VOGONS


First post, by Guld

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I'm using a Shuttle HOT-419 motherboard https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/shuttle-hot-419, set up with a 486 DX4/100 MHz (33MHz bus speed).

Two different video cards, both with 2 MB of memory on them, are having the same issues.
Cirrus GD5428
Cirrus GD5429

I see similar issues with not getting a usable video output from both DOS and Windows:

DOS
- using UNIVBE, recognizes 2 MB of memory on both cards, using UNICENTR just to check the modes.
- Anything using over 1 MB of video memory produces an unstable image

- Also tried the Cirrus VESA drivers and X-VESA to try setting videos mode that use more than 1 MB.
- Same issues, video modes beyond e.g. 1024x768x8 do not work.

Windows 98SE
- Using PowerStrip, or the normal windows resolution setting tool, I can not get a good video output using > 1MB
- At first I thought it was using a vertical rate that my monitor didn't like, but I've selected the correct ones with PowerStrip and it does not help.

One thing I found that did allow me to at least use 1024x768 was setting the CPU RDY# Signal delay configuration to Setup 2 which is listed as "33MHz or 50MHz system clock with slow VL-bus devices". Without this set, max I can seem to do is 800x600x8. Not sure if it's related.

I've tried other jumper settings for CPU ADS# delay, and VESA Local Bus speed and high speed write wait states but those had no effect.

I've also tried a spare set of additional memory for the cards which doesn't seem to help. It seems unlikely that all 3 sets of video ram chips I have are bad, but I have no way to test them directly.

I've tried BIOS settings which seem like they might be related but saw no changes in the behavior.

Any ideas? I find it peculiar that 2 different video cards exhibit the same issues which makes me think it's possibly a motherboard issue?

Motherboard and RAM have been through >8 hours of testing with memtest86+ so I want to say the system is generally stable.

Reply 1 of 5, by Grzyb

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

1. More than 1 MB on GD542x only adds INTERLACED modes - does your monitor support it? Most (or even all?) LCD monitors don't.

2. Is the second megabyte of the same type as the first? FPM is probably necessary, not EDO.

Kiełbasa smakuje najlepiej, gdy przysmażysz ją laserem!

Reply 2 of 5, by clb

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Guld wrote on 2024-12-30, 20:09:

- Anything using over 1 MB of video memory produces an unstable image

It would be a bit uncommon that memory usage would affect whether the video signal sync is stable or unstable. Rather, it is more likely that the pixel clock, hsync and vsync rates and the timing geometry of the video mode is what affects whether the signal is stable or not.

The video mode 1280x1024 at 16 colors requires 1280*1024 / 2 = 655,360 bytes of memory.

Whereas 1280x1024 at 256 colors requires 1,310,720 bytes, which is more than 1,048,576 bytes (1MB limit).

So you can try with the 1280x1024 at 16 colors mode to verify this memory usage hypothesis. If that mode doesn't sync, then it is likely not the memory usage amount that is causing the problem.

If 1280x1024 with 16 colors syncs, but 1280x1024 with 256 colors does not sync, then it would lend validity to the issue being something memory usage/memory bandwidth related.

Like was mentioned above, I think CL-GD5428/9 can do 1280x1024 video mode only as interlaced. For 1024x768 it should be able to do either interlaced or noninterlaced.

So if 1024x768 works for you and you are not sure if that was interlaced or noninterlaced, you can try using the Cirrus Logic CLMODE utility to force the refresh rate of that video mode to be interlaced. This allows testing whether your LCD/CRT can sync to interlaced modes.

Reply 3 of 5, by Guld

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Ah...thanks, I didn't know about CLmode, that helps because it displays some info about interlaced modes (which I had completely forgotten about).

Neither 1280x1024x4 (16 color) or 1280x1024x8 (256 color) work.

Neither does 1024x768...unless I set it to a monitor which will cause it to output non-interlaced...Then I can see the output (working on an older LCD panel here).

So that looks like what is going on and explains why some of my equipment seems confused about the vertical rate when one of these interlaced modes comes up. So...now to see if I can get the interlaced modes to work via any of my video equipment 😁.

Anyone know of a good converter that can handle the interlaces inputs and output something useful? If I can figure out anything with the equipment I've got I'll post something.

Thanks!

Reply 4 of 5, by clb

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I have developed CRT Terminator Digital VGA Feature Card ISA DV1000 to handle interlaced video modes. It displays them as progressivized. For example, on a Diamond SpeedSTAR 64 (CL-GD5434), Windows 3.1 in interlaced 1280x1024 256 colors mode captures like follows:

The attachment WIN3.1-1280x1024i-256c.png is no longer available

although it should be noted that such use case is overclocking the Feature Connector way beyond the original VESA rated limits. Nevertheless, with a good quality VGA card, it can work.

Reply 5 of 5, by Guld

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
clb wrote on 2024-12-30, 22:27:

I have developed CRT Terminator Digital VGA Feature Card ISA DV1000 to handle interlaced video modes. It displays them as progressivized. For example, on a Diamond SpeedSTAR 64 (CL-GD5434), Windows 3.1 in interlaced 1280x1024 256 colors mode captures like follows:

although it should be noted that such use case is overclocking the Feature Connector way beyond the original VESA rated limits. Nevertheless, with a good quality VGA card, it can work.

Thanks for sharing! I had run into your card once before and it certainly looks interesting!