
Terrence

I started a small project during 2020 with an aim of running Windows 3.0 real mode applications on my Sharp PC-7100 (CGA mono/8086)
It has now "crept" (as with most of my hobbies) to include a "Turbo XT" desktop w/ VGA

It was a nostalgia trip for me as a kid I had a 286/640K and a Hercules display and Windows 3.0 Real-Mode was all I could run
Trying to remember the games and apps I used is the difficult part 😀

I will add a few items here for now but when I get back to my project folder I remember there being quite a number of games that worked.
There's also a "hello world" example I wrote in watcom which was kind-of fun 😀

* Microsoft Project [Working Model] 1.0

From WEP
* Wordzap
* Tuts Tomb
* SkiFree
* Pegged
* Idlewild
* Minesweeper
* Taipei (Mahjong)
* Tripeaks
* Tetravex
* LifeGen
* Klotski

Added some screenshots for fun - these were taken from 86box configured with the BIOS and CPU from the sharp
One of which is a table copy/paste from Excel into Word - pretty cool for real mode!

One thing to note is that there's a number of software that will run in real mode but will struggle on the limited vertical resolution of the CGA driver.
EGA, VGA or Hercules will yield a better experience

I've got some videos and articles coming a bit later and if there's any relevant Win3.0 RM stuff I'll try to remember to post back on this thread

4xtx wrote on 2021-03-02, 11:22:

I started a small project during 2020 with an aim of running Windows 3.0 real mode applications on my Sharp PC-7100 (CGA mono/80 […]
Show full quote

I started a small project during 2020 with an aim of running Windows 3.0 real mode applications on my Sharp PC-7100 (CGA mono/8086)
It has now "crept" (as with most of my hobbies) to include a "Turbo XT" desktop w/ VGA

It was a nostalgia trip for me as a kid I had a 286/640K and a Hercules display and Windows 3.0 Real-Mode was all I could run
Trying to remember the games and apps I used is the difficult part 😀

I will add a few items here for now but when I get back to my project folder I remember there being quite a number of games that worked.
There's also a "hello world" example I wrote in watcom which was kind-of fun 😀

* Microsoft Project [Working Model] 1.0

From WEP
* Wordzap
* Tuts Tomb
* SkiFree
* Pegged
* Idlewild
* Minesweeper
* Taipei (Mahjong)
* Tripeaks
* Tetravex
* LifeGen
* Klotski

Added some screenshots for fun - these were taken from 86box configured with the BIOS and CPU from the sharp
One of which is a table copy/paste from Excel into Word - pretty cool for real mode!

One thing to note is that there's a number of software that will run in real mode but will struggle on the limited vertical resolution of the CGA driver.
EGA, VGA or Hercules will yield a better experience

I've got some videos and articles coming a bit later and if there's any relevant Win3.0 RM stuff I'll try to remember to post back on this thread

I found tut's tomb and tested it, works fine in real-mode on 8086, and added it to the list....
Can't find a suitable copy of WordZap though, maybe you can PM me a link...
I did find the Microsoft Project "working model", but it did'nt work, it requires a 286+ cpu... 🙁

I'll see if i can find the other games you mentioned and try them out, and add them to the list if they work 😀

Terrence

Hi everyone,

If any of you are wiling to join to help finding more Win 2.x/3.0 Real-Mode compatible games, please check some old compilations at the internet archive:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=wi ... %221973%22

- I've drawn the line for 1992, because that's when Windows 3.1 came out and Real-Mode compatibility was dropped. 😀
Don't get me wrong, many games from 1993 and beyond will still run on Windows 3.0, too, but likely require Standard-Mode or higher.
(And if we're really lucky, then *some* may still execute on Windows 3.0/808x in RM *IF* EMS is available.)

Personally, I believe the old CICA CD-ROMs contain early Windows 3.0 compatible games.
Also worth checking are the "Night Owl" series, though they are from 1993 and later, which rather is Windows 3.1 territory.

If you encounter a folder named "OLDWIN" or "WINOLD", please also have a look.
It may contain games from the Win 2.x or Windows/386 days.

Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-03, 01:45:

Hi everyone, […]
Show full quote

Hi everyone,

If any of you are wiling to join to help finding more Win 2.x/3.0 Real-Mode compatible games, please check some old compilations at the internet archive:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=wi ... %221973%22

- I've drawn the line for 1992, because that's when Windows 3.1 came out and Real-Mode compatibility was dropped. 😀
Don't get me wrong, many games from 1993 and beyond will still run on Windows 3.0, too, but likely require Standard-Mode or higher.
(And if we're really lucky, then *some* may still execute on Windows 3.0/808x in RM *IF* EMS is available.)

