VOGONS


First post, by therealdadbeard

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So this happens in multiple games that have 2d and 3d elements mixed. For this example I use Still Life. This either happens when forcing MSAA/Filtering/AF. Sometimes it's a combination of those or just one of them. In this game the background will only be filtered when checking AF.

I have tried multiple combinations of scaling etc. but nothing that I did helps. The only time when it was fine when I was upscaling from a different resolution than my desktop which of course then completely skews the scaling.

Is there any option that can fix this? Mostly happens on animated things that are on the backround.

I attached some screenshots where you can see those thin black lines. They are very visible in gameplay.

Reply 1 of 6, by Ichisich

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Force filter only if not point sampled

But I would question the benefit of anisotropic filtering in this kind of games in general.
There are practically no oblique viewing angles of non-pre rendered backgrounds.

Reply 2 of 6, by therealdadbeard

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Ichisich wrote on 2024-11-30, 08:59:

Force filter only if not point sampled

But I would question the benefit of anisotropic filtering in this kind of games in general.
There are practically no oblique viewing angles of non-pre rendered backgrounds.

Like I said filtering in this game is only applied for some reason when AF is enable. Other games in the same style do not behave the same.

Results in black lines either way as scaling seem to not be pixel perfect.

Reply 3 of 6, by Ichisich

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therealdadbeard wrote on 2024-12-01, 18:58:

Like I said filtering in this game is only applied for some reason when AF is enable.

Which kind of filtering do you mean?

I tested the game:
Those black lines only appeared when I forced AF. I used Stretched, keep Aspect Ratio so dgvoodoo handles the scaling.

My Recommendation:
Unfortunately, the game is 800x600 so you won't find an integer resolution with either 1080p/1440p/2160p.
I used 4xResolution and then downscaled it back to my desktop resolution. I would not recommend lanczos resampling, as the background images are heavily compressed and sharp resampling filter overblow the artifacts. Stick to bilinear or bicubic.

Reply 4 of 6, by therealdadbeard

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Ichisich wrote on 2024-12-01, 19:25:
Which kind of filtering do you mean? […]
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therealdadbeard wrote on 2024-12-01, 18:58:

Like I said filtering in this game is only applied for some reason when AF is enable.

Which kind of filtering do you mean?

I tested the game:
Those black lines only appeared when I forced AF. I used Stretched, keep Aspect Ratio so dgvoodoo handles the scaling.

My Recommendation:
Unfortunately, the game is 800x600 so you won't find an integer resolution with either 1080p/1440p/2160p.
I used 4xResolution and then downscaled it back to my desktop resolution. I would not recommend lanczos resampling, as the background images are heavily compressed and sharp resampling filter overblow the artifacts. Stick to bilinear or bicubic.

For me the lines appear on any filtering options. Using same scaling as you.

Did you just select 4x for the resolution in the dx tab? Or did you choose something else.

Whatever I choose those lines are instantly there.

Reply 5 of 6, by Ichisich

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therealdadbeard wrote on 2024-12-02, 03:23:

Did you just select 4x for the resolution in the dx tab? Or did you choose something else.

For clarification, the black lines appear with any Texture Filtering option, which also affects non mip-maps.
This option is for textured polygons, not for pre-rendered images:

The attachment 1.png is no longer available

The Resampling option for the scaling filter is in the GeneralExt tab:

The attachment 3.png is no longer available

When it comes to scaling/resampling:
Native centered 800x600:

The attachment 4-.png is no longer available

4xResolution -> bilinear downscale to 1080p:

The attachment 5-.png is no longer available

Blowing up the resolution with a non integer factor will always lead to additional artifacts and mismatches, when it comes to pre-rendered images.
Pixel perfect 1440x1080p:

The attachment 6-.png is no longer available

Conclusion:
The 4xResolution with a bilinear downscale produces an almost identical picture to native with slightly elevated background artifacts but vastly superior 3D elements.
Alternatively, you can use the native resolution upscaled with lanczos and then use a crt-shaders.
The higher resolution the 3D elements become, a mix of 3D/2D elements can lead to a perceived mismatch:

Watch in fullscreen, especially the crt image as it depends on alignment, to see the differences clearly.

4xResolution -> bilinear downscale to 1080p:
The protag and npc stick subjectively out and image artifacts are somewhat visible:
RblJPS3.png

Native 800x600 -> lanczos upscale to 1080p:
Now the 3D and 2D subjectively match, but the 3D elements look shabby and the original image artifacts are slightly visible:
0BznKnF.png

Native 800x600 -> lanczos upscale to 1080p -> customized CRT-Royale shader:
It won't be to everyone's taste, but it produces a homogenous picture that hides most compression artifacts without any scaling and filter issues:
I500EKd.png

Reply 6 of 6, by therealdadbeard

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Ichisich wrote on 2024-12-02, 09:39:
For clarification, the black lines appear with any Texture Filtering option, which also affects non mip-maps. This option is for […]
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therealdadbeard wrote on 2024-12-02, 03:23:

Did you just select 4x for the resolution in the dx tab? Or did you choose something else.

For clarification, the black lines appear with any Texture Filtering option, which also affects non mip-maps.
This option is for textured polygons, not for pre-rendered images:

The attachment 1.png is no longer available

The Resampling option for the scaling filter is in the GeneralExt tab:

Yeah I am looking for a a way to have the prerendered backround filtered and have all the items that are projected on top to scale correctly without seeing those black lines but I guess that is completely impossible unless there is specific code that defines how it has to scale.

But thanks anyway for that in depht comparison.