The DX50 has the coolness factor. By playing with cache en/disable and frequency you can get quite far down. To me this would be a keeper.

The P133 is the inbetweener. It sure does matter dos stuff beter than the DX50, but anything the P2 will do better.

The P2 has an edge on the latest DOS and earlier W9x stuff. I suppose it's a 440BX so it should support even the P3 Katmai to gain a little and run 800x600 more smoothly.

P4 Will cover all latest W9x stuff the P2 struggles with.

The C2D will be the next inbetweener. It'll run lots of XP stuff, but again anything the i7 will run faster. That is, ofc, if there's no special game requirement to XP that W7 can't run.

The i5. Most stuff that runs on XP will also run great on Win7. Does this motherboard have double PCIe? If so you might keep the 6450 and just add the 1030. Dual boot to Win7 / 10 (or 11) and run all XP stuff on it.

That would render the C2D and P133 out.

Personally I'd keep all but if you don't have the room this would be my choice: DX50, P2, P3, i5.

I agree with you that the DX50 should be there, the only problem I see is the need to have an extra serial mouse on the table.

The i5 (PC6) is not really optional, it does not have W7 but W10/W11 and will be used both as an emulator base (Dosbox, Amiga, Spectrum, and 8&16 bits consoles) and as a base for the rest and be able to distribute files, browse, search for solutions, youtube videos... In fact I should have said that I have 3 free slots for 5 retro PCs.

So seen this way, I have 2 slots for the P133, Pentium2, Pentium 4 and Core2Duo. The P133 I would leave out because it is in the middle of the DX50 and the P2.

In any case, I will probably not sell any of them and keep the two that I can't have active and rotate them over time.

Just a comment on PC1 and PC2:

PC1
OAK OTI087 1Mb ISA - replace it with something better. OAK cards are slow.
Sound Blaster CT4170 Creative Vibra 16 ISA - Replace it with any other CT1XXX or CT2XXX

PC2
Sound Blaster 16 Vibra CT2940 ISA - it's not a Vibra card

Of course unless you want these cards in the first place 😉

I know the OAK is a pretty slow card... but who cares? I mean, I don't need that PC to be fast, quite the opposite. Because upwards I have the P133 or the PII350.

As for ISA sound cards, I have a few, I can switch them between PCs to have the ones I'm most interested in:

• Sound Blaster CT4170 Creative Vibra 16 ISA.
• Sound Blaster 16 Vibra CT2940 ISA
• Sound Blaster AWE64 CT4520
• Shuttle HOT 247 OPTi 82C933 ISA

jjdelalamo wrote on 2024-11-10, 17:39:

I agree with you that the DX50 should be there, the only problem I see is the need to have an extra serial mouse on the table.

I'm pretty sure, there are converters to use PS/2 mice on COM ports? Maybe only some mice that have "dual mode" thing works, but it might be worth a shot?

Save the experiences you can get with them.. Like arcade machines.

The P133 is the best allrounder... A Yamaha YMF715-719 sound card can produce OPL3 for Duke Nukem and 3d sound for windows.. Starcraft, Diablo. A Voodoo/3dfx card opens more doors to other games.

The P2 can run Half-Life.

The P4 can run Doom 3.

My friend, you are on a wrong footing here: you don’t get rid of the old machines, you only get more of them!

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-11-12, 17:42:

My friend, you are on a wrong footing here: you don’t get rid of the old machines, you only get more of them!

👆

This is the way.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2024-11-12, 17:42:

My friend, you are on a wrong footing here: you don’t get rid of the old machines, you only get more of them!

Ha ha, you don't have to worry too much about that, the truth is that I don't plan to sell any of them, I already did it in the past and I regret it.
But... space is finite, and I don't have so many hands to use them all at the same time!!! Sadly some will go in the fridge.

MikeSG wrote on 2024-11-12, 16:17:

Save the experiences you can get with them.. Like arcade machines. […]
Show full quote

Save the experiences you can get with them.. Like arcade machines.

The P133 is the best allrounder... A Yamaha YMF715-719 sound card can produce OPL3 for Duke Nukem and 3d sound for windows.. Starcraft, Diablo. A Voodoo/3dfx card opens more doors to other games.