Personally, I believe the old CICA CD-ROMs contain early Windows 3.0 compatible games.
Also worth checking are the "Night Owl" series, though they are from 1993 and later, which rather is Windows 3.1 territory.

If you encounter a folder named "OLDWIN" or "WINOLD", please also have a look.
It may contain games from the Win 2.x or Windows/386 days.

Yeah, it's hard though, many titles for windows 3.0 from say 1991 or 1992 often refuse to run unless you're running in standard mode or higher,
but real-mode apps are rare, even if they are for windows 3.0 and were released just around when Windows 3.0 was released.

I've spent quite a few hours (or days) testing and trying to find real-mode apps for this list,
That's why I'm calling on the others reading this thread to give me a hand and post whatever you can find that runs,
if you're testing on a 286 or higher system, remember to test the application in real mode, by forcing windows 3.0 to start in real-mode by launching it with "win /r"
Also CPU wise, the apps on this list should run on ANY x86 system, so they should support 8086 CPUs and higher...

So please, if you have some time and know some old windows 3.0 apps,
give me a hand in finding real-mode supporting ones... you can use dosbox to run windows 3.0 and start it with "win /r" for guaranteed real-mode...

Also, if you post applications, please PM me the URL's where I can download them so i can inventorize and test them and maybe add screenshots etc...,
as it's often hard to find the correct version of some obscure application from those times on abandonware forums...

Thanks!,
Terrence

I started a basic archive to capture software I successfully got working on Windows 3.0 in real mode with 86box configured as a 8088/640K in CGA and VGA (using the hacked driver to work with 8088).
My scope is 8088/8086 and CGA/VGA only at this stage. I may consider Hercules but it'd likely only be in 86box as I sadly don't own a suitable hardware display 😀

This is just a Proof Of Concept release so be kind 😀
File can be found http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_01_11Mar2021.zip

I started this concept a while ago in an attempt to have a stack of software to test on my retro projects which are 8086 and 8088 based units.
It's a throw-back to my earlier days where as a kid I had a 8086/640K with CGA and used to scour CICA CD's or Magazine disks (via laplink!) in a desperate search to find software that would work on my modest hardware.
While 3.0 Real-Mode is extremely limited - it has a certain charm to it and for many years it was my only GUI 😀

Short-term goal is to complete testing of the CICA July 1992 archive and carry out hardware testing.
I will most likely make another thread focused more on the testing results and methods.
Feel free to use any of the sources / images for your project 😀

Note: My images were quickly snipped - often you will see MS-DOS Executive in the background, I find this much faster to use than "File Manager" when working with many directories and files.

4xtx wrote on 2021-03-11, 13:20:

I started a basic archive to capture software I successfully got working on Windows 3.0 in real mode with 86box configured as a […]
Show full quote

I started a basic archive to capture software I successfully got working on Windows 3.0 in real mode with 86box configured as a 8088/640K in CGA and VGA (using the hacked driver to work with 8088).
My scope is 8088/8086 and CGA/VGA only at this stage. I may consider Hercules but it'd likely only be in 86box as I sadly don't own a suitable hardware display 😀

This is just a Proof Of Concept release so be kind 😀
File can be found http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_01_11Mar2021.zip

I started this concept a while ago in an attempt to have a stack of software to test on my retro projects which are 8086 and 8088 based units.
It's a throw-back to my earlier days where as a kid I had a 8086/640K with CGA and used to scour CICA CD's or Magazine disks (via laplink!) in a desperate search to find software that would work on my modest hardware.
While 3.0 Real-Mode is extremely limited - it has a certain charm to it and for many years it was my only GUI 😀

Short-term goal is to complete testing of the CICA July 1992 archive and carry out hardware testing.
I will most likely make another thread focused more on the testing results and methods.
Feel free to use any of the sources / images for your project 😀

Note: My images were quickly snipped - often you will see MS-DOS Executive in the background, I find this much faster to use than "File Manager" when working with many directories and files.

Thanks a lot, this is great 😀
I'm gonna look at your file and add them to the list during the next couple of days 😀

Terrence

Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-03, 01:45:

Hi everyone, […]
Show full quote

Hi everyone,

If any of you are wiling to join to help finding more Win 2.x/3.0 Real-Mode compatible games, please check some old compilations at the internet archive:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=wi ... %221973%22

Personally, I believe the old CICA CD-ROMs contain early Windows 3.0 compatible games.
Also worth checking are the "Night Owl" series, though they are from 1993 and later, which rather is Windows 3.1 territory.

This was a very helpful idea - I had forgotten about CICA and in fact I had the 1992 CD-ROM set and would often hook this up to the "big computer" and laplink to my little XT and keep clicking until I found something that loaded 😀