Yeah I'm gen z. I just like old ass games. Your translation thing is working great I didn't even notice

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-08-04, 16:55:

What pc would you recommend for games from the Wing Commander era up to half life?

Wing Commander I is exatly the kind of game that will be problematic. Not only is it speed-sensitive (which you can solve by disabling cache and lowering FSB using software) as Demolition-man already mentioned, it also needs a LOT of conventional RAM, probably more than you can free up with the TSR for SBLive present. Origin really was pushing the envelope at that time, Ultima Underworld was comparably challenging and Ultima VII was unreal (pun intended 😉 )

For games like that I use a 486SX33 (well, actually UMC U5S-33) with a Sound Blaster 1.0 replica and a Roland MPU-401AT with MT-32 (and SC55 for newer GM stuff). De-turboing lets that system go down to XT speeds and at full speeds is perfect for those Origin games like Wing Commander.

For late DOS stuff (Doom onwards, basically), I have a P3-600 on a BX board with S3 AGP and three ISA sound cards (Aztech card for real OPL3, WSS and bug-free MPU-401 UART, SB AWE64 Gold for SB16 and EMU and Gravis Ultrasound for Ultrasound).

Now, if you were to look up how much all that would cost today on auction sites, it would add up to a LOT of money (and even though I bought, found or swapped a lot of that stuff some time ago and never for top tier prices, it was still a lot), but you don't need all those flashy bits. What you really need for trouble-free DOS is an ISA sound card that has an OPL3 core or 1:1 clone and hardware Sound Blaster (preferably Pro 2.0) compatibility (so no TSRs needed). The rest is - comparatively - window dressing. So any system with an ISA slot will make your life a lot easier. Not that DOS with PCI is impossible, but given you're new to this game and struggling, I'd strongly suggest keeping it simple, particularly if you mention Wing Commander as one of your targets.

If you really want to do Wing Commander (which ran fine on my old 386-16 and was unplayable on a Pentium 60) and Half Life (which very much likes a P2/P3) on the same system, look for a Via C3 clocked around 1GHz but that can be slowed down to XT speeds. But make sure you haven an ISA slot. And tbh, even though you *can* do all of this, this is the sort of build to do when confident and competent with both this sort of old hardware and the software before trying it. Don't try to compete in the Olympics if you haven't figured out how to walk yet.

However, one thing at a time. You have a sytem that can do a lot if you sort out the RAM problems. I'd focus on that now and only pick up a new project once you have actually gotten that thing to do what it can do.

There was a time in 1994-96 (!) when it was more accessible to play the SNES version of Wing Commander. Did DOS WC even see a EA Classics CD-ROM rerelease?

There's a lot of hard reality with early DOS games pre-32-bit-extenders. Game-specific boot disks were technically advised by support. Origin games (and by extension, Looking Glass) were the case for anti-Windows holdovers. 😀

dionb wrote on 2024-08-04, 20:32:

Wing Commander I is exatly the kind of game that will be problematic. Not only is it speed-sensitive (which you can solve by dis […]
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Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-08-04, 16:55:

What pc would you recommend for games from the Wing Commander era up to half life?

Wing Commander I is exatly the kind of game that will be problematic. Not only is it speed-sensitive (which you can solve by disabling cache and lowering FSB using software) as Demolition-man already mentioned, it also needs a LOT of conventional RAM, probably more than you can free up with the TSR for SBLive present. Origin really was pushing the envelope at that time, Ultima Underworld was comparably challenging and Ultima VII was unreal (pun intended 😉 )

For games like that I use a 486SX33 (well, actually UMC U5S-33) with a Sound Blaster 1.0 replica and a Roland MPU-401AT with MT-32 (and SC55 for newer GM stuff). De-turboing lets that system go down to XT speeds and at full speeds is perfect for those Origin games like Wing Commander.

For late DOS stuff (Doom onwards, basically), I have a P3-600 on a BX board with S3 AGP and three ISA sound cards (Aztech card for real OPL3, WSS and bug-free MPU-401 UART, SB AWE64 Gold for SB16 and EMU and Gravis Ultrasound for Ultrasound).

Now, if you were to look up how much all that would cost today on auction sites, it would add up to a LOT of money (and even though I bought, found or swapped a lot of that stuff some time ago and never for top tier prices, it was still a lot), but you don't need all those flashy bits. What you really need for trouble-free DOS is an ISA sound card that has an OPL3 core or 1:1 clone and hardware Sound Blaster (preferably Pro 2.0) compatibility (so no TSRs needed). The rest is - comparatively - window dressing. So any system with an ISA slot will make your life a lot easier. Not that DOS with PCI is impossible, but given you're new to this game and struggling, I'd strongly suggest keeping it simple, particularly if you mention Wing Commander as one of your targets.

However, one thing at a time. You have a sytem that can do a lot if you sort out the RAM problems. I'd focus on that now and only pick up a new project once you have actually gotten that thing to do what it can do.

Dude thanks for the encouragement it's always awesome to have someone post some advice with optimism! That late dos pc you have sounds... FREAKING GODLIKE. That is the ultimate pc that maybe I will achieve someday.

leileilol wrote on 2024-08-04, 20:35:

There was a time in 1994-96 (!) when it was more accessible to play the SNES version of Wing Commander. Did DOS WC even see a EA Classics CD-ROM rerelease?

There's a lot of hard reality with early DOS games pre-32-bit-extenders. Game-specific boot disks were technically advised by support. Origin games (and by extension, Looking Glass) were the case for anti-Windows holdovers. 😀

I do have a snes clone I might try to find a snes copy of Wing Commander

Wing Commander 1 & 2 are available as an affordable set at gog.com. I would like to test it myself. The question now is whether you can test the gog DOSBox version on a real retro PC.
https://www.gog.com/en/game/wing_commander_1_2

leileilol wrote on 2024-08-04, 20:35:

Did DOS WC even see a EA Classics CD-ROM rerelease?

Not by EA at this moment, but Software Toolworks had published a CD containing both Ultima VI and WC1. Installing, however, might be a challenge due to missing files in MS-DOS 6, according to this discussion thread.

A lot of the Stoolworks CD bundles all had dos specific annoyances. it's why they went super budget tier after Win95, and also they don't fully install the games.