The P2 can run Half-Life.

The P4 can run Doom 3.

So Sound Blaster 16 CT2940 ISA is the best card of the pack? Better than Sound Blaster CT4170 or Shuttle HOT 247 OPTi 82C933?
In any case I guess AWE64 is above all of them right?

H3nrik V! wrote on 2024-11-12, 09:30:

jjdelalamo wrote on 2024-11-10, 17:39:

I agree with you that the DX50 should be there, the only problem I see is the need to have an extra serial mouse on the table.

I'm pretty sure, there are converters to use PS/2 mice on COM ports? Maybe only some mice that have "dual mode" thing works, but it might be worth a shot?

I have been looking at several posts here and github projects. The problem is that having a KVM switch in between, these solutions usually don't work.
And of course a passive converter won't work unless you have a serial/PS2 compatible mouse. But we are back to the problem of the KVM switch which I don't think has that feature.

Spot 1, As you say PC6 is pretty muc h locked in.

Spot 2, WinXP has no compatibility issues with hardware so may as well go as fast as you can. I would use the Core 2 Duo Late Win98 games would probably play fine here as well, eg GTA3, Diablo 2.

Spot 3
The P2 350. Faster CPU would be nice for Win9x side of gaming but this will play even the most demanding dos games which is your focus. I find I do just about all my pre XP gaming on my P3 600.

Spot 4 The 486. for the authentic dos feel. Plus the P2 can cover the games that struggle on a 486 just as good as a Pentium.

Re the serial mouse, I also use a KVM, and a single PC that needs a serial mouse. I just have it directly plugged into the PC and pushed out the way when not in use. They don't take up much space and been a dos machine you don't use the mouse much anyway.

My approach coincides almost 100% with yours. Some comments.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-11-14, 02:47:

Spot 1, As you say PC6 is pretty muc h locked in.

Correct.

Spot 2, WinXP has no compatibility issues with hardware so may as well go as fast as you can. I would use the Core 2 Duo Late Win98 games would probably play fine here as well, eg GTA3, Diablo 2.

For everything Windows related (WinXP/Win9x) I think the Core2Duo can do without problem.

Spot 3 The P2 350. Faster CPU would be nice for Win9x side of gaming but this will play even the most demanding dos games which is your focus. I find I do just about all my pre XP gaming on my P3 600.

Spot 4 The 486. for the authentic dos feel. Plus the P2 can cover the games that struggle on a 486 just as good as a Pentium.

Re the serial mouse, I also use a KVM, and a single PC that needs a serial mouse. I just have it directly plugged into the PC and pushed out the way when not in use. They don't take up much space and been a dos machine you don't use the mouse much anyway.

For MSDOS:
The 486 for being as faithful as possible to the era. The mouse issue, as you say, is minor, you can hide it in a corner and bring it out only when needed.

The P133 is in no man's land. Too close to the DX50 and too underpowered for the latest MSDOS games.

The Pentium 4 too out of place for MSDOS. Although it really works without a problem with the SB Live! Value.

The P2 350 can handle almost everything, although with some titles at high resolutions (Quake, Blood, Duke Nuken 3D, Shadow Warrior, Hexen II...) it struggles a bit.

I don't know if it would be a good idea to go for a P2 400 or better a P3 or a Super Socket 7 to have a PC that can handle everything for MSDOS. It would be essential to have an ISA slot of course.

Agreed on the modern PC. Only change would be to install Windows 11 (no it officially doesn't support it, but with a few simple hacks you can do it) to ensure continuing security updates after Windows 10 support stops in a few months' time.

As for Win98, the Core2Duo is a PCIe system which might limit GPU options. I'd suggest rather using the P4 for Win98 (or find an AGP-based motherboard with Win98 chipset for your Core2Duo). It could also do most WinXP stuff fine, and I'd argue that whatever XP stuff won't run on it will work fine on the modern system.

For late DOS I'd go for the P2-350, in fact I'd look into something a bit faster. The last DOS games came out around 1997 and could seriously stress contemporary hardware. I use a P3-500 for it and feel that's about right.

That leaves a single system and there I'd go for the 486, but suggest underclocking it to 33MHz so it's better suited to 1991-1993 speed sensitive stuff.

As for the "management tasks (copying files between partitions and over LAN)" - just use FTP for file transfer, run mTCP with its FTP server on the DOS boxes, an old FTP server on Win98 and run the FTP client (Filezilla FTW) on the modern box to transfer stuff. Dead easy and no need for additional operating systems on the old machines.

"t also has serial mouse so I can't connect it to the KVM and it forces me to have an extra mouse exclusively for it" - get a serial-PS/2 adapter (like ps2toserial) and you can hook it up to KVM.

And if you are getting new old stuff, focus on some better sound options than all those Creative things. The DOS boxes deserve bug-free MIDI for starters.

I'm guessing it can, but does the MB in PC #2 support MMX Pentiums? If so, I'd run an MMX 233 in it, and move the AWE 64 from the PC #3 into it and then get rid of PC #1 and #3.

An MMX 233 give you more fine tune control of slowing down the system. And the extra headroom will let later DOS games shine. For the very end of DOS era, they should run fine under Windows with the P4 system.

SScorpio wrote on 2024-11-14, 12:52:

I'm guessing it can, but does the MB in PC #2 support MMX Pentiums? If so, I'd run an MMX 233 in it, and move the AWE 64 from the PC #3 into it and then get rid of PC #1 and #3.

An MMX 233 give you more fine tune control of slowing down the system. And the extra headroom will let later DOS games shine. For the very end of DOS era, they should run fine under Windows with the P4 system.

According to what this website says, yes it should support the P233 MMX.

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/edom-wintech-mp071b

This forum is treacherous, I was coming with the idea of setting aside two computers and I already have a PIII and a P233MMX on the shopping list.

jjdelalamo wrote on 2024-11-14, 16:14:

According to what this website says, yes it should support the P233 MMX.

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/edom-wintech-mp071b

This forum is treacherous, I was coming with the idea of setting aside two computers and I already have a PIII and a P233MMX on the shopping list.

At least we've been nice and didn't point out that a Sandy or Ivybridge i5 are still dirt cheap and make great XP machines since your Haswell wouldn't be optimal as it maybe missing drivers as Haswell and original Ryzen where when XP support was dropped. 😀

dionb wrote on 2024-11-14, 12:19:

"t also has serial mouse so I can't connect it to the KVM and it forces me to have an extra mouse exclusively for it" - get a serial-PS/2 adapter (like ps2toserial) and you can hook it up to KVM.

Be careful with that advice. I couldn't get the ps2toserial adapter from Serdashop to work with a couple of KVM's. I had better luck with the ISA card from this topic Another PS/2 Mouse ISA (ISA8) card adapter which works without problem with my KVM's. Also the serial/ps2 ISA card from aliexpress work with my KVM's although it is a bit picky regarding the mouse driver used in DOS.

jjdelalamo wrote on 2024-11-14, 16:14:

This forum is treacherous, I was coming with the idea of setting aside two computers and I already have a PIII and a P233MMX on the shopping list.

It is! I started out only wanting a Win9x box, I now have at least 12 setup at any one time.
But try not to go crazy, enjoy the hardware you already have, find the gaps in your setup and then spend your money.
Maybe your games work fine with your existing CPU's, maybe your not planning on external midi device making hanging note bugs a non issue.
But you don't know till you get started!

jjdelalamo wrote on 2024-11-14, 11:28:

I don't know if it would be a good idea to go for a P2 400 or better a P3 or a Super Socket 7 to have a PC that can handle everything for MSDOS. It would be essential to have an ISA slot of course.

As you already have the motherboard, I'd go with with Slot 1 P3.

I actually think the Pentium especially a 200 MMX captures the feel of the end of dos perfectly and would have maybe recommended this over the Slot 1 build given your dos focus.
It's just those last few games like you mentioned and you'll loose a decent Win9x rig.

Likewise the P4 would be perfect if you were more into Win9x gaming but wanted a bit of dos as well, it's capable machine for sure but doesn't suit your dos focus.