VOGONS


First post, by ThePfhor486

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Hi Guys,

I really need the communities help with this one.

For the past month, I've been acquiring many vintage parts for the 486 build I always wanted, many of which are new old stock.
While testing the components, I am unable to boot from any of my floppy drives, all of which are good on other systems. I am sure my cables are connected correctly to both the drive and controller. I've also checked that the controller jumpers are configured correctly and I can't see any issues. Drives are configured in the BIOS. When I boot the system with only the video card and controller connected to the board, I get a seek test from the drives and no disk errors from POST. After the system POSTs, it tries to read the known good MS-DOS install disk, and gives any of the following errors:

Disk I/O error
Non-system boot disk
Disk boot error

I did happen to get a "Starting MS-DOS" prompt once by hooking up the 3 1/2" Drive A: improperly behind the twist in the cable, but it stopped attempting to read the disk and the system hung. Otherwise, I just get any of the above errors. I've also attempted clearing the CMOS after changing the battery, and played around with several BIOS settings. The drive tests good in other systems as does the cable. I've also tried different ISA slots on the motherboard to no avail. I changed bus speeds, disabling L1 and L2 cache, disabling everything except the FDD, disabling every IRQ except the floppy, disabled video BIOS shadow and enabled floppy drive swap. No combination of these have helped.
Here are the specs of what is currently connected to the system.

Motherboard: EFA 4DMS-HL3G
CPU: Am486 DX4-100 (A80486DX4-100SV8B)
L2 cache: 256kb
Memory: 32 MB 2x16mb FPM (4Mx36)
Video card: Western Digital WD90C33-ZZ VLB
Controller: DFI MIO-550 ISA
HDD: Western Digital Caviar 33200
Power supply: New AT replacement PSU 300W
FDD: 1.44mb 3 1/2"

I'm hoping there is a conflict somewhere, I would really hate to think that there is an issue with the controller, after all this is a new old stock part never used before. I can provide any pictures if anyone requests. Any input would be helpful, I am going insane trying to solve this issue. Thank you!

Reply 1 of 6, by DaveDDS

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I'd normally suspect bad/dirty drives (are the drives know good/working, how
exhaustively did you test them on another system)? If that were the case I
would recomment giving then a good cleaning - my ImageDisk has a pretty good
"clean heads" function where it will "scrub" the heads back and forth on a
cleaning disk.

But... The fact it got a bit further in booting when the drive was connected
to the untwisted part of the cable raises some other questions:

Are you sure the drives are jumpered correcly. The standard PC configuration
only supports two floppy drives, and the BOTH have to be jumpered as the
second drive (1 if 0,1,2,5) or 2 if (1,2,3,4). The actual select driving
it is determined by the position on the cable. (0-1)A: if at the end past
the twist, or (1-2)B: if at the more central untwisted connector.

Does the motherboard you are using support swapping drives/booting from B:
I've seem some that can swap the drives, maybe yours is doing that... but
it would think it would try the normal config first, and the drive at the end
of the cable would be tried first. The fact that yours got further as B:
seems very unlikely.

Any chance your mainboard doesn't use a "normal" cable?

You mention "controller" - is this a separate floppy controller? Is there
an FDC on the mainboard? (if yes, make sure it's disabled when using the
ISA one, and/or try using just it instead).

Sounds like you have another system that can accept floppy drives... try
booting these drives and cable on that system - that would at least let you
know the are working and configured correctly.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 2 of 6, by jakethompson1

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Is that CPU running as write-through or write-back?
I have one of these boards and it needed minor modifications for L1 WB to work.

Reply 3 of 6, by DaveDDS

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That's a good point .. if might not even be floppy related, perhaps the system is dying for some other reason.

Although.. if it's passing all the POST tests...

I'd suggest setting everything tp be as simple as possible, lowest speed, no (or as simple as possible) cache,
anything not absolutely needed to boot from floppy disabled etc.

If you can get it to work in a simpler configuration, then you can work at figuring out what is causing problem.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 4 of 6, by jakethompson1

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If L1 WB isn't working right, then L1 invalidation/flushing will not work right, and one of the first places where this shows up is ISA DMA including floppy.

The situation is described in Jan Steunebrink's upgrade page here: http://www.steunebrink.info/amd5x86.htm where it talks about needing a DOS 5 or 6 floppy.

Reply 6 of 6, by ThePfhor486

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Hi all,

Many thanks for the input here. I've been lurking in this forum for 15 years and knew if I posted, the community would help!
So I have finally fixed this issue. It appears a couple different things were causing the erratic behavior.

It would appear most of my floppy cables are beginning to go bad. They worked when installed in their respective systems, but then when removed to check on the build in question, they either wouldn't work at all, or would display erratic behavior. My guess is one of the leads is going bad, and reorienting the cable is enough to get it to malfunction. I did manage to get one of my cables to test good across all of my systems and in different orientations.

The other issue was mentioned here as well. After disabling only the internal L1 cache (I didn't see a setting in the BIOS to set to WB), the system had no issues reading or writing to the drive. Now I believe I read somewhere this can be fixed using a bodge wire, if anyone here has a diagram or pictures if this repair, please send it my way. Otherwise, I am satisfied to resolve the floppy issue. The headaches were real with this one.