domomex89 wrote on 2021-02-19, 10:04:

LucasArts - Most of LucasArts' adventures are actually pretty bad. If I were to pick the worst then I think would be Zak McKracken and Sam & Max Hit the Road.

l o l

I'm a huge fan of both so my opinion is what it is, but saying "most of LucasArts adventures are actually pretty bad" like you were some authority stating objective facts when the games have received so much praise, are loved by millions and reached a legendary status is an "interesting" take...maybe you just don't like adventure games?

Still let's tray to play the game of "worst" based on my own opinion:

- Sierra: Codename:ICEMAN is shit in my book. It's frustrating, the submarines sequences feel like random bullshit and are uninteresting to play, it could have been just so much better. I still replayed it less than 3 months ago and it was still shit, oh well, guess I'm a masochist. I've never been a huge fan of the Manhunter games either. About every other game ranges from "good" to "amazing" for me.

- Lucas: there's just not a single real bad game in the lot to be honest (yeah, that's the complete opposite of your take). I'd say Maniac Mansion and Zak McKracken were a little below par for my own preference, I still like them both dearly. Loom is short and conceptual with a low replayability, but amazingly well done and a great experience. The Dig, maybe a bit too hard, but I really loved going through it with the help of a walkthrough later on. Everything else is amazing.

Opinions 😀

LucasArts - The Dig, horrible typical american style story. Characters that act like retards aka typical american. Entire setting is meant to feel deep and impactful and all that but is instantly deleted by the fact that you only have 3 characters instead of a whole team while they all act as if there's like 10-20 people. Doesn't matter how actually pretty the background art is, still a waste of a game.

Sierra - Mainly the remakes, where they changed the game engine of the older games to point&click and made the graphics "prettier" (or in my opinion, absolutely ugly and killing the charm the games had)

BardBun wrote on 2021-02-19, 12:12:

act like retards aka typical american

From contruh-vershul!! click-baity OP to jingoistic envy-dick waving in 4 posts. This thread is going places!

VileR wrote on 2021-02-19, 12:36:

BardBun wrote on 2021-02-19, 12:12:

act like retards aka typical american

From contruh-vershul!! click-baity OP to jingoistic envy-dick waving in 4 posts. This thread is going places!

Aww, come on, you know what I mean. That typical military behaviour where the characters are written to act like stubborn 5 year olds in all of their decision making and all of the explaining and "ahh I figured this one out I'm smart" moments are also written and delivered that way.
That's just absolutely horribly writing and so typical of the american writing style, as everything in that gerne that contains military / space / officials / soldiers is always written that way. It makes you think why 5 year old adults were hired to do those jobs.

I was little bit disappointed with Full Throttle, and I am a biker myself. But maybe it was the expectations, that I would love the game. Sam n Max Hit the Road is my favorite.

In point & click adventures, Sierra first put the "adventure" by establishing the genre itself (meaning graphic rather than text-based) and LucasFilm/Arts added the "point & click" with the verb interface and dialog trees. So they are essentially the equivalent of what id Software was for first person shooters. In that sense, saying that LucasArts adventures are "pretty bad" and that you haven't played much of Sierra's catalogue would be like saying "All of Beethoven's music is pretty bad and I haven't heard much from those Mozart and Bach guys" when discussing classical music. It can certainly be a valid opinion, but don't be surprised if it is not taken seriously.

Clickbait aside, I would go with Escape from Monkey Island from LucasArts (Full Throttle I also consider weaker than the rest due to how short and simple it is, almost like an interactive movie, but the art style and presentation in general put it above Escape in my book). Escape from MI had so little impact on me back then that I barely remember anything about it other than it was 3D-based.

From Sierra, a few weeks ago I started replaying their adventures in chronological order, many of them for the first time (most of the parser-based ones) since my English wasn't good enough when I was a teen in the 90's. So I'm not ready for a final opinion yet, in general I've been enjoying them greatly, though my experience was tainted by a couple of obnoxious puzzles on KQ3 and SQ2 (I usually refuse to use walkthroughs for adventure games and when I do I feel it detracts from the general experience).

Id be interested to know what the OP considers a top adventure game if the lucasarts ones are IHO that bad.

Some red-hot takes in this thread.
Here's my luke-warm ones.
Sierra:
Codename: Iceman - boring game with a lackluster story that fails to capture the feeling the game wants to project
Police Quest - Procedural cop simulator isn't that fun. The game is way more fun and entertaining when you mess up as opposed to playing properly.
Freddie Pharkas - I just don't like westerns, the the humor/gameplay falls kind of flat to me.
Leisure Suit Larry - The jokes are ok, but the overall game as a whole can't be saved. The series as a whole is just kinda creepy and tone-deaf far too often for the humor to excuse it. If it were funnier, I'd excuse it.

LucasArts:
Grim Fandango - Tank controls and fiddly glitchy puzzles ruin an otherwise decent game
Full Throttle - lacks the charm and humor that drew me into Lucas Arts games.
Maniac Mansion - I could never really get into this game.
Any Monkey Island game after Curse - utterly devoid of soul. The only funny joke in Escape was the nose-eating duck.

Boohyaka wrote on 2021-02-19, 11:59:

I'm a huge fan of both so my opinion is what it is, but saying "most of LucasArts adventures are actually pretty bad" like you were some authority stating objective facts when the games have received so much praise, are loved by millions and reached a legendary status is an "interesting" take...maybe you just don't like adventure games?

I don't hate adventure games as a whole, I feel like some of LucasArts' adventure games didn't age very well. I can understand why they were groundbreaking at the time of their release though.

I feel like Maniac Mansion, Loom and Full Throttle are the LucasArts adventure games that aged well. (I didn't play all of the LucasArts adventures so I'm only saying the ones I actually played.)

I feel like the jokes in some of the LucasArts adventure games are forced.

Since we're doing opinions, I never liked the VGA, point and click remakes of the older Sierra titles. I preferred typing commands and walking with the arrow keys.

old man yells at cloud

Boohyaka wrote on 2021-02-19, 11:59:

I'm a huge fan of both so my opinion is what it is, but saying "most of LucasArts adventures are actually pretty bad" like you were some authority stating objective facts when the games have received so much praise, are loved by millions and reached a legendary status is an "interesting" take...maybe you just don't like adventure games?

What I mean to say that most of the LucasArts adventure games are pretty average, some of them mediocre.
I was so disappointed when I played the first Monkey Island, Sam & Max Hit the Road, and Day of the Tentacle.
I thought they were going to be good games, but they disappointed me so much.

domomex89 wrote on 2021-02-19, 10:04:

LucasArts - Most of LucasArts' adventures are actually pretty bad. If I were to pick the worst then I think would be Zak McKracken and Sam & Max Hit the Road.
Sierra - I haven't played a lot of Sierra's adventure games so I can't really say much...

😤

Zak is one of my fav games. so... I think the weakest LucasArts title would be maybe Loom for me.. I know it gets high praise I just never liked it.

I think Sierra's weakest is probably KQ1+KQ2 are the weakest as far as game design goes with no real linking plotline between all the events. ( but that was very typical of game design back them, aka treasure hunt adventure games).

Black Cauldron/Mother Goose is for kids so specifically dumbed down on purpose and dont count.

BardBun wrote on 2021-02-19, 12:12:

Characters that act like r******

Wow, coming in hot with the slurs here, huh. Nice.

On topic, it's hard to pick. Really I think a more accurate descriptor than "worst" might be "least good," since I can't think of any that aren't at least solid enough. Except maybe King's Quest VIII, but that's just low-hanging fruit.

domomex89 wrote on 2021-02-20, 11:52:

What I mean to say that most of the LucasArts adventure games are pretty average, some of them mediocre. I was so disappointed […]
Show full quote

Boohyaka wrote on 2021-02-19, 11:59:

I'm a huge fan of both so my opinion is what it is, but saying "most of LucasArts adventures are actually pretty bad" like you were some authority stating objective facts when the games have received so much praise, are loved by millions and reached a legendary status is an "interesting" take...maybe you just don't like adventure games?

What I mean to say that most of the LucasArts adventure games are pretty average, some of them mediocre.
I was so disappointed when I played the first Monkey Island, Sam & Max Hit the Road, and Day of the Tentacle.
I thought they were going to be good games, but they disappointed me so much.

Which adventure games do you like?

I am not that into the genre myself... I feel like these games are built around selling guides and hot line advice and they aren't that engaging if you are trying to play it without assistance because the puzzles are deliberately obtuse. But the story telling, music, art, and writing are all very good. I can't think of any games by another publisher - at least from the DOS era - that do it better.

Hi. I'm the guy who played Monkey Island 1 as his first PC game ever in '92, and didnt touch another point adventure game until Monkey Island 2 in 2009~ish (remaster) and then again in 2019 when I got the retro fever.

The Lucas Arts catalogue is pretty solid. Recently I've played from Fate of Atlantis all the way thru to The Curse of Monkey Island . I do plan on playing the early ones like Maniac Mansion and Loom (and the other Indiana Jones one).

For me, Day of the Tentacle held up the most in terms of fun, Sam n Max was overall fine but let down by the ending and a few too many weird as hell puzzles. The Dig was absolutely stunning with its art and music, I honestly felt like this was the only game that was the one that I was most addicted to. Full Throttle was also good but I didn't really like the biker fighting. Still dunno what to do, honestly. Monkey Island 1 holds a place with me and I play this far too much that I think I'm going to wear it out. Monkey Island 2 feels like it drags on a bit and let's not get started on THAT ending. I can imagine if we had a real trilogy by the OG devs, it would make some sense and redeem itsself but thats not gonna happen. Fate of Atlantis felt like a real adventure and the last "level" was really fun. I rate Curse of Monkey Island pretty highly, better than Monkey Island 2 imo.

For me, I put Sam n Max alongside Monkey Island 2 down the bottom and then Day of the Tentacle and The Dig at the top. But this doesn't mean Sam n Max/Monkey Island 2 are BAD. They are still good and worth playing. Many enjoyable bits, some good gags but like I said, their endings leave a lot to be desired...

I hear great things about LOOM and Maniac Mansion. I will play them in the next few months I'm sure.

I generally don't like point-and-click adventures very much, for various reasons. I played some old demos of LucasArts stuff (the Passport to Adventure combo demo that was available from their FTP) and I kind of liked The Secret of Monkey Island for the cute art in some places (like those oddly shaped houses with lights in the windows at the beginning, it sets up a cozy feeling to me, although it's never elaborated upon in the game as far as I can tell). I felt like these games belonged to the DOS era that I was nostalgic about at that moment, while I had not actually played any adventures back in those days. I also liked the Indiana Jones demo for the same style EGA art that felt nostalgic. However, what was actually happening to the character did not feel particularly engaging and made an impression on me as if an Indy movie was trying to be retold as a point-and-click adventure game, something that I fail to find exciting actually.

I never developed an urge to actually play any of the above games in full, even though they're available for purchase.

Quite some time later I chanced upon a non-playable demo of Monkey Island 2. This time I also did some research a.k.a. read publicly available reviews and user impressions that contained a lot of praise. However it made me seriously question if that praise was actually deserved. Now I have not bothered to find out what the whole game is about but I'm assuming that the demo showcases some of the better highlights from the story. And what would those be? There's a lot of lengthy dialogues with NPCs where the player is presented with a choice of inane replies that don't make much sense or seemingly lead the conversation anywhere. It appears that you obtain like one item for some puzzle and/or a hint by wading through interactions that are full of attempted humour that I personally fail to find even remotely amusing. Pirate spitting contest huh? That's what supposed to be funny? Maybe there's some cultural barrier that prevents me from appreciating that but I had a feeling that the entire scene is silly and protracted for no reason, except to possibly increase playing time? And there's a huge section of the demo showing how Guybrush gets a library card and a few books, which I too do not understand what exactly is supposed to be funny here. Discounting the part where he lies about his name, age and address (scarcely amusing but at least a bit out of the ordinary), it's about as funny as getting a library card in real life. I cannot imagine wanting to play this when I was a kid and even less so now. The art is pretty good though, that's without dispute